Are Leaf fans prepared to do a proper rebuild?

[Leafidelity]

What will be the reaction if Kessel walks as a UFA and Seguin and Hamilton become stars?

Why are we playing pretend? You can't make up a scenario and call it an answer. What if Matt Finn becomes the greatest defenseman of all time?

 

[charliolemieux]

I don't know how to set up a poll but I am curious. Now that we have seen how horrible Burke's improper shortcut,I dont have a plan works. Are Leaf fans prepared to rebuild properly or are we looking to make the playoffs right away and of course lose? If one looks openly at the rest of the east,we have no chance now or even with Luongo. Will we now repeat the mistakes of the last 46 years or do a proper rebuild which might take 2 years or even less? Thoughts?

That is Burke's short cut all over again.

The "proper" rebuild is to sell off everything for prospects and picks. Then ice what is basically an AHL team and lose for a few years drafting very early.


NO thank you. This team is close to being a contender. One more crappy year to draft our #1C and pick up a #1G then begin our climb up the ladder.


What do you want to do trade Phaneuf and Kessel for Picks?

 

[Confucius]

Why are Leafs fans so insecure about things like this? We're the only franchise that frets FAs two years before they come up.

That is a bad thing? The further down the road you can see the better.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I doubt Kessel will want to stay.

Full rebuild? Aka sell off Kessel/Phaneuf and start from scratch?

If we get a top 5 pick this draft, it might not be necessary. Blueline looks set longterm. If we got MacKinnon, Barkov, or another top C, then up front would look MUCH better longterm.

It would really just be goaltending that needed a huge upgrade.

Prsonally i want to see dead weight traded at the deadline. MacArthur, Connolly, Lombardi, and Steckel should all without a doubt go. Bozak should probably go as well. Would have good deadline value for a guy who at the end of the day doesnt look like he can truly cut it in a top 6 role. Lupul i could go either way, sign him or trade him, depends how enticing the packages are.

So dead weight = gone. Assuming we drafted high enough to get say Barkov, also draft a top goalie prospect with high(ish) pick from Bozak trade. Then from there i think we could realistically start building instead of rebuilding. Barkov, Kessel, and JVR as the top pieces to build around up front, to a lesser extent Kadri and all our other prospects/Grabo/Kulemin. Phaneuf, Rielly Gardiner, etc to build around on the blueline.

Try and get Backstrom, Getzlaf, and/or Perry in free agency. Backstrom specifically, offer a big two year contract, we have the cap space. He would buy us time to find the longterm solution.

But there are a ton of assumptions in there. Namely us doing poor enough to draft that high this year and Kessel/Phaneuf wanting to stay. If it sounds like one or both may not want to resign, Nonis shouldnt hesitate. Get us high picks and top prospects if possible. That will take a few more hears though. But far far better than trading for Luongo and "going for it" without that top centre piece

If I were Nonnis,I would have to seriously consider trading Kessel and Phaneuff.Other than the Gardiner trade,Burke left little to hang his hat on.

 

[charliolemieux]

We must drive the point home.

"Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them."

Courtnall for Kordic,Kurvers for Scott Niedermayer,Clark for Luongo,The Nolan trade,Rask for Raycroft,Kessel(UFA) for Seguin and Hamilton.

And they still want more? Let me think,why does this franchise suck?

There is one huge difference that people seem to overlook.

Kessel is and elite player. When the deal was made he was a very young elite player.

THe list of players who have more goals than Kessel since he has been a Leaf is very short. That list has names like Stamkos and Ovechkin on it, and not many more.

All the other trades were for scrubs or old over the hill players. I know you would love to lump the KEssel deal in with the worst of all time but it just simply isn't.

The Steen + Coli for Stempniak deal was worse and did more damage to this franchise than the KEssel trade.

 

[darrylsittler27]

No.

That is Burke's short cut all over again.

The "proper" rebuild is to sell off everything for prospects and picks. Then ice what is basically an AHL team and lose for a few years drafting very early.


NO thank you. This team is close to being a contender. One more crappy year to draft our #1C and pick up a #1G then begin our climb up the ladder.


What do you want to do trade Phaneuf and Kessel for Picks?

I am saying trade them for more appropiate players.Lets be honest,we only have 2 star players.Kessel and Gardiner.Do you really think anyone will give you a star center for any other players? Would I trade Kessel and Phaneuff to get one? Yes! We still don't know if JVR will have injury issues.This team isn't as great as some pump it up to be.

 

[charliolemieux]

If I were Nonnis,I would have to seriously consider trading Kessel and Phaneuff.Other than the Gardiner trade,Burke left little to hang his hat on.

Get real man.

Nonis has even said the team is in way better shape than it was 4 years ago.

 

[Leafidelity]

The Steen + Coli for Stempniak deal was worse and did more damage to this franchise than the KEssel trade.

I'd agree with that. Steen would be a HUGE asset to this team. Stick him between Kessel and Lupul and you have your defense conscious centerman.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

There is no doubt we have suffered since Sundin left.We need a true number one center and the likes of Kessel goes wasted without one.How else but through the draft do we get one? Trade,we have no bait,except Gardiner.I am tired of these patchwork oranges which clearly don't work.This team is 3 stars from a cup,one we may already have in Gardiner/Reilly. However, we do not have a stud rugged defensive stay at home Dman.Reimer may return to form but he is young.Our best bet has to be high draft picks. Luongo may mean playoffs but after our first round elimination, what then?

Here's the problem: you perceive this as a strategy with gaurantees yet don't see the fairly obvious flaw. This guy did: "Would you like to live in an imaginary world; where there is a designed approach that guarantees ultimate success; which could be done at any time for the duration of 2 years? Otherwise; do you like losing?"

 

[darrylsittler27]

You made up the scenario.

Why are we playing pretend? You can't make up a scenario and call it an answer. What if Matt Finn becomes the greatest defenseman of all time?

What if Kessel scored 40 goals for Boston? Not only didn't happen,could never happen.They wanted him gone.

Kessel walking and at least Seguin turning into a star,is highly plausible.

 

[TieClark]

The Leafs have no reason to tank at this point. They're building a good, young group of players at the moment. To trade a 24 year old top 5 scorer in the league, a 27 year old #1 Dman when he's on his game, etc. just to tank and get some prospects that hopefully can turn out as good as them doesn't make any sense. Teams like Calgary where their best players are in their late 30's are the ones that trade them for picks and prospects... not teams like Toronto. People have this illusion that the only way to win is to trade all of your good players and get high draft picks

 

[charliolemieux]

I am saying trade them for more appropiate players.Lets be honest,we only have 2 star players.Kessel and Gardiner.Do you really think anyone will give you a star center for any other players? Would I trade Kessel and Phaneuff to get one? Yes! We still don't know if JVR will have injury issues.This team isn't as great as some pump it up to be.

And it is a lot closer to being a consistant playoff contender than most people realise.

Why do you trade a 25yr old PPG scoring winger when you can offer him more money and longer term than anyone?

This UFA boogy man some fool started going on about months ago, is just rediculous.

IF Phil won't sign then sure trade him. But don't trade him for the sake of trading him. This kid is just realising his potential.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I'd agree with that. Steen would be a HUGE asset to this team. Stick him between Kessel and Lupul and you have your defense conscious centerman.

I've said that and been wondering it for a while.

 

[rdawg1234]

What if Kessel scored 40 goals for Boston? Not only didn't happen,could never happen.They wanted him gone.

Kessel walking and at least Seguin turning into a star,is highly plausible.

he scored 36 for them, pretty close

Edit: you could say any guy close to the end of his contract is possible of walking.

We have no idea if kessel walks, I dont know why everyone is so sure of it

 

[darrylsittler27]

I guaranteed nothing.

Here's the problem: you perceive this as a strategy with gaurantees yet don't see the fairly obvious flaw. This guy did: "Would you like to live in an imaginary world; where there is a designed approach that guarantees ultimate success; which could be done at any time for the duration of 2 years? Otherwise; do you like losing?"

Based on history and odds,drafting high is the best bet.The debate now is how close is this team? I will go with 5th worst in the NHL,with the current roster.

 

[charliolemieux]

What if Kessel scored 40 goals for Boston? Not only didn't happen,could never happen.They wanted him gone.

Kessel walking and at least Seguin turning into a star,is highly plausible.

Seguin getting jumped by angry maids for being a slob, and breaking both ankles could happen too.

 

[charliolemieux]

Based on history and odds,drafting high is the best bet.The debate now is how close is this team? I will go with 5th worst in the NHL,with the current roster.

YOu can suck for a long time before he stars align and you get he pieces you need to move forward.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Based on history and odds,drafting high is the best bet.The debate now is how close is this team? I will go with 5th worst in the NHL,with the current roster.

Yes, if you finish dead last and some years second last, you'll get what you are after. If you don't?

 

[Leafidelity]

What if Kessel scored 40 goals for Boston? Not only didn't happen,could never happen.They wanted him gone.

Kessel walking and at least Seguin turning into a star,is highly plausible.

What if Kessel continues to be a star and Seguin asks for a trade?

 

[darrylsittler27]

Ok I will get real.

Get real man.

Nonis has even said the team is in way better shape than it was 4 years ago.

5th last. What would you expect Nonnis to say? "This team sucks!"

 

[Morbo]

If Kessel didn't want to re-sign, I highly doubt the Leafs just let him walk away. That would be a disaster and wouldn't be allowed to happen.

 

[charliolemieux]

I'd agree with that. Steen would be a HUGE asset to this team. Stick him between Kessel and Lupul and you have your defense conscious centerman.

Who has the size strength AND offensive talent to make the line a true #1 unit.

IF Bozak can score 50pts Steen would be in the 60-70pt range.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't know how to set up a poll but I am curious. Now that we have seen how horrible Burke's improper shortcut,I dont have a plan works. Are Leaf fans prepared to rebuild properly or are we looking to make the playoffs right away and of course lose? If one looks openly at the rest of the east,we have no chance now or even with Luongo. Will we now repeat the mistakes of the last 46 years or do a proper rebuild which might take 2 years or even less? Thoughts?

I think the Leafs should trade two firsts and a second for Jeff Skinner.

Then trade Phaneuf for Luongo and Ballard.

 

[darrylsittler27]

That's easy.

What if Kessel continues to be a star and Seguin asks for a trade?

Seguin would get them quite a bit.

 

[darrylsittler27]

A bit hopeful.

I think the Leafs should trade two firsts and a second for Jeff Skinner.

Then trade Phaneuf for Luongo and Ballard.

Carolina won't trade Skinner and Gillis wont take Phaneuff for Luongo.