Confirmed Buy-Out [ARI] Antoine Vermette

[TheNewEra]

Depending on vermettes asking price he will fit on any team imo. Especially since he is probably going to want a 1 year deal to try and capitalize in FA next year. I'm going to guess he signs a 1 year 1.25-1.5 deal

 

[rt]

With only one year left on his deal he was still decent enough to play, especially on a team like Arizona.

Don't quite understand this

Without Tanguay, he was an offensive black-hole last season. Apart from the PP where the majority of his production came. This season, he wouldn't have been getting any PP time, and Tanguay is gone.

The Coyotes were looking at 20-25pt center who's PK usage had declined so much he barely managed to get 1min/gp on the PK last season, despite his team having one of the league's worst penalty kills. Though, it's not a shock he had reduced PK minutes, given that he took 20 more penalties than he drew last season, which was worst on the team.

He was an undisciplined player last season, which hurt the team. He wasn't a contributor at even strength, and was looking at having only even strength minutes in the upcoming season.

Obviously management (and Dave Tippett is both the coach and John Chayka's boss) feel that the team is better off without Vermette because he's a net negative player that hurts the team on the ice more than he helps the team on the ice. The numbers certainly suggest that's the case, and when you took the time to give it the eye-test, it's not surprising that the numbers shake out that way.

2.5million & Vermette not on ice > 3.75million & Vermette on ice

 

[HarrisonFord]

Depending on vermettes asking price he will fit on any team imo. Especially since he is probably going to want a 1 year deal to try and capitalize in FA next year. I'm going to guess he signs a 1 year 1.25-1.5 deal

Yup, agreed. I wonder where he goes. Montreal, Pitt, Chicago, Dallas, LA, Nashville, and Vancouver all seem like possible fits

 

[rt]

If he can clean up the minor penalties, and he comes cheap enough, he should be a fine 4th line center.

76gp 21EVpts = 0.28EVppg

58gp 24pts without Tanguay = .41ppg

76gp 38pts 21EVpts = 55% of pts at EV

.41ppg w/o Tanguay x 82gp = 34pts x .55EV = 19pts

A healthy Vermette with no Tanguay and no PP time gets you around 20pts

 

[BUX7PHX]

Say whatever you want. Buying out a guy with one year left on his contract who came back to a horrible team by choice on a two-year deal is horrible judgment and matches the coyotes organization to a T.

It has to do with the entire coyotes organization having bad judgment, and making the NHL look like a joke. Everything they do is a joke. The structure of the latest doan deal. The buyout of vermette. Taking on multiple retired contracts instead of properly icing a team.The yotes fans just wave the CBA in the air but At what point will the NHL finally say no to this awful organization?

Or maybe... just MAYBE it's because he isn't worth $3.75m and it's not a wise financial move for Arizona (say, compared to a Toronto, Montreal or NYR) to bury that salary in the minors, still have to actually pay it and only get minimal savings on the cap.

Thank you for some wise logic MGC. Here is some other wise logic for varano to chew over:

Who was the GM of the Arizona Coyotes:
a) when Vermette was traded to Chicago?
b) when Vermette re-signed with AZ?
c) when Vermette was bought out?

The answers are:
a) Maloney
b) Maloney
c) Chayka

Even though Chayka was on board with the team since the previous May (meaning that by virtue of being with the organization, he was involved in Vermette's 2 year deal), he may not have had ties to Vermette or even supported bringing him back. Part of the reason why Maloney was let go was b/c of a disconnect between him and other FO types - maybe this was a similar scenario where there was a 50/50 split on whether to bring Vermette back or not, and Maloney opted to bring him back, against some wishes.

 

[_Del_]

If he can clean up the minor penalties, and he comes cheap enough, he should be a fine 4th line center.

76gp 21EVpts = 0.28EVppg

58gp 24pts without Tanguay = .41ppg

76gp 38pts 21EVpts = 55% of pts at EV

.41ppg w/o Tanguay x 82gp = 34pts x .55EV = 19pts

A healthy Vermette with no Tanguay and no PP time gets you around 20pts

You could just as easily do a purely mathematical analysis to say a healthy Vermette without Boedker gets a lot more points. I'm not sure you can chicken and egg this one or break it down to a Tanguay-bump. It's not like Tanguay lit it up for Colorado before joining Vermette.
Vermette isn't what he used to be, but I'm not sure he's done. Would be a good bottom six pickup for somebody, imo.

 

[rt]

You could just as easily do a purely mathematical analysis to say a healthy Vermette without Boedker gets a lot more points.

Go for it! Let's see what we get.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Tanguay is still playing?

 

[Satastic]

It is a joke! Getting rid of a guy for nothing because young kids might out play him? Why not make them prove it in camp and the pre season?


And the Coyotes are helping cap circumvention with the Pronger and Datsyuk deals. I'm sure the other teams in the league wouldn't be able to do that because they aren't partially owned and being bailed out by the league. If the NHL started punishing the Coyotes they would probably just fold or relocate Hahahaha

Weird that that Savard guy is in New Jersey huh? Or Horton in Toronto

 

[TheCLAM]

Smart move by Chayka..

They clearly want to sign someone on the open market.. Possibly Hudler or Russell or even simple re-signing Rieder. This frees up internal cap space and allows them to splurge on a player of choice.

The buy-out really means nothing, PHX won't be spending to the cap anytime soon.

 

[varano]

Thank you for some wise logic MGC. Here is some other wise logic for varano to chew over:

Who was the GM of the Arizona Coyotes:
a) when Vermette was traded to Chicago?
b) when Vermette re-signed with AZ?
c) when Vermette was bought out?

The answers are:
a) Maloney
b) Maloney
c) Chayka

Even though Chayka was on board with the team since the previous May (meaning that by virtue of being with the organization, he was involved in Vermette's 2 year deal), he may not have had ties to Vermette or even supported bringing him back. Part of the reason why Maloney was let go was b/c of a disconnect between him and other FO types - maybe this was a similar scenario where there was a 50/50 split on whether to bring Vermette back or not, and Maloney opted to bring him back, against some wishes.

They save like two million dollars with that buyout. The only logic I'm thinking about is that if a move like this is so critically important to the coyotes, then they are one foot in the grave and one foot on a banana peel.

 

[TLEH]

Come back to Chicago 1 yr 1 mil

 

[Scott MS]

Cap floor is $54M. Cap is $73M. Difference is about $19M.

Coyotes are spending up to the cap floor on their players, but the difference between their actual spend and the $73M cap should be considered an asset because they won't spend $73M (nor will many other teams).

They used this asset to trade with Detroit. Coyotes move up from No. 20 to No. 16 in exchange for Datsyuk's cap hit of $7.5M which wasn't going to spent anyways by Arizona (no actual cash being paid). In return, the Coyotes ship off Vitale, who unfortunately will never play another game and is owed $1.1M in real cash next season.

Now, Vermette has slipped the past two years. I know he wasn't that great for Chicago, besides the goal in Game 5. I'm not upset to see him leave because 20 year old Christian Dvorak will make the club this season. In fact, he's better than Strome right now.

Who's to say that the Coyotes won't sign another Center who brings more upside than Vermette?

 

[Scott MS]

Coyotes are currently spending $50.3M on roster players who will hit the ice this season (if you take out Datsyuk, Pronger, and the Vermette/Ribiero buyouts). They also need to add 3-4 more forwards which include signing Rieder. They will hit the cap floor with real dollars spent.

 

[webersshot]

He's French, so the Habs must be interested.

I hope so. There's thread on those tires still. Great defensive player. Do it bergy. 3 million for a year

 

[Booba]

Who's to say that the Coyotes won't sign another Center who brings more upside than Vermette?

Smart move by Chayka..

They clearly want to sign someone on the open market.. Possibly Hudler or Russell or even simple re-signing Rieder. This frees up internal cap space and allows them to splurge on a player of choice.

The buy-out really means nothing, PHX won't be spending to the cap anytime soon.

Buying out a guy who showed a lot of loyalty to the franchise will not help Arizona attract free agents.

 

[boredmale]

I don't get why they are buying him out. They could have easily kept him and traded him at the deadline(eating some of his salary) for a decent return

 

[Duck Off]

Coyotes are currently spending $50.3M on roster players who will hit the ice this season (if you take out Datsyuk, Pronger, and the Vermette/Ribiero buyouts). They also need to add 3-4 more forwards which include signing Rieder. They will hit the cap floor with real dollars spent.

I keep seeing this. Isn't it "cap floor"? I'm fairly certain actual dollars are irrelevant. It's kind of a ***** slap to their fan base, but I'm pretty sure the Coyotes could do nothing else and be fine to start the season since their cap is well above the floor.

*I do realize they will do more. The point is that you have to above the cap floor, and actual dollars spent is irrelevant.*

 

[rt]

I don't get why they are buying him out. They could have easily kept him and traded him at the deadline(eating some of his salary) for a decent return

I imagine they temp checked interest around the league.

 

[rt]

I keep seeing this. Isn't it "cap floor"? I'm fairly certain actual dollars are irrelevant. It's kind of a ***** slap to their fan base, but I'm pretty sure the Coyotes could do nothing else and be fine to start the season since their cap is well above the floor.

*I do realize they will do more. The point is that you have to above the cap floor, and actual dollars spent is irrelevant.*

Cap hits are imaginary funny money. It doesn't matter to budget teams like the Coyotes. Our fans aren't impressed with being above the cap-floor due to guys like Pronger and Datsyuk. We want to see the team spend actual dollars on the actual product. At the very least, they spend real dollars above what the cap floor is. For us fans we can say "at least" they're doing that. We want them to do more, but "at least" we have that.

Real dollars are irrelevant for fans of cap teams. Cap is irrelevant for fans of budget teams.

 

[ck26]

I don't get why they are buying him out. They could have easily kept him and traded him at the deadline(eating some of his salary) for a decent return

Read literally anywhere in the thread. Post 327 sums it up nicely.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Buying out a guy who showed a lot of loyalty to the franchise will not help Arizona attract free agents.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Doan? He's the only player on the roster who should be notable at all for loyalty to the franchise.

Vermette is a great room guy and a big pal of Doan's but his contracts weren't exactly discounted, y'know?

 

[Booba]

Are you sure you're not thinking of Doan? He's the only player on the roster who should be notable at all for loyalty to the franchise.

Vermette is a great room guy and a big pal of Doan's but his contracts weren't exactly discounted, y'know?

I know the difference between Doan and Vermette. Thanks.

However, whether Vermette was loyal enough to Arizona was not the main point of my comment.

Arizona has a lot of cap hits coming off the books next off season (Datsyuk, Doan, Pronger, Hanzal, Michalek and Stone) so they'll likely need to attract some players from outside the organisation to reach the cap floor.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

However, whether Vermette was loyal enough to Arizona was not the main point of my comment.

But it was a key component - bringing it up cast the buyout as a disrespecting of Vermette's theoretical show of loyalty, which would prejudice the franchise's ability to sign free agents.

Arizona has a lot of cap hits coming off the books next off season (Datsyuk, Doan, Pronger, Hanzal, Michalek and Stone) so they'll likely need to attract some players from outside the organisation to reach the cap floor.

I think John Chayka has shown that he has the ability to target and sign free agents more successfully than Don Maloney showed in his tenure. Goligoski had the Coyotes listed on his NTC, yet eventually he ended up signing a multi-year deal to play here.

The likelihood of attracting UFA is far, far more tied up into the team's performance this year than a buyout of a declining asset - which, as good a person as Vermette is, is an accurate description of him as a player.

 

[vipernsx]

Without Tanguay, he was an offensive black-hole last season. Apart from the PP where the majority of his production came. This season, he wouldn't have been getting any PP time, and Tanguay is gone.

The Coyotes were looking at 20-25pt center who's PK usage had declined so much he barely managed to get 1min/gp on the PK last season, despite his team having one of the league's worst penalty kills. Though, it's not a shock he had reduced PK minutes, given that he took 20 more penalties than he drew last season, which was worst on the team.

He was an undisciplined player last season, which hurt the team. He wasn't a contributor at even strength, and was looking at having only even strength minutes in the upcoming season.

Obviously management (and Dave Tippett is both the coach and John Chayka's boss) feel that the team is better off without Vermette because he's a net negative player that hurts the team on the ice more than he helps the team on the ice. The numbers certainly suggest that's the case, and when you took the time to give it the eye-test, it's not surprising that the numbers shake out that way.

2.5million & Vermette not on ice > 3.75million & Vermette on ice

I get what you're saying it's still a head-scratcher for me.

Vermette may not have interest now around the league, most teams are running a tight budget, handing out stingy contracts and are holding onto what they have left in budget. However, the guys gold at the trade deadline and a team building for the future, why wouldn't they want a 2nd rounder at the deadline?

He's got the assets a team looks for at the deadline, he'd be cheaper then, heck AZ could retain salary and make him nearly free at the deadline. He's got a history of deadline interest and returning at least a 2nd rounder.

Even if you're making room for the kids, a veteran presence with defensive reliability is helpful to a young group. A regular spot in the bottom 6, bottom 9 if needed on the wing or center. If there are injuries or a kid show's he's really not play Vermette.

I just don't see how they loose by holding onto him. IMO they were a couple million over budget and thought they could move Vermette. When they couldn't they cut their losses and made a financial decision to save cash.

When TML trades Brooks Laich at the deadline I'd like to come back to this thread and see if it was worth it for AZ to dump Vermette for a buyout.