Are the Leafs gonna be tougher to play against?

[notbias]

Kerfoot lost, but he could hardly score goals. Domi and Bertuzzi are both fairly fast and can score more (althoguh recently looking at Domi's stats he's a worse goal scorer lately than I realized), who else did we lose with speed? Klingberg should help with transition which plays a part in it too.

Domi and Bertuzzi barely score too...

Remove PP and the goals are Domi 31, Bertuzzi 30, and Kerfoot 27 for the last 3 years.

Bertuzzi has played a lot less, but still not a big goal scorer.

I will keep saying, good job on the signings, they are good players, I am excited, but people have no clue who we are getting judging by this thread.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I never thought I would see the day that leaf fans would be longing for Kerfoot.

People will do anything to make the Dubas era look like it was all fine.

 

[kb]

I never thought I would see the day that leaf fans would be longing for Kerfoot.

People will do anything to make the Dubas era look like it was all fine.

I'm very impressed by the strawman you just built.

Quote one poster who is "longing for Kerfoot".

Lying is not a good look for a poster seeking credibility for close to a year.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I'm very impressed by the strawman you just built.

Quote one poster who is "longing for Kerfoot".

Lying is not a good look for a poster seeking credibility for close to a year.

Hahaha

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Domi + Bertuzzi = 130 GP 76 HTS 46 BKS

Kerfoot =. 82 GP 54 HTS 46 BKS

On pace Kerfoot outhits and outblocks both combined. Kerfoot.

I think people may be mistaking them for their fathers.

I see your point despite my jabs.

I guess I'll spin it differently.

Question:

If Domi or Bertuzzi were to engage Kerfoot in a fight would he stand up to them?

You don't have to answer that, but there is something in my question. Perhaps that's how Leaf fans are perceiving a theme of *new* added toughness.

 

[Marshy]

Perhaps they will be tougher in the negotiation room. No more pushover Dubas to strong-arm. Gotta kick it into high gear and get that cap percentage of the new cap....not the next year's cap but the really important 5 years down the road.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

Domi and Bertuzzi barely score too...

Remove PP and the goals are Domi 31, Bertuzzi 30, and Kerfoot 27 for the last 3 years.

Bertuzzi has played a lot less, but still not a big goal scorer.

I will keep saying, good job on the signings, they are good players, I am excited, but people have no clue who we are getting judging by this thread.

I get what you’re saying and kind of agree that some people have a bit of a incorrect view of what we’re getting, but I think you’re underselling Bertuzzi’s goal scoring relative to Kerfoot’s. Bertuzzi had more playoff goals THIS year than Kerfoot has in his entire playoff career. Bertuzzi gets more powerplay goals because his goal scoring is good on the powerplay so I’m not sure why you’d discount those. Like you said he’s played less games and in my mind that’s his biggest issue in that he can’t stay healthy. Bertuzzi has 30 goal season capability, Kerfoot does not, regardless of ES/PP time.

 

[ACC1224]

I see your point despite my jabs.

I guess I'll spin it differently.

Question:

If Domi or Bertuzzi were to engage Kerfoot in a fight would he stand up to them?

You don't have to answer that, but there is something in my question. Perhaps that's how Leaf fans are perceiving a theme of *new* added toughness.

Kerfoot was fine, just made too much.
Hits as a raw stat is pretty stupid. It varies from building to building and a little bump counts the same as running a guy over.

 

[notbias]

I get what you’re saying and kind of agree that some people have a bit of a incorrect view of what we’re getting, but I think you’re underselling Bertuzzi’s goal scoring relative to Kerfoot’s. Bertuzzi had more playoff goals THIS year than Kerfoot has in his entire playoff career. Bertuzzi gets more powerplay goals because his goal scoring is good on the powerplay so I’m not sure why you’d discount those. Like you said he’s played less games and in my mind that’s his biggest issue in that he can’t stay healthy. Bertuzzi has 30 goal season capability, Kerfoot does not, regardless of ES/PP time.

I don't know if Bertuzzi is PP1, so that's why I'd remove PP points.

He has the capability to score 30, of course. Just unlikely based on his career.

He has one season that looks like an anomaly where he got 30 and was close to PPG, but he looks more like a 25 goal/55 point kind of guy. Which is great.

There just seems to be an assumption that our offense got a lot better, or that our goalscoring has greatly improved. I think the biggest improvement will be from Klingberg.

Having said all that, there is way more potential in Domi and Bertuzzi because they have a lot of skill, but from look at their previous seasons, it doesn't look like it'd be a huge boost in goals/points.

You specifically borough up playoffs this year because Bertuzzi excelled. He had 8 goals all year in 50 games. He shot 24% in the playoffs, clearly, that is not the norm (nor was his regular season sh%).

 

[DragoGrizzly]

It’s more about showing capability to do so, which he has a few times, something Kerfoot has never done. That’s where people’s expectations of more offence are coming from. I’m just kind of stunned you don’t see Bertuzzi as much of an offensive upgrade over Kerfoot. Do you not think, if paired with Matthews and Marner on the top line, that Bertuzzi would score significantly more points than Kerfoot? Kerfoot was tried on top line and it wasn’t great. Again I recognize you said he has the potential to, but the expectation comes from that potential and evidence of being able to do it in the past.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

And sorry to steer us off topic there.

In regards to toughness, I absolutely think the team is tougher in regards to willingness to stand up for teammates. That’s one of the biggest sore points for me the past 6 years or so is watching no one stand up for their teammates. I don’t think Reaves, Domi or Bertuzzi would just stand there if one of their teammates got hit from behind or powerslammed to the ice.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I am not sure to be honest. I think the 3 additions of Reaves, Domi, and Bertuzzi really help with the overall competitiveness of our group. Specifically Domi and Bert being top 6/9 players.

We need guys who hate losing. All 3 of those guys will make our opponents pay when we have an off night. They are the type of players who will drag everyone into the fight. Not to mention, I really don't think they'll be afraid to call guys out for not doing the same. I think ROR was definitely a guy who didn't take losing lightly either, but I also don't think he was first into the scrums either. sometimes it just takes a big hit here or a high energy shift there to change the momentum of a game. ROR was great for us, but he was a JT light IMO. Defensively strong, competitive, and skilled. Bert and Domi add pace and tenacity and they can change the flow of a game after the whistles.

Maybe that's just me being optimistic, but I genuinely think those are the type of players this team has needed in the top 6/9 for a long time.

Not to mention the addition of Reavo really will make teams second guess what liberties they take on our star players. Never underestimate the amount of space a guy like Reavo can create for our big dogs, even when he is not on the ice. Fear is still very much a real thing in hockey. Arguably no one is more feared than Reavo

 

[Twine Tickler]

The below clip is the energy and competitiveness that we've been missing since Naz left. Naz hated losing more than anyone. Which ultimately lead him into making some foolish plays that resulted in suspension. But one thing was for certain, he gave it his all every night and would never go quietly. We need more players like Naz. I think Bert and Domi will provide a bit of that missing ingredient TBH.



For those who don't remember this clip, Naz single handedly changed the tide of the game with this shift. The building was lifeless, our team was lifeless, and Naz decided to change that. It instantly paid off in this case, but regardless of outcome it was the exact energy we needed at the time.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Until each of the core 4 grows a pair the team will not be tougher to play against

This is the true answer with the Reaves blinders off. Domi and Bertuzzi are annoyances, like Bunting, but likely won't drop mitts, so that isn't particularly intimidating or tough to play against. I don't think they need or should be dropping at will like Reaves, but they do need to at least show they're willing to drop 'em if they run their mouths or scrum it up. That's something Bunting absolutely would not do and he was treated like the fly that he is - a minor annoyance that won't hurt you in the least.

Until then, no, this team should remain easy to play against and a game many players would have circled on the calendar because they know it's East-West points night and it won't be a hard game on the boards or going back to get the puck because Keefe's Leafs don't chase their dumps.

Sure, Reaves is undoubtedly an intimidating presence being the undisputed toughest guy in the league, but the core's attitude - or rather lack thereof - and personalities won't be altered by him or anyone else other than themselves.

 

[Racer88]

This is the true answer with the Reaves blinders off. Domi and Bertuzzi are annoyances, like Bunting, but likely won't drop mitts, so that isn't particularly intimidating or tough to play against. I don't think they need or should be dropping at will like Reaves, but they do need to at least show they're willing to drop 'em if they run their mouths or scrum it up. That's something Bunting absolutely would not do and he was treated like the fly that he is - a minor annoyance that won't hurt you in the least.

Until then, no, this team should remain easy to play against and a game many players would have circled on the calendar because they know it's East-West points night and it won't be a hard game on the boards or going back to get the puck because Keefe's Leafs don't chase their dumps.

Sure, Reaves is undoubtedly an intimidating presence being the undisputed toughest guy in the league, but the core's attitude - or rather lack thereof - and personalities won't be altered by him or anyone else other than themselves.

Reaves is there to settle major grievances but in the shift to shift scrums and front of net scrums the core 4 need to cowboy up. They need to let other teams know that they will not be taken advantage of.
I’m not sure if I will ever get the vision of Matthews doing his cowardly laugh while being rag dolled from behind.
I was embarrassed for him.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Bertuzzi > Bunting
Domi > Kerfoot
Klingberg > Holl
Reaves < Acciari


= ROR
= Schenn

that's kinda how I see it

Our team is overall better than where it was at the start of the 2022-23 season, but that is also largely due to some of the additions Kyle was able to make in season and through his drafting tenure. Having a full season of Knies, McCabe, Lafferty and hopefully one or both of Holmberg and Robertson will be massive. We should be able to play in in any type of game IMO. I don't think there are too many teams that are objectively faster than us, and I also don't think there are many teams that are overwhelmingly tougher and more competitive.

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Marner
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - Domi - Jarnkrok
Lafferty - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Brodie
McCabe - Klingberg
Giordano - Liljegren

Of course this can all change with a Willy trade, but as it stands I like the look of this roster if I am being completely honest.

 

[weems]

I hope they become a tougher team with playing more north - south hockey.
More flipping the puck to open spaces, forechecking and finishing checks with some authority.
More taking the puck directly to the front of the net when you have an open lane and not opting to curl back.
Just firing more pucks on the net especially from the point looking for tips, deflections or rebound goals.
No fly bys because in the playoffs physicality takes a toll on the opposing team and you need to dish it out consistently.

I didn't like the style of hockey we played under Dubas and think we can become a tougher/more frustrating team to play against by just doing some of the things mentioned above more often. Not everyone that asks for the team to get tougher means just a bunch of fighters who want to punch people in the face and there's actual ways in how you play the game stylistically that can make you a harder team.

 

[authentic]

Domi and Bertuzzi barely score too...

Remove PP and the goals are Domi 31, Bertuzzi 30, and Kerfoot 27 for the last 3 years.

Bertuzzi has played a lot less, but still not a big goal scorer.

I will keep saying, good job on the signings, they are good players, I am excited, but people have no clue who we are getting judging by this thread.

Well atleast Bertuzzi is a comfortably better per game goal scorer so a lot of this relies on his health. I agree though, I was a little let down when I went back and looked at both of their stats. However, Bertuzzi just had 5 goals and 10 points in 7 games against Florida, and even Domi had 13 points in 19 games which is much more than Kerfoot was capable of.

 

[authentic]

Reaves is there to settle major grievances but in the shift to shift scrums and front of net scrums the core 4 need to cowboy up. They need to let other teams know that they will not be taken advantage of.
I’m not sure if I will ever get the vision of Matthews doing his cowardly laugh while being rag dolled from behind.
I was embarrassed for him.

Perhaps they'll be more inclined to do so with Reaves on the team

 

[justashadowof]

The team is really only marginally harder to play against. Like him or not Ryan Reaves is the main reason for this. Klingberg is an offensive defenseman with a long reach, good feet and a less physical game than almost any regular defender who played for the Leafs last season. Klingberg has a chance of enhancing the team's even strength offense more than anything. Domi and Bertuzzi may go "inside" a little more often than the likes of Alex Kerfoot and Pierre Engvall but not more than Michael Bunting or Ryan O'Reilly. Matthew Knies (and maybe Bobby McMann) will bring forward their "inside" play for a full season (possibly). Still needed is that elusive top 4 defender with a big body, excellent mobility and strong physical presence. That's what would actually make the team tougher to play against.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I don't know if Bertuzzi is PP1, so that's why I'd remove PP points.

He has the capability to score 30, of course. Just unlikely based on his career.

He has one season that looks like an anomaly where he got 30 and was close to PPG, but he looks more like a 25 goal/55 point kind of guy. Which is great.

There just seems to be an assumption that our offense got a lot better, or that our goalscoring has greatly improved. I think the biggest improvement will be from Klingberg.

Having said all that, there is way more potential in Domi and Bertuzzi because they have a lot of skill, but from look at their previous seasons, it doesn't look like it'd be a huge boost in goals/points.

You specifically borough up playoffs this year because Bertuzzi excelled. He had 8 goals all year in 50 games. He shot 24% in the playoffs, clearly, that is not the norm (nor was his regular season sh%).

PP will always inflate numbers. There is no question about that. The thing with Kerfoot is that he never did anything other than be in good position. You're never going to look down the bench at Kerf to have a shift that ignites a sleepy bunch. He never lost us games, but aside from game 6 against the Bolts, he never really won us games either. And lets be honest, fantastic tip, but it was hardly like he did anything else in that game.

Kerf has 3 goals and 4pts in his last 18 playoff games. It really just illustrates exactly what you get from Kerf when the rink shrinks in the post season. Lots of neautral hockey. It's not a bad thing, but when your team struggles to score in the post season, which has been the case for us, we need more down than just getting pucks deep.

Kerf is a far better player than most people give him credit for. He's positionally sound and can be deployed in a multitude of ways. He very rarely cheats the game, but he also very rarely makes a difference on the scoresheet both in a positive and negative capacity. All that to say, Domi and Bertuzzi are just far more impactful players. Yes, their PP opportunities have been much more abundant over the years, and it shows in the overall discrepancy of their pt totals. But they've also largely been on their teams top offensive lines throughout their careers and face much harder matchups than Kerf ever will get 5v5 as well.

Kerf is more in the territory of Jarnkrok than he is Bert and Domi.

 

[m1ker]

We still need tougher defence

 

[Racer88]

Perhaps they'll be more inclined to do so with Reaves on the team

One can only hope but generally a tiger does not change his stripes

 

[ToneDog]

Hard to believe using Kerfoot to argue against Bertuzzi. As Tre said, Bert and Domi go to and score from the dirty areas, Kerfoot barely scored 10 goals this season.

 

[notbias]

Well atleast Bertuzzi is a comfortably better per game goal scorer so a lot of this relies on his health. I agree though, I was a little let down when I went back and looked at both of their stats. However, Bertuzzi just had 5 goals and 10 points in 7 games against Florida, and even Domi had 13 points in 19 games which is much more than Kerfoot was capable of.

My argument is not that they are the same as Kerfoot, I prefer Domi and Bertuzzi a lot more than Kerfoot. My argument was that people seem to be talking like we got PPG players who hit everything and will fight anyone. We got two people who are slight upgrades on Bunting. Klingberg is the bigger wildcard to me, and potentially the most valuable of the bunch.