Are Leaf fans prepared to do a proper rebuild?

[The Apologist]

You don't know your prospects if you think he isn't going to get a good chance to play. I'm not saying he'll jump into our 1st line center. I would like it if he became our second/third line center for the first year, preferrably 2nd line since he'd get more opportunities there.

He'd get a chance, and by February half of LN will be calling him a complete bust.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I think many now realize Kadri is not a star.

He may become a consistent 50 pt. guy but Burke said "This kid will be a star in this league!" Four years of horrible hockey and all he got was Reilly,not much of an accomplishment.If Kessel walks,a drunk monkey with a dartboard could do better.

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

A lot of us always were. That's what I thought Burke was coming in to do. And I'm not talking about tanking and pulling an Edmonton. But Burke blew that out of the water by trying to rush everything with the Kessel trade, which killed him as GM. I know a lot of people are sick of hearing about this deal, but really, it's the most important Leaf trade since the Gilmour acquisition one, and it set the table for the next five years. Pretty hard not to talk about it.

 

[darrylsittler27]

We must not only talk about it...

We must drive the point home.

"Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them."

Courtnall for Kordic,Kurvers for Scott Niedermayer,Clark for Luongo,The Nolan trade,Rask for Raycroft,Kessel(UFA) for Seguin and Hamilton.

And they still want more? Let me think,why does this franchise suck?

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

A portion of Leaf fans think they're ready to tank, but they aren't. They will always want the guy we didn't draft, the guy we didn't sign will always be better and the guys we do draft will always be busts when they don't win MVP in their first season.

That describes a good portion of the fan base of every pro sports team on the planet. It's not unique to the Leafs. And I maintain that the vast majority of Leafs fans would have been thrilled if Burke had made smarter trades and kept those Kessel picks. That deal was a huge gamble where Burke went all-in. And a ton of us, both here and elsewhere, said this very loudly at the time.

Also, tell me this. How does any Leafs fan stay patient and not expect playoffs right away and a super-fast reconstruction of the team when the freaking GM pulls a move like this and tells everyone the future is now? It's absurd to blame the fans for all of this when Burke himself is the one who set the table for the increased expectations.

 

[The Apologist]

He may become a consistent 50 pt. guy but Burke said "This kid will be a star in this league!" Four years of horrible hockey and all he got was Reilly,not much of an accomplishment.If Kessel walks,a drunk monkey with a dartboard could do better.

If Reilly busts he got nothing... Man, what a terrible record....

 

[Leafidelity]

Phaneuf has never made an All Star team, unless you're talking about the annual exhibition game that he's 5 years removed from, which means nothing. Komisarek is an "all star" if that's a metric.

5 years removed? He was there last year with Lupul and Kessel.

 

[The Apologist]

A lot of us always were. That's what I thought Burke was coming in to do. And I'm not talking about tanking and pulling an Edmonton. But Burke blew that out of the water by trying to rush everything with the Kessel trade, which killed him as GM. I know a lot of people are sick of hearing about this deal, but really, it's the most important Leaf trade since the Gilmour acquisition one, and it set the table for the next five years. Pretty hard not to talk about it.

It must be because it ignores the fact that he not only added a 21 year old star, but a #1 dman, Gardiner, Franson....

Tell me this, after that first season, how many of Burkes trades weren't geared toward a rebuild?

 

[The Apologist]

5 years removed? He was there last year with Lupul and Kessel.

Shhhh, facts have no place here...

 

[Cor]

5 years removed? He was there last year with Lupul and Kessel.

EDIT: NVM, wiki isn't a credible source :$

 

[The Apologist]

That describes a good portion of the fan base of every pro sports team on the planet. It's not unique to the Leafs. And I maintain that the vast majority of Leafs fans would have been thrilled if Burke had made smarter trades and kept those Kessel picks. That deal was a huge gamble where Burke went all-in. And a ton of us, both here and elsewhere, said this very loudly at the time.

Also, tell me this. How does any Leafs fan stay patient and not expect playoffs right away and a super-fast reconstruction of the team when the freaking GM pulls a move like this and tells everyone the future is now? It's absurd to blame the fans for all of this when Burke himself is the one who set the table for the increased expectations.

Ok tell me this. Burke doesnt do this trade, drafts Seguin, who doesn't tear it up, meanwhile Kessel scores 40 in Boston. What is the reaction here? Be honest....

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

It must be because it ignores the fact that he not only added a 21 year old star, but a #1 dman, Gardiner, Franson....

So what? Anyone could dump a ton of assets on one young star. The point is building a team and developing a solid depth chart. Burke failed terribly at that.

And Franson? LOL I like the guy more than most, but jeez, he's barely being re-signed on a cheap one-year deal. He's a long, long way from a big building block.

 

[Cor]

Ok tell me this. Burke doesnt do this trade, drafts Seguin, who doesn't tear it up, meanwhile Kessel scores 40 in Boston. What is the reaction here? Be honest....

Well, if it is widely known that we could have got Kessel, then the same haters would still be hating

 

[TootooTrain]

Ok tell me this. Burke doesnt do this trade, drafts Seguin, who doesn't tear it up, meanwhile Kessel scores 40 in Boston. What is the reaction here? Be honest....

What do you mean? The Bruins would have a heck of a player. Since the trade didn't happen I would have no reason to hold any feelings towards/against the Bruins or Kessel.

 

[Atomos2]

It's not about what we want. Its about what leafs management thinks we want which is a whole other animal in itself.

 

[The Apologist]

So what? Anyone could dump a ton of assets on one young star. The point is building a team and developing a solid depth chart. Burke failed terribly at that.

And Franson? LOL I like the guy more than most, but jeez, he's barely being re-signed on a cheap one-year deal. He's a long, long way from a big building block.

So any gm could have traded Beachemin for a solid winger and a top 3 defenseman?
Any gm could trade garbage for a two time all star defenseman?
Any gm could trade Lebda for a young defenseman with worlds of potential? And so what if it's a one year deal, he's still ours right?

Burke has added plenty to this team through some incredible deals.

Man, obviously this is another case of 'let's not ever give any credit, no matter the case'.

 

[The Apologist]

What do you mean? The Bruins would have a heck of a player. Since the trade didn't happen I would have no reason to hold any feelings towards/against the Bruins or Kessel. If the negotiations were made public, I still wouldn't have been that bothered by not getting Kessel because it was an offer sheet.

Bet that same sentiment wouldn't apply to the Leafs....

 

[darrylsittler27]

None.

Ok tell me this. Burke doesnt do this trade, drafts Seguin, who doesn't tear it up, meanwhile Kessel scores 40 in Boston. What is the reaction here? Be honest....

Kessel scored 38 goals and we finished 5th last while Burke stubbornly held on to Wilson,his buddy, at everyone else's expense.He was a truly terrible GM and cannot assess talent and is delusional.He was surpised he was fired? Burke was all hot air and no substance.5th last and he thinks we owe him.If Kessel walks the suffering he will put on Leaf nation for the sake of his ego will be legendary.It is always if only with Burke,excuses for failure.

 

[rojac]

It's not about what we want. Its about what leafs management thinks we want which is a whole other animal in itself.

Or it's very possible that the vast majority of Leafs fans doesn't want what people on a board heavily about prospects wants. This board only represents a small part of the Leafs fan base and I doubt it is representative.

 

[The Apologist]

Kessel scored 38 goals and we finished 5th last while Burke stubbornly held on to Wilson,his buddy, at everyone else's expense.He was a truly terrible GM and cannot assess talent and is delusional.He was surpised he was fired? Burke was all hot air and no substance.5th last and he thinks we owe him.If Kessel walks the suffering he will put on Leaf nation for the sake of his ego will be legendary.It is always if only with Burke,excuses for failure.

Excellent rant, now answer the question.

 

[darrylsittler27]

5th last.

So any gm could have traded Beachemin for a solid winger and a top 3 defenseman?
Any gm could trade garbage for a two time all star defenseman?
Any gm could trade Lebda for a young defenseman with worlds of potential? And so what if it's a one year deal, he's still ours right?

Burke has added plenty to this team through some incredible deals.

Man, obviously this is another case of 'let's not ever give any credit, no matter the case'.

Franson has a world of potential(good he cost $7 million)? Yup,always pie in the sky.Watch the ball,5th last!
4 years of garbage hockey.What happens if Kessel walks? Ever think about that?

 

[Vexed]

Franson has a world of potential(good he cost $7 million)? Yup,always pie in the sky.Watch the ball,5th last!
4 years of garbage hockey.What happens if Kessel walks? Ever think about that?

Now that we can offer the extra year, I'm far less concerned.

 

[Leafidelity]

What happens if Kessel walks? Ever think about that?

Why are Leafs fans so insecure about things like this? We're the only franchise that frets FAs two years before they come up.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Here is the answer.

Excellent rant, now answer the question.

What will be the reaction if Kessel walks as a UFA and Seguin and Hamilton become stars?

 

[613Leafer]

Full rebuild? Aka sell off Kessel/Phaneuf and start from scratch?

If we get a top 5 pick this draft, it might not be necessary. Blueline looks set longterm. If we got MacKinnon, Barkov, or another top C, then up front would look MUCH better longterm.

It would really just be goaltending that needed a huge upgrade.

Prsonally i want to see dead weight traded at the deadline. MacArthur, Connolly, Lombardi, and Steckel should all without a doubt go. Bozak should probably go as well. Would have good deadline value for a guy who at the end of the day doesnt look like he can truly cut it in a top 6 role. Lupul i could go either way, sign him or trade him, depends how enticing the packages are.

So dead weight = gone. Assuming we drafted high enough to get say Barkov, also draft a top goalie prospect with high(ish) pick from Bozak trade. Then from there i think we could realistically start building instead of rebuilding. Barkov, Kessel, and JVR as the top pieces to build around up front, to a lesser extent Kadri and all our other prospects/Grabo/Kulemin. Phaneuf, Rielly Gardiner, etc to build around on the blueline.

Try and get Backstrom, Getzlaf, and/or Perry in free agency. Backstrom specifically, offer a big two year contract, we have the cap space. He would buy us time to find the longterm solution.

But there are a ton of assumptions in there. Namely us doing poor enough to draft that high this year and Kessel/Phaneuf wanting to stay. If it sounds like one or both may not want to resign, Nonis shouldnt hesitate. Get us high picks and top prospects if possible. That will take a few more hears though. But far far better than trading for Luongo and "going for it" without that top centre piece