Speculation: Armchair GM - Offseason Thread (Summer Edition)

[CBJWerenski8]

This conversation is nauseating because it’s happened 100000 times.

Seth jones and Torts DO NOT MATTER At all to the jackets anymore. Zero. They are memories of the past. Fond memories sure, but memories.

Move. The f***. On

 

[thebus88]

Citation needed

We’ve played this game before many times. Turns into a semantics argument. Tell me a flat number what “majority” would be and we’ll go from there. I’ll wait.

The point is people (I don’t have the numbers) were saying Merzlikins had a future as a #1G and Korpisalo was barely backup quality. 1 name drop of Vezina is too much.

This conversation is nauseating because it’s happened 100000 times.

Fine, go make the “How many goals will Laine score” poll thread to liven things up….

This conversation is nauseating because it’s happened 100000 times.

Seth jones and Torts DO NOT MATTER At all to the jackets anymore. Zero. They are memories of the past. Fond memories sure, but memories.

Move. The f***. On

Same front office making the same f***ed decisions.

 

[ClevelandJacketFan]

Look, you can call things “unsupported assertion’s” all you want.

lol

Seth Jones and Torts are so far in the past, and honestly not good enough to be crying over spilled milk.

If anything, we got the best versions of both of them, and now are better off without them.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Fine, go make the “How many goals will Laine score” poll thread to liven things up….


Same front office making the same f***ed decisions.

At least Patrik Laine is relevant to the current roster. Should we discuss David Vyborny? Whats Adam Foote up to these days? Because they're as relevant to the CBJ as Jones and Torts are now.

At least bitching about the front office is relevant.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I could see that, but Legace was just his coach, not his employer. He has no say on Elvis' employment with Columbus. I am sure there are a lot of coaches throughout sports where coaches and players are close, or related.

He was in a position of power over him. I see it as as an easy way to abuse a friendship and it makes it really hard for a friend tell another friend what to do if the mindset isn’t right. I’m not sure I know of a lot of coaches who have their players come stay at their house.

Such a relationship can work. I just don’t think it did here and most situations I think it will fail.

 

[thebus88]

At least Patrik Laine is relevant to the current roster. Should we discuss David Vyborny? Whats Adam Foote up to these days? Because they're as relevant to the CBJ as Jones and Torts are now.

At least bitching about the front office is relevant.

That’s all complaining about Jones and Torts being gone has ever actually been about. And we’re talking 2-3 years ago these guys were here, and we already fired another coach and the defense has been shit. ITS ALL RELEVANT.

I’m not the one spouting “conspiracy theory” or favorite player nonsense, I’m attempting to make related points and have to spell them out, then get ATTACKED for having to spell the shit out.

But, it’s like people only find certain (or more accurately…different) things in the past are “acceptable” to talk about or “relevant”, even though they have the same impact on the future and/or things to take away from them.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Same front office making the same f***ed decisions.

This statement is as true as saying the same front office that acquired and hired the two individuals in question.

 

[VT]

Answer the questions. The point is that people think Torts wasn’t the right type of coach and Larsen wasn’t the right type of coach. WHO’S THE RIGHT TYPE!?!

Right now it's Mike Babcock. Torts is a great coach, one of the best in the world and I was very sorry to see him go. It's just that Babcock prefers to play with the puck, transitioning to the OZ using the pass, which suits the team better overall in that lineup. And the important thing is that he has authority. Players can't, as they say in Slovakia, jump on his head (of course, the last thing also applies to Torts).

Still toTorts. Let's start with the fact that he wanted to leave after the season where we last played in the PO so far. Players like Foligno and Jones talked him into staying until the end of his contract. We also don't know how much the departures of Panarin and Bobrovsky influenced his decision, as well as the change in style of play, as Jarmo wanted to build a team more focused on puck control.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

That’s all complaining about Jones and Torts being gone has ever actually been about. And we’re talking 2-3 years ago these guys were here, and we already fired another coach and the defense has been shit. ITS ALL RELEVANT.

I’m not the one spouting “conspiracy theory” or favorite player nonsense, I’m attempting to make related points and have to spell them out, then get ATTACKED for having to spell the shit out.

But, it’s like people only find certain (or more accurately…different) things in the past are “acceptable” to talk about or “relevant”, even though they have the same impact on the future and/or things to take away from them.

Literally only you bring up conspiracy theories or the thought of them being involved in this. I'm not belittling your points either, I just wish it was about things I found relevant or having to do anything with the team now. If you truly want to have a discussion about the front office, go bump the Jarmo thread.

You get "attacked" because you say the same shit over and over again. We get it. Sing a new tune. Why does every conversation you get involved in/create so hostile? Because thats how you come across in every single post. You point out how f***ing dumb everyone else is, and say how right you are. Gee, I wonder why you're so "targeted" by other posters here. Call it "group think" or whatever but if you just made your points and backed them up, people wouldn't fight with you all the time. Yet you make accusations and make OTHER people back them up rather than YOU doing so. You just made a whole post assuming Jones would stay here if we got Caleb, with literally nothing to back that up other than the fact Chicago did so that MUST mean it would have been true here too, even though it ignores so many variables.

You wanted us to keep Torts and Jones. Cool. The team didn't end up doing so. You act like us on HFBoards made the decision. Yet every chance you get you turn the conversations back to them. Some people want to move on and discuss things that pertain to the present and future of the team, not 3 years ago and if we would be better off with these guys.

These were all "relevant" conversations 3 maybe 2 years ago. Now? They do nothing. If I recall correctly most fans wanted to keep Jones anyway. What good does talking about having Jones and Torts do for us now? It's like you want to live in a Marvel movie where we can see what would happen in this Multiverse. We can't. In regards to pointing out the management staff, nobody brings them up because as far as we know (and you too!) both people WANTED TO LEAVE. So what can management do?

Would we be better? I don't know. Neither do you.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people here do find this relevant and rewarding to talk about and I should shut up and sit on the sidelines. But until then, I'm going to speak up for, you know, the current club and outlook rather than what could have been or should have been.

 

[stevo61]

I say it everytime the discussion comes up but Torts left, he was not fired.

Other than that Im glad players wanted out now that the dust has settled. We are set up significantly better than if we had a couple high end guys and just trying to patch holes to keep it a playoff team. This forced Jarmo to build a foundation of a team that can be more

 

[thebus88]

This statement is as true as saying the same front office that acquired and hired the two individuals in question.

Same f***ed decisions, recently. And it’s not as if each fan will like each move, or that they will consistently actually be “good” or “bad” decisions.

Those 2 guys were instrumental during the CBJs most successful years. Everyone else adds their own bias and opinions regarding WHY these guys decided to leave, but, nobody truly knows. In other markets, the media or fans WOULD ask.

To say things or decisions that happened 3 years ago aren’t relevant, especially after another coach has been fired in such a short time, is not accurate, IMO.

Right now it's Mike Babcock. Torts is a great coach, one of the best in the world and I was very sorry to see him go. It's just that Babcock prefers to play with the puck, transitioning to the OZ using the pass, which suits the team better overall in that lineup. And the important thing is that he has authority. Players can't, as they say in Slovakia, jump on his head (of course, the last thing also applies to Torts).

Safe Is Death

Means what to you??

Neither Torts his last year, nor Larsen had ADEQUATE personnel to have a “good” or “successful” team.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Same f***ed decisions, recently. And it’s not as if each fan will like each move, or that they will consistently actually be “good” or “bad” decisions.

Those 2 guys were instrumental during the CBJs most successful years. Everyone else adds their own bias and opinions regarding WHY these guys decided to leave, but, nobody truly knows. In other markets, the media or fans WOULD ask.

To say things or decisions that happened 3 years ago aren’t relevant, especially after another coach has been fired in such a short time, is not accurate, IMO.


Safe Is Death

Means what to you??

Neither Torts his last year, nor Larsen had ADEQUATE personnel to have a “good” or “successful” team.

I agree that EVERYONE adds their biases to their opinions on matters such as those and that no one except the immediate parties knows why they happened.

 

[VT]

Safe Is Death

Means what to you??

Neither Torts his last year, nor Larsen had ADEQUATE personnel to have a “good” or “successful” team.

I disagree. Besides, Lars didn't seem to have authority, which is pretty significant.
But either way Torts is no longer here. It makes me angry too, I liked him a lot, I hope Babs will be at least as good as him.

 

[Viqsi]

Look, you can call things “unsupported assertion’s” all you want. The number of fans favoring Elvis and the TERRIBLE things said about Korpisalo for YEARS was ridiculous and laughable. Some may need hindsight, I said it THEN.

Whether the 2 things are “directly” related is another thing, but, it’s not so much that they didn’t like individual certain players, so much so as they probably didn’t like the conversations they had with Jarmo regarding the types of players they were bringing in and building around.

I’m completely convinced that Jones would have re-signed with the CBJ if Jarmo would have went out an spent MINIMAL assets to acquire his brother. That’s why he essentially had a “change of heart” somewhat quickly and informed the team he wouldn’t re-sign, but, would so in a place like CHI who was at a similar stage in building a good team. People talk as if he wouldn’t commit to the CBJ, when I look at it that the CBJ/Jarmo wouldn’t commit to him.

Not only that, do you honestly believe that Jones and Torts, or any other coach and any other star player on another team likes every guy on his team?? Wouldn’t your relationship with your teammates or players impact your feelings on staying with a team?? That’s a “conspiracy theory”?? Do you believe that no player or coach has talked to management about a similar thing??

I think you're following motivated reasoning based on trying to rationalize the loss of guys you liked and thought were good for the team (that last is no big stretch, as I ultimately felt the same way about those same guys and I'm pretty sure that's also true of most folks here, occasional bad-take hateposts by jerks who couldn't get over actually playing defense notwithstanding). It's not dishonesty per se (I'm quite certain you're sincere; that's not under question IMO), but it's, in my assessment, insufficiently objective, and you kind of keep nailing the back of your hand to your forehead and griping about how Nobody Ever Understands What I Saw and it makes you a bit of a target. Which is frustrating on multiple levels for all concerned.

And yeah, you do get a few attacks out of the blue as a result, because unfortunately shit-stirring controversy is more noticable and memorable than just good quality contributing posts, and you produce a heck of a lot of both. I'd just really love to see more of the latter than the former.

And on a side note, I think we're getting more than a little removed from the actual topic of the thread.

 

[thebus88]

Literally only you bring up conspiracy theories or the thought of them being involved in this. I'm not belittling your points either, I just wish it was about things I found relevant or having to do anything with the team now. If you truly want to have a discussion about the front office, go bump the Jarmo thread.

You get "attacked" because you say the same shit over and over again. We get it. Sing a new tune. Why does every conversation you get involved in/create so hostile? Because thats how you come across in every single post. You point out how f***ing dumb everyone else is, and say how right you are. Gee, I wonder why you're so "targeted" by other posters here. Call it "group think" or whatever but if you just made your points and backed them up, people wouldn't fight with you all the time. Yet you make accusations and make OTHER people back them up rather than YOU doing so. You just made a whole post assuming Jones would stay here if we got Caleb, with literally nothing to back that up other than the fact Chicago did so that MUST mean it would have been true here too, even though it ignores so many variables.

You wanted us to keep Torts and Jones. Cool. The team didn't end up doing so. You act like us on HFBoards made the decision. Yet every chance you get you turn the conversations back to them. Some people want to move on and discuss things that pertain to the present and future of the team, not 3 years ago and if we would be better off with these guys.

These were all "relevant" conversations 3 maybe 2 years ago. Now? They do nothing. If I recall correctly most fans wanted to keep Jones anyway. What good does talking about having Jones and Torts do for us now? It's like you want to live in a Marvel movie where we can see what would happen in this Multiverse. We can't. In regards to pointing out the management staff, nobody brings them up because as far as we know (and you too!) both people WANTED TO LEAVE. So what can management do?

Would we be better? I don't know. Neither do you.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people here do find this relevant and rewarding to talk about and I should shut up and sit on the sidelines. But until then, I'm going to speak up for, you know, the current club and outlook rather than what could have been or should have been.

Ok, 1st YOU BROUGHT UP SETH JONES.

Torts was only brought up in a response -a question about why people thought he wanted to leave (seemingly an important fact IMO that your head coach would want to leave but still coach)- that some simply and thankfully just answered.

The response was replying to a comment attacking both Legace and Larsen, and the “attitude in the locker room” that needed to be removed. As if Brad Larsen and Manny Legace, the goalie coach, impacted the locker room, and now the team has been “healed” from that.

I’d say the bigger problem with the locker room is the players, not Manny f***ing Legace.

If Torts isn’t relevant during coaching conversations, I don’t know who is.

 

[Youngguns1380]

Same f***ed decisions, recently. And it’s not as if each fan will like each move, or that they will consistently actually be “good” or “bad” decisions.

Those 2 guys were instrumental during the CBJs most successful years. Everyone else adds their own bias and opinions regarding WHY these guys decided to leave, but, nobody truly knows. In other markets, the media or fans WOULD ask.

To say things or decisions that happened 3 years ago aren’t relevant, especially after another coach has been fired in such a short time, is not accurate, IMO.


Safe Is Death

Means what to you??

Neither Torts his last year, nor Larsen had ADEQUATE personnel to have a “good” or “successful” team.

Look - I am going to make 4 points and then shut-up, because I am really tired of discussing what-if’s and could-be’s on Torts, Jones and Korpi.

1. Torts contract was up and he decided to move on. He wasn’t fired
2. Jones wanted to move on - so be it
3. Larsen was fired because he lost the team/structure not because of the injuries. The rumors are they wanted to let him go earlier in the season/Buffalo game.
4. Korpi/Elvis - the front office made their decision. Who cares now we can’t change it and they are paid to make those decisions.

 

[Viqsi]

Ok, 1st YOU BROUGHT UP SETH JONES.

Technically, I think that was me. Mea culpa.

The response was replying to a comment attacking both Legace and Larsen, and the “attitude in the locker room” that needed to be removed. As if Brad Larsen and Manny Legace, the goalie coach, impacted the locker room, and now the team has been “healed” from that.

I’d say the bigger problem with the locker room is the players, not Manny f***ing Legace.

I think current moves to swap out the coaching staff involves testing that hypothesis, because the coaches 1) did have obvious problems and 2) are easier to replace than the players.

 

[Monstershockey]

He was in a position of power over him. I see it as as an easy way to abuse a friendship and it makes it really hard for a friend tell another friend what to do if the mindset isn’t right. I’m not sure I know of a lot of coaches who have their players come stay at their house.

Such a relationship can work. I just don’t think it did here and most situations I think it will fail.

I can't name any coaches either that had players stay with them, but I guess I look at it opposite. Being closer may make the player trust what the coach is telling him when he is trying to help. It really did a lot for Kivlenieks as he improved quite a bit. It may not have helped Elvis because he had more of an ego, or arrogance, however you want to describe it, and instead of trusting Legace's help, he resented or took offense to it.

I'm not to disappointed he is gone, coaches are always replaced, I just feel it was a little more on Elvis than Manny.

 

[thebus88]

I say it everytime the discussion comes up but Torts left, he was not fired.

Other than that Im glad players wanted out now that the dust has settled. We are set up significantly better than if we had a couple high end guys and just trying to patch holes to keep it a playoff team. This forced Jarmo to build a foundation of a team that can be more

It’s really not about the 2 individuals, it’s the unique situations of each and the question of WHY they wanted to leave.

I find that question both interesting and relevant to the CBJ and find it fascinating that more on this board don’t feel the same way.

 

[Viqsi]

It’s really not about the 2 individuals, it’s the unique situations of each and the question of WHY they wanted to leave.

I find that question both interesting and relevant to the CBJ and find it fascinating that more on this board don’t feel the same way.

I find that there's not nearly enough reliable information to determine that and so it's all too easy to end up applying biased reasoning, and so I don't go there because while I have no problem with overtly indulging my biases here and there for the lulz, I try to avoid covertly doing so.

 

[stevo61]

It’s really not about the 2 individuals, it’s the unique situations of each and the question of WHY they wanted to leave.

I find that question both interesting and relevant to the CBJ and find it fascinating that more on this board don’t feel the same way.

Because players ask for trades fairly often. 1 of the players who left did it again, I dont think that can be contributed to a Columbus issue no matter how hard you try.

Ive probably said it half a dozen times that Torts tried to build a culture and through trades/FA a lot of the players left. There was likely a disconnect between Torts and Jarmo at that point and Torts wanted to be fired but Jarmo made him work for the last year of his deal.

Jones probably saw a large chunk of his teammates leave and probably didnt want to be part of what was expected to be a long and tough rebuild. Funny enough thats what hes getting in Chicago.

Im disappointed when great players leave, I was when Panarin left but I dont hold onto it for very long. Even longtime players like Cam I get over quite quickly because I dont get attached in that way.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Never seen such a big show made out of such an regular and well timed coaching change. Especially confusing to me because the teams didnt even make deep playoff runs that would justify the outrage

 

[Fro]

Mute button undefeated apparently

I'm looking forward to this season...we may not be great, but could see it going down a Major League-esque route...gonna enjoy it

 

[NotWendell]

We've sucked since the year 2000. No one knows exactly why we've sucked all that time, so there's no answer. So we discuss it here.

I'm only surprised we're not discussing a sacred curse or secret deal with the mafia by now.

PS Don't talk to me about the Tampa series. We win ONE freaking playoff series and that's the highlight of the franchise?!? That's the epitome of suck right there.

 

[CBJx614]

Mute button undefeated apparently

I'm looking forward to this season...we may not be great, but could see it going down a Major League-esque route...gonna enjoy it

What's funny is I feel like a lot of posters on the general boards would have started to label us a playoff contender if we got Bedard in the lottery. But because we got poor 'ol Fantilli we just continue to suck for 3-5 more seasons.


I think this team is so close to competing that I really don't think playoffs are out of the question.

We get a little luck staying healthy and a little luck with guys taking that next step and we're definitely in the playoff race at the very least.