Speculation: Armchair GM - Offseason Thread (Summer Edition)

[koteka]

I don't think he understands team construction.
He panics often when he figures out what his team needs

This is where I am with him.

Maybe at some point this season he’ll figure out we have a goalie problem. Then he’ll overpay for a goalie next off season.

 

[Marioesque]

This is where I am with him.

Maybe at some point this season he’ll figure out we have a goalie problem. Then he’ll overpay for a goalie next off season.

Who would you want from the current market?

 

[VT]

Who would you want from the current market?

Maybe even a chair, just not Merzlikins if he has to play like last season.

 

[NotCommitted]

I don't like everything Jarmo does but I also don't claim to know what he would do under some made up scenarios I come up with.

Also after a 81 point season with a young roster I'm not gonna blame him for trying to build on that, also I'm not even sure what he should've done after 21-22 to make the team suck enough for intentional tanking? It's also pretty obvious he's been perfectly aware of the center situation, he drafted Johnson / Sillinger and has been repeatedly on record saying how difficult it is to address #1C unless you draft one.

If I got to choose, I'd rather have them healthy and follow some development curve from 21-22 last season than get swamped by injuries and implode, but that's what happened and maybe it turns out lucky in the end. But that's not within GMs control and you gotta play with the cards you're given.

 

[Marioesque]

Maybe even a chair, just not Merzlikins if he has to play like last season.

I think I read Adin Hill is trying out.

 

[koteka]

Who would you want from the current market?

I want a Jarmo type move. A trade nobody expected or bringing in a guy from a European league that has worked his way up. I don’t want a boring typical GM move of signing a free agent or trading for a guy that everyone knows will be traded. When did Jarmo stop being Jarmo?

 

[JacketsDavid]

Who would you want from the current market?

Korpisalo would have been an upgrade.
Now that assumes Jarmo would have swallowed his pride and admitted he gave a terrible contract to Elvis.

 

[squashmaple]

Who would you want from the current market?

He's not on the market because the Coyotes are looking to be better, but I'd overpay for Vejmelka.

 

[Cowumbus]

I don't like everything Jarmo does but I also don't claim to know what he would do under some made up scenarios I come up with.

Also after a 81 point season with a young roster I'm not gonna blame him for trying to build on that,

2 years into a rebuild and 20 points out of a playoff spot is the time to build a competitive team? Time to start competing? Time to sign Gaudreau, Gudbranson?

also I'm not even sure what he should've done after 21-22 to make the team suck enough for intentional tanking?

What I said last year:
Johnson, Sillinger, Marchenko, Jiricek, Chinakhov all to the AHL (where a lot of them belong anyway). Gavrikov traded before the season, same with Nyquist (who we got no value from due to him being hurt).

29-38-13
19-96-52
50-17-72
23-7-24
8-2
44-27
22-77

Our “Good” CBJ team started 3-9, the team above would be terrible - looks like a Chicago/SJS level team.

It's also pretty obvious he's been perfectly aware of the center situation, he drafted Johnson / Sillinger and has been repeatedly on record saying how difficult it is to address #1C unless you draft one.

Yet Johnson is not a C, and looks to be a winger. Sillinger struggled in year two and is middle 6 potential C anyway.

The bolded is my exact point.

If I got to choose, I'd rather have them healthy and follow some development curve from 21-22 last season than get swamped by injuries and implode,

You are kind of crazy for that. We have had a 1C for maybe 2-3 years in franchise history, accomplished nothing, and people are okay with continuing with that same plan? You can follow development in the AHL.

but that's what happened and maybe it turns out lucky in the end. But that's not within GMs control and you gotta play with the cards you're given.

Except when it comes to players leaving and wanting out as UFAs? Or does that count against Jarmo now?

 

[domi28]

View attachment 739966

Does anyone know how Voronkov's skating has looked like recently? I didn't watch too many KHL games this past season but watched a ton a couple years ago. From what I remember he's a bull in a china shop with a surprising amount of skill but his skating was very subpar. As in I'm not even sure I would call it NHL level a couple years ago. If his skating has improved I could see Babcock using him as a winger for something like Fantilli-Gaudreau or Roslovic/Laine. When he was in Toronto he loved pairing up two high skill guys with a grinder/pest/go get the puck type of guy.

 

[traffic cone]

2 years into a rebuild and 20 points out of a playoff spot is the time to build a competitive team? Time to start competing? Time to sign Gaudreau, Gudbranson?

What I said last year:
Johnson, Sillinger, Marchenko, Jiricek, Chinakhov all to the AHL (where a lot of them belong anyway). Gavrikov traded before the season, same with Nyquist (who we got no value from due to him being hurt).

29-38-13
19-96-52
50-17-72
23-7-24
8-2
44-27
22-77

Our “Good” CBJ team started 3-9, the team above would be terrible - looks like a Chicago/SJS level team.


Yet Johnson is not a C, and looks to be a winger. Sillinger struggled in year two and is middle 6 potential C anyway.

The bolded is my exact point.

You are kind of crazy for that. We have had a 1C for maybe 2-3 years in franchise history, accomplished nothing, and people are okay with continuing with that same plan? You can follow development in the AHL.

Except when it comes to players leaving and wanting out as UFAs? Or does that count against Jarmo now?

List me the players who are or are likely to be 1Cs drafted in the NHL during the past five years (150 players roughly).

The list is not long, I can tell you that. But I’d like to see your list.

 

[Cowumbus]

List me the players who are or are likely to be 1Cs drafted in the NHL during the past five years (150 players roughly).

The list is not long, I can tell you that. But I’d like to see your list.

Bedard
Fantilli
Carlsson
Smith
Cooley
Beniers
Stutzle
Hughes
Cozens
Hischier
Petterson
Norris/Suzuki ? (Low end 1C) not sure if I count them..

Guys like Johnston, McTavish, Thomas, Hayton, Zegras, Pinto (underrated), Mercer (if you play him as a C), Danielson in the 2C group. Where in a situation like San Jose, or Arizona they could eventually be playing 1C minutes - but the team is terrible.

 

[NotCommitted]

2 years into a rebuild and 20 points out of a playoff spot is the time to build a competitive team? Time to start competing? Time to sign Gaudreau, Gudbranson?

IMO yes if you have a very young team (they did) and are on a good trajectory. Gaudreau I think is the level of player you sign if you have the chance, you could draft 1st several years in a row and not get a player of his level.

I never liked the Gudbranson signing, I get why Jarmo did it, but that's just too much money for the level of player he is. Substitute Gudbranson with someone who is actually worth that contract and I'd have no problems with it.

What I said last year:
Johnson, Sillinger, Marchenko, Jiricek, Chinakhov all to the AHL (where a lot of them belong anyway). Gavrikov traded before the season, same with Nyquist (who we got no value from due to him being hurt).

In hindsight maybe but that would've been pretty demoralizing for a team that actually had a fighting chance for a wild card spot the previous season. Yeah they ended up with only 81 points but they were right in the mix until Jenner got hurt, was it mid-March or something.

Our “Good” CBJ team started 3-9, the team above would be terrible - looks like a Chicago/SJS level team.

Again hindsight, though if I recall correctly you were for the tank all along (even before the season started) so not 'blaming' you for it. But that's way worse start than I think almost anyone expected and let's not forget they lost Laine in game1 and it just got worse from there. A ridiculous season.

Assuming everyone stays healthy, even with your tank moves I'm not sure that's a legit tanking team. You have Werenski, Gaudreau, Laine, Voracek and Jenner. The way things went, you can pretty much scratch off Werenski and Voracek and both Laine and Jenner missed significant time, but nobody knew that beforehand.

Yet Johnson is not a C, and looks to be a winger. Sillinger struggled in year two and is middle 6 potential C anyway.

It's too early to say whether Johnson is a C or not. He could become a legit #1C. I hoped they had given him more looks there but we don't know what Jarmo is thinking or what Larsen was thinking. Maybe they really just want to give him a bit more time to grow into his man strength as a winger.

Sillinger should've been sent AHL last spring already or even earlier but that said his rookie year showed a lot of promise, they just needed to send him down when it became apparent he's struggling. I saw solid 2C upside, I still do but with more uncertainty.

Again, in hindsight tanking makes perfect sense, but I would've been pissed off had they actually made such moves, but of course I didn't foresee the ridiculous amount of injuries, complete lack of goaltending or Larsen failing so miserably after seemingly doing a quite good job in his first year. The injuries are just shit luck, maybe on the latter two points I was being too optimistic, but I have no regrets The way they played 21-22 they earned my optimism despite the obvious problems.

 

[Monk]

2 years into a rebuild and 20 points out of a playoff spot is the time to build a competitive team? Time to start competing? Time to sign Gaudreau, Gudbranson?

So to paraphrase.. they should have not signed Gaudreau, made no moves to improve the team so... what? They could have finished in a lottery position?

 

[stevo61]

Bedard
Fantilli
Carlsson
Smith
Cooley
Beniers
Stutzle
Hughes
Cozens
Hischier
Petterson
Norris/Suzuki ? (Low end 1C) not sure if I count them..

Guys like Johnston, McTavish, Thomas, Hayton, Zegras, Pinto (underrated), Mercer (if you play him as a C), Danielson in the 2C group. Where in a situation like San Jose, or Arizona they could eventually be playing 1C minutes - but the team is terrible.

Its actually a decently long list but at the same time from the group not ranked low end 1C the lowest drafted guy is Cozens at 7. Of course there can be guys who come out of nowhere but really puts into perspective how hard these guys can be to find

 

[CBJx614]

So to paraphrase.. they should have not signed Gaudreau, made no moves to improve the team so... what? They could have finished in a lottery position?

Gotta plan to tank for the tank to be worthwhile. And so we can keep rebuilding and stay the youngest team in the league year after year!

 

[Cowumbus]

So to paraphrase.. they should have not signed Gaudreau, made no moves to improve the team so... what? They could have finished in a lottery position?

Yes. Because that team as constructed was nowhere close to competing and had serious flaws, and the rebuild had just started. It takes time. How many of their 21/22 top point producers were viewed as long term pieces? Nyquist, Voracek, Roslovic, Gavrikov, Domi (Bjorkstrand probably could have been but we sent him packing too) - I’m not seeing guys that are part of the core group.

Gotta plan to tank for the tank to be worthwhile. And so we can keep rebuilding and stay the youngest team in the league year after year!

You should be during a rebuild…

 

[CBJx614]

Yes. Because that team as constructed was nowhere close to competing and had serious flaws, and the rebuild had just started. It takes time. How many of their 21/22 top point producers were viewed as long term pieces? Nyquist, Voracek, Roslovic, Gavrikov, Domi (Bjorkstrand probably could have been but we sent him packing too) - I’m not seeing guys that are part of the core group.

You should be during a rebuild…

The moment Gaudreau signed with us, it was signaling that we weren't going for a full rebuild the way you keep referencing Chicago is. That wasn't ever going to happen. And Jarmo has done a helluva job (or as you say, gotten lucky) retooling as quickly as he has. With so many pieces starting to look NHL ready around the same time. Chinny, Marchenko, Voronkov, Peeke Boqvist, Jiricek, Johnson, Svozil not even mentioning Fantilli or guys like Brindley who will be competing I'm assuming as soon as next season.

We didn't need a full rebuild, we just need to develop these kids we already properly. Which means sheltering them and bringing them along when they are ready. Which is the fine line he's trying thread right now by being competitive enough that we don't need to put Jiricek and Svozil in the top 4 next season for example.

 

[Monk]

Yes. Because that team as constructed was nowhere close to competing and had serious flaws, and the rebuild had just started. It takes time. How many of their 21/22 top point producers were viewed as long term pieces? Nyquist, Voracek, Roslovic, Gavrikov, Domi (Bjorkstrand probably could have been but we sent him packing too) - I’m not seeing guys that are part of the core group.

You should be during a rebuild…

I mean, if you wanted Jarmo to actively make the team worse while he was actively trying to make the team better, I can see how you wouldn't like anything he does

 

[JacketsDavid]

I mean, if you wanted Jarmo to actively make the team worse while he was actively trying to make the team better, I can see how you wouldn't like anything he does

Jarmo is teaching a masterclass. He actively spends like he's building a competive team but ends up in the lottery.

 

[Marioesque]

You should be during a rebuild…

They specifically said "Retooling, not a rebuild" but you're judging based on your expectation of a rebuild.

Instead of gutting the team and building from ground up, they just made adjustments because the old core wasn't going to work. On top of that they used the picks really well. I think the turnaround has been great and should start providing results this season. Should have already last season but injuries ruined it.

 

[Monk]

Jarmo is teaching a masterclass. He actively spends like he's building a competive team but ends up in the lottery.

That's why he's in the hotseat for me, but with the whole picture in mind I think he deserves at least another year.

 

[JacketsDavid]

That's why he's in the hotseat for me, but with the whole picture in mind I think he deserves at least another year.

I generally agree. He couldn't control all the injuries last season. He also addressed 2 glaring needs (HC and dmen) this off season, but the play of Elvis could make it or break it.

 

[GoJackets1]

Slam Jarmo for the team being bad.

Also slam Jarmo for trying to make the team better.

 

[EDM]

Please training camp, please start and give us something new to talk about.