Speculation: Armchair GM - Offseason Thread (Summer Edition)

[OldGoaltender]

At this point I still like Tarasov more than Elvis, and now, probably Greaves more than Tarasov.

The people who think it’s “ok” or “acceptable” to just give Elvis another chance, you understand that the success or failure of the entire team rests on his shoulders correct??

Simply letting Elvis “work through things” or “giving him another chance” should not be looked at the same as guys like Roslovic or Peeke. There’s too much at stake.

Not only that, but, some of you continue to downplay the fact that’s he’s just not actually good and continue to blame everything on the defense, Larsen, and Legace. He’s NOT a young goalie. His technique SUCKS, his reactions SUCK, his angles SUCK, his composure SUCKS, his crease control/ positioning SUCKS. He is responsible for what he looks like in net, not the past coaches or the defense.

I understand the importance of the goaltender and I agree it’s the most pivotal and important position on the team, all you have to do is look how far Florida went in the playoffs with Bob in the net. Elvis scares me because a goaltender needs to have a very short memory much like a cornerback in football and I’m not certain how Elvis is right now. He has the tools and the talent but can he play to that level and potential. He needs to be on a short leash and if we can upgrade the position you do it.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

At this point I still like Tarasov more than Elvis, and now, probably Greaves more than Tarasov.

The people who think it’s “ok” or “acceptable” to just give Elvis another chance, you understand that the success or failure of the entire team rests on his shoulders correct??

Simply letting Elvis “work through things” or “giving him another chance” should not be looked at the same as guys like Roslovic or Peeke. There’s too much at stake.

Not only that, but, some of you continue to downplay the fact that’s he’s just not actually good and continue to blame everything on the defense, Larsen, and Legace. He’s NOT a young goalie. His technique SUCKS, his reactions SUCK, his angles SUCK, his composure SUCKS, his crease control/ positioning SUCKS. He is responsible for what he looks like in net, not the past coaches or the defense.

Yes, we all understand that. That’s the point of giving him this year. We’re not Carolina. We can afford a bad goaltending year this year IF it happens (not saying it definitely will).

But the best thing for the success of the CBJ of 2025-26 (when we will/should be Cup contenders) would be for Elvis to show this year that he does have it in him and isn’t a liability, and to not have to worry about buying him out or making an unfavorable trade this offseason, which would impact said 2025-26 CBJ. And we wouldn’t have to worry about finding an adequate goalie (which I’m not sure we have/will have in our system).

 

[DougKnowsBest]

i see no point in assuming a goalies performance from year to year will be consistent based on past performance.

they run so hot and cold, i think as a team you need to have 3 guys who you think "could get hot" .... let the year play out see who going at the end and ride it

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Looking at the list of UFA guys and making assumptions on who'd be OK with being your AHL vet/first call-up and thinking that plan for slotting a guy on the CBJ depth chart leaves out most of the guys who look any good to me.

I reiterate, for a new page, I'd rather see a 1B/time-share guy AND a guy like Jarmo has suggested is the plan.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The people who think it’s “ok” or “acceptable” to just give Elvis another chance, you understand that the success or failure of the entire team rests on his shoulders correct??

Simply letting Elvis “work through things” or “giving him another chance” should not be looked at the same as guys like Roslovic or Peeke. There’s too much at stake

I don’t think we have a choice. There’s no goalie market, he’s overpaid, and has a long term contract. If they could move on, they probably would have done it by now. The letting him work through it period was last year, and I think we’re beyond that.

So instead of beating a dead horse about how bad he is and how his technique sucks, they’re going to do whatever they can to make it work. So they brought in a coach that preaches puck possession, IE less chances against. They also improved the defense so that they will move the puck better when it’s in the zone. New coach will also have a new defensive strategy that you would think would be easier to understand or better for the goalie. If this doesn’t work I really don’t know where we go from here.

 

[thebus88]

Yes, we all understand that. That’s the point of giving him this year. We’re not Carolina. We can afford a bad goaltending year this year IF it happens (not saying it definitely will).

But the best thing for the success of the CBJ of 2025-26 (when we will/should be Cup contenders) would be for Elvis to show this year that he does have it in him and isn’t a liability, and to not have to worry about buying him out or making an unfavorable trade this offseason, which would impact said 2025-26 CBJ. And we wouldn’t have to worry about finding an adequate goalie (which I’m not sure we have/will have in our system).

We’ve had 3 TERRIBLE years in a row to learn what needed to be learned. You think Gaudreau (and all the other veterans, Jenner, etc) will be happy just pissing away these years??

I don’t understand the belief that we can go from terrible to good within a few years, without actually changing anything and not removing the problem players who actually make the team terrible.

 

[stevo61]

We’ve had 3 TERRIBLE years in a row to learn what needed to be learned. You think Gaudreau (and all the other veterans, Jenner, etc) will be happy just pissing away these years??

I don’t understand the belief that we can go from terrible to good within a few years, without actually changing anything and not removing the problem players who actually make the team terrible.

Adding Fantilli, Provorov, Severson, Texier, Voronkov and Babcock as coach is a small step above changing nothing I think

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

We’ve had 3 TERRIBLE years in a row to learn what needed to be learned. You think Gaudreau (and all the other veterans, Jenner, etc) will be happy just pissing away these years??

I don’t understand the belief that we can go from terrible to good within a few years, without actually changing anything and not removing the problem players who actually make the team terrible.

We got rid of the problem coach with no system that anyone could understand. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I'm convinced that you think this team will be magically competitive if and only if Elvis is gone from the team and that the other components have no bearing on the team success at this point.

New coach who will actually hold people accountable and demands structure will weed out players once their contracts are up or become moveable.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

Plus, they got a new goalie coach. Maybe they should see how that situation works out before Merzlikins is traded?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I don’t think we have a choice. There’s no goalie market, he’s overpaid, and has a long term contract. If they could move on, they probably would have done it by now. The letting him work through it period was last year, and I think we’re beyond that.

So instead of beating a dead horse about how bad he is and how his technique sucks, they’re going to do whatever they can to make it work. So they brought in a coach that preaches puck possession, IE less chances against. They also improved the defense so that they will move the puck better when it’s in the zone. New coach will also have a new defensive strategy that you would think would be easier to understand or better for the goalie. If this doesn’t work I really don’t know where we go from here.

I don't know that I agree last year was a letting him work through it period. maybe to an extent but the team defense makes things hard to work through.

I think a new goalie coach provide a whole world of opportunities to work through things. I honeslty don't think Manny was that good of a coach. I don't recall him being known for having good structure in his play like Backstrom did. If goalies need a fresh start, this is it.

 

[thebus88]

Adding Fantilli, Provorov, Severson, Texier, Voronkov and Babcock as coach is a small step above changing nothing I think

All these people have NO IMPACT on how good Elvis is as a goalie. This is the NHL. Manny Legace had a MINIMAL impact on Elvis, as did Larsen, as will Babcock, as will ANY NHL/goalie coach will have on an NHL player.

Sure , the defense is better. That will help. THE GOALIE ISN’T BETTER. He’s not going to be better, because the players in front of him are better, or even if the “results” are somewhat better. He’s the same goalie he’s always been, and he always will be. That’s my main point I’ve always attempted to make. People act as if he was 20 years old when he came over, and he still has room for “growth”…..he doesn’t.

We got rid of the problem coach with no system that anyone could understand. Rome wasn't built in a day.

To be clear, that’s 2 “problem coaches” in 3 years. Maybe we should start to look at the group/core of players??

You guys have NO IDEA what Larsen or Torts’ “systems” actually were. Torts’ “systems” literally changed year to year based on player personnel, and many times mid season.

Brad Larsen can DO NOTHING to help Elvis Merzlikins stop pucks. He was given a roster that couldn’t execute ANYTHING he wanted them to do anyway. Not to mention he and Torts were looked at as almost opposite styles, 1 being “open” and the other being “overly structured”, and both apparently were not the correct way.

Not only that, but, we aren’t talking line combos, time on ice, PP or on ice strategy, we’re talking about a GOALIE STOPPING PUCKS. Again, Legace had a TINY amount of impact on what Elvis looked like the last few years, Larsen, ZERO IMPACT.

 

[thebus88]

We got rid of the problem coach with no system that anyone could understand. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I'm convinced that you think this team will be magically competitive if and only if Elvis is gone from the team and that the other components have no bearing on the team success at this point.

New coach who will actually hold people accountable and demands structure will weed out players once their contracts are up or become moveable.

Merzlikins, Laine, Peeke, Roslovic, Kuraly can all go.

Anywhere for whatever. And the team would be good.

The contracts/cap hits and roles given to these guys is crazy to me. We had a past coach who did all the same things as our new coach.

 

[stevo61]

All these people have NO IMPACT on how good Elvis is as a goalie. This is the NHL. Manny Legace had a MINIMAL impact on Elvis, as did Larsen, as will Babcock, as will ANY NHL/goalie coach will have on an NHL player.

Sure , the defense is better. That will help. THE GOALIE ISN’T BETTER. He’s not going to be better, because the players in front of him are better, or even if the “results” are somewhat better. He’s the same goalie he’s always been, and he always will be. That’s my main point I’ve always attempted to make. People act as if he was 20 years old when he came over, and he still has room for “growth”…..he doesn’t.




To be clear, that’s 2 “problem coaches” in 3 years. Maybe we should start to look at the group/core of players??

You guys have NO IDEA what Larsen or Torts’ “systems” actually were. Torts’ “systems” literally changed year to year based on player personnel, and many times mid season.

Brad Larsen can DO NOTHING to help Elvis Merzlikins stop pucks. He was given a roster that couldn’t execute ANYTHING he wanted them to do anyway. Not to mention he and Torts were looked at as almost opposite styles, 1 being “open” and the other being “overly structured”, and both apparently were not the correct way.

Not only that, but, we aren’t talking line combos, time on ice, PP or on ice strategy, we’re talking about a GOALIE STOPPING PUCKS. Again, Legace had a TINY amount of impact on what Elvis looked like the last few years, Larsen, ZERO IMPACT.

I think you underestimate goalies and the changes they can make. People were screaming to get rid of Bob and he came back and won a 2nd Vezina. Tim Thomas was a bad goalie, disappeared and then came back as Hasek 2.0. Fleury has been insanely up and down for his career.

Merzlikins has shown something, he didnt "luck" into shutouts thats nonsense. The defense will help the goaltending and also the offense which keeps the puck out of the zone more. Theyve changed plenty. I would be surprised if they dont add a veteran but I will comfortably say the odds of Merzlikins turning things around is more than 0%

 

[BB88]

We’ve had 3 TERRIBLE years in a row to learn what needed to be learned. You think Gaudreau (and all the other veterans, Jenner, etc) will be happy just pissing away these years??

I don’t understand the belief that we can go from terrible to good within a few years, without actually changing anything and not removing the problem players who actually make the team terrible.

You’ve missed the entire offseason?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Monstershockey]

I have no problem keeping Elvis. They gave him a big contract, so maybe he can live up to it. I also had no problem with the goalie coach, but agree that a new face could help, depends if Elvis listens to him, or keeps deciding he knows what is best for himself. I think Elvis was more of the problem than Legace, but you have to keep the guy you paid big money to, rather than renew the contract of the goalie coach. He would be easier and cheaper to replace.

Lagace was a good coach here. While the D was bad last year, we still had a guy post a .911 save pct. behind said D. The work he did with Kivi was really good, considering where Kivi's game had fallen to. Plus Greaves has shown a lot of improvement in his game, and while Jet may have worked more with Theissen, Lagace was still coming here to help out, too.

I think it was more what happened between Elvis and Legace regarding Kivi than their abilities as a coach and goalie that led to having to split them up.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Not only that, but, we aren’t talking line combos, time on ice, PP or on ice strategy, we’re talking about a GOALIE STOPPING PUCKS. Again, Legace had a TINY amount of impact on what Elvis looked like the last few years, Larsen, ZERO IMPACT.

I'm tried of going round and round over these things but this statement is just ridiculous to me.

 

[Toe Pick]

EDIT > Tweet was a dupe as didn't see this was already posted.

But definitely sounds like Jarmo still hammering away on some potential hockey trade(s). That is good news as while the roster is no doubt improved -- it still needs work.

 

[VT]

Merzlikins, Laine, Peeke, Roslovic, Kuraly môžu ísť všetci.

Kdekoľvek na čokoľvek. A tím by bol dobrý.

Zmluva/cap hity a role, ktoré dostali títo chlapci, sú pre mňa šialené. Mali sme bývalého trénera, ktorý robil všetky rovnaké veci ako náš nový tréner.

I'll cut it short. Trade these players for a 7th round draft pick and we don't have to do anything more.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I have no problem keeping Elvis. They gave him a big contract, so maybe he can live up to it. I also had no problem with the goalie coach, but agree that a new face could help, depends if Elvis listens to him, or keeps deciding he knows what is best for himself. I think Elvis was more of the problem than Legace, but you have to keep the guy you paid big money to, rather than renew the contract of the goalie coach. He would be easier and cheaper to replace.

Lagace was a good coach here. While the D was bad last year, we still had a guy post a .911 save pct. behind said D. The work he did with Kivi was really good, considering where Kivi's game had fallen to. Plus Greaves has shown a lot of improvement in his game, and while Jet may have worked more with Theissen, Lagace was still coming here to help out, too.

I think it was more what happened between Elvis and Legace regarding Kivi than their abilities as a coach and goalie that led to having to split them up.

I think the Elvis/Manny combo was doomed from July 4, 2021.

Manny might be a fine coach in the right situation but in the same manner as Larsen, he was too much of a player friend who got steamrolled and not enough of a coach pushing them to get better. Especially after that date.

I just think it is part of the whole attitude in the locker room that needed to be removed. I can't blame players too much if a coach lets them get away with it. I'm betting the new faces will see immediate results from those who did get away with it as long as they do their job.

 

[KJ Dangler]

At this point I still like Tarasov more than Elvis, and now, probably Greaves more than Tarasov.

The people who think it’s “ok” or “acceptable” to just give Elvis another chance, you understand that the success or failure of the entire team rests on his shoulders correct??

Simply letting Elvis “work through things” or “giving him another chance” should not be looked at the same as guys like Roslovic or Peeke. There’s too much at stake.

Not only that, but, some of you continue to downplay the fact that’s he’s just not actually good and continue to blame everything on the defense, Larsen, and Legace. He’s NOT a young goalie. His technique SUCKS, his reactions SUCK, his angles SUCK, his composure SUCKS, his crease control/ positioning SUCKS. He is responsible for what he looks like in net, not the past coaches or the defense.

And with all that said , Elvis career stats nearly mimic Korpis save % , and GAA , and that’s with last years brutal #s of a 4.23 GAA , and .876 save % massively driving his numbers to be in line with Korpis .. Elvis has a career save % of .906.. Korpi has a career save % of .904…

Elvis has a career GAA of 3.13 .. Korpi 3.01…

I’m sure we will hear Korpi was hurt for a few years , right ? Welp, Elvis is a different kind of hurt , and you can tell from statements he’s made , that it wasn’t behind him .

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I don’t understand the belief that we can go from terrible to good within a few years, without actually changing anything and not removing the problem players who actually make the team terrible.

no one is saying this. they've changed a ton of stuff. you're arguing with nobody.

this offseason (which is far from done) has been transformative for the roster.

New	Out
Babcock (veteran coach w/elite track record) Fantilli (franchise center) Severson (top four vet RHD) Provorov (top four vet LHD) Voronkov (physical bottom sixer) Jiricek (potential franchise RHD) McKown (intriguing forward prospect) New goalie coach	Larsen (inexperienced coach in over his head) Gavin Bayreuther (AHL defenseman) 22nd overall pick

that's on top of guys who were out of the lineup for long stretches (if not the entirety) of last year + planned (but not required) growth for some of the young guys on the roster.

Returning	Improving via development
Werenski - top pair LHD Bean - bottom four LHD Jenner - top six forward Texier - top nine wing Danforth - bottom six 'glue guy'	Johnson Marchenko Boqvist Sillinger Chinakhov (also fits 'returning')

plus two star forwards (i'm counting laine here, your absurd views on him have been discussed ad nauseam so let's just keep it moving) and some solid vets at the bottom of the lineup.

they don't need all of those moves/developments to hit immediately to be significantly better, either. and they're not done making moves yet:

• peeke likely out
• roslovic likely out
• robinson likely out
• veteran center (i.e. kuzy or hertl) possibly in
• veteran backup goalie likely in at some point

yes, goaltending is still a concern. literally nobody is disagreeing with you on that point. but vegas just won a cup with their fifth-string goalie and the eastern conference winner began the playoffs with an AHL goalie in net and finished with an overpaid, oft-ineffective bobrovsky between the pipes. even if elvis still sucks, they can just bench him and still be a better team than they have been the last few years.

Elvis has a career GAA of 3.13 .. Korpi 3.01…

I’m sure we will hear Korpi was hurt for a few years , right ? Welp, Elvis is a different kind of hurt , and you can tell from statements he’s made , that it wasn’t behind him .

also elvis has very much been physically hurt as well at times over the last two seasons

 

[thebus88]

And with all that said , Elvis career stats nearly mimic Korpis save % , and GAA , and that’s with last years brutal #s of a 4.23 GAA , and .876 save % massively driving his numbers to be in line with Korpis .. Elvis has a career save % of .906.. Korpi has a career save % of .904…

Elvis has a career GAA of 3.13 .. Korpi 3.01…

I’m sure we will hear Korpi was hurt for a few years , right ? Welp, Elvis is a different kind of hurt , and you can tell from statements he’s made , that it wasn’t behind him .

Haha, and if any of you want to go back a couple years I PREDICTED their “career numbers” would end up being very similar very soon, while the VAST MAJORITY were still claiming Korpisalo was barely an NHL goalie and Elvis had potential to win end of the year trophy’s in the NHL. Many literally called me crazy, and a slew of other things. Yet, now what??

Now Elvis’ “BAD” seasons are AN EXCUSE for his poor career numbers?? What!?! Does Korpisalo not get this same outlook? And yes, Korpisalo needed hip surgery and was seemingly attempting to play through things for a couple years. That has to be taken into account.

But, another thing I need to seemingly REITERATE for everyone, Elvis wasn’t the only person to play with or be friends with Kivlenieks. Korpisalo played with him going all the way back to his 1st year in the organization, in 2017-18 in Cleveland, when Elvis was still over in Europe. While not knowing just how “close” each guy was with each other, I think it’s ridiculous that only Elvis gets to use the death of Kivlenieks as the reason for his poor play.

 

[thebus88]

I'll cut it short. Trade these players for a 7th round draft pick and we don't have to do anything more.

Kuraly/Peeke/Merzlikins, yes.

The cap money be damned. Just OFF the ice.

Laine/Roslovic, while not the “worst forwards” on the team, are not the right fit with the remaining roster, and their cap money ($10+ million) could be spent on essentially any other position or type of player with a similar cap hit, and the team would be in a BETTER POSITION.

 

[thebus88]

I think the Elvis/Manny combo was doomed from July 4, 2021.

Manny might be a fine coach in the right situation but in the same manner as Larsen, he was too much of a player friend who got steamrolled and not enough of a coach pushing them to get better. Especially after that date.

I just think it is part of the whole attitude in the locker room that needed to be removed. I can't blame players too much if a coach lets them get away with it. I'm betting the new faces will see immediate results from those who did get away with it as long as they do their job.

Why do you think Torts didn’t want to coach the CBJ anymore, but, would coach the Philadelphia Flyers??

WHY do you think Larsen, or his apparent style of coaching, was brought in after Tortorella??

Anyone feel free to answer….