PTO: anyone interested in Raffi Torres (Hurricanes offer PTO)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bourne Endeavor

Registered User
Apr 6, 2009
38,911
7,855
Montreal, Quebec
Nope. I had no love loss when Vancouver didn't re-sign him, and I don't now. He's a meat head who can't seem to understand you can't just recklessly charge into everyone. Being injury prone only makes him more of a liability.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
50,005
23,566
Bay Area
Y'all are missing the point, which is that Torres cannot play hockey anymore. He is cooked. He cannot skate.
 

eoin92

Registered User
Jun 14, 2013
4,766
2,115
I would absolutely take a chance on him never. I don't understand how this guy has not been suspended indefinitely from the NHL.
 

bigwillie

Registered User
Jul 14, 2006
7,032
24
Portland, OR
"Deserves one more kick at the can."

Yes, he deserves to go away kicking a can when no more NHL teams will hire him to be a headhunting waste of a roster space. The guy had the talent to actually stick to a roster without the ********, but he time and again chose to be a predatory piece of skating garbage who was more interested in inflicting pain, to the extent of often injuring player, than he was anything else on the ice. **** him. Let him go find a job where he will be arrested if he purposefully gives an unsuspecting person a concussion or a broken jaw.

His only saving grace these days is that he can't even skate well enough to jump into a hit and put someone on IR.

Like I said earlier, the only difference between your disgustingly self-righteous indignation and a spot amongst the legends of hockey is maybe ten years. You act like he went out onto the ice with the sole purpose of ending lives and went so far as to stab a guy with his skate at one point, when in reality, all he was doing was playing the game exactly like he was taught to - hard shoulder checks to the chins of opponents with their heads down, admiring passes or watching the puck in their feet.

Does he deserve to be punished for failing to adapt to the modern game? Absolutely. But he doesn't deserve this disgusting holier than thou attitude where everyone acts like they didn't love Scott Stevens or Mark Messier or whoever used to hit in the exact same style but got heaps of praise instead of resentment.
 

PG Canuck

Registered User
Mar 29, 2010
63,606
25,637
The ironic part of this thread is for as bad as people say Torres is, he's ended exactly 0 careers with his hits, yet his was ended by a knee on knee hit.

If I didn't know any better, I would've thought Torres ended multiple lives reading this thread.
 

ThirdManIn

Registered User
Aug 9, 2009
55,115
4,034
The ironic part of this thread is for as bad as people say Torres is, he's ended exactly 0 careers with his hits, yet his was ended by a knee on knee hit.

That isn't ironic at all, and it is a poor defense of the guy to say he hasn't ended any careers. Oh boy! Isn't he just the saint now that you put it that way! :sarcasm:

He has time and again been suspended for lengthy amounts of games for absolutely reckless and dangerous hits. Ending a career isn't a criterion for a player to be dirty, but refusing to change your game when you realize that it not only earns you suspensions but it hurts people at a higher rate than should be considered acceptable for any player surely is a criterion for that.

As someone else said, it's not from a lack of trying either. The guy was too talented to play the way he did, he displayed an unwillingness to change for far too long, and the league is better off without him. When the biggest defense of the guy was "look! He has gone a calendar year without a suspension!" people should realize he is beyond defending.
 

David Bruce Banner

Acid Raven Bed Burn
Mar 25, 2008
8,183
3,563
Waaaaay over there
He's old. He's fragile. And he's one borderline hit away from a lifetime suspension. He's done.
Even if those weren't enough red flags, iirc he has a rep as a locker room cancer as well.
 

bigwillie

Registered User
Jul 14, 2006
7,032
24
Portland, OR
He's old. He's fragile. And he's one borderline hit away from a lifetime suspension. He's done.
Even if those weren't enough red flags, iirc he has a rep as a locker room cancer as well.

He was very highly spoken of by Sharks teammates, both on the big club and down in the A when he was trying to rehab.
 

x Tame Impala

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2011
28,728
13,727
As a Hawks fan this thread is so refreshing to read. I remember in 2012 after the Hossa hit how obnoxious some people were in their defense for him but now it seems like everyone understands how much of a dirt bag he is
 

ThirdManIn

Registered User
Aug 9, 2009
55,115
4,034
Like I said earlier, the only difference between your disgustingly self-righteous indignation and a spot amongst the legends of hockey is maybe ten years. You act like he went out onto the ice with the sole purpose of ending lives and went so far as to stab a guy with his skate at one point, when in reality, all he was doing was playing the game exactly like he was taught to - hard shoulder checks to the chins of opponents with their heads down, admiring passes or watching the puck in their feet.

Does he deserve to be punished for failing to adapt to the modern game? Absolutely. But he doesn't deserve this disgusting holier than thou attitude where everyone acts like they didn't love Scott Stevens or Mark Messier or whoever used to hit in the exact same style but got heaps of praise instead of resentment.

I do not act like he went out there with the sole purpose of ending lives, but nice strawman there. He went out there with the sole purpose of throwing high, dangerous hits. First and foremost in his mind was not to play the puck if there was the opportunity to hit someone. Now, I don't begrudge a player for playing physically, and I see value in doing so. I do begrudge a player for refusing for years to take responsibility for actions that not only caused injury, but caused suspensions of the player who, for reasons passing understanding, saw no problem with it. There are two kinds of mistakes in this world: the kind you learn from, and the kind you don't. Once you continue to repeat the same "mistakes" without learning from them it becomes obvious that there is intent, so they are no longer mistakes.

You bring up Scott Stevens and Mark Messier, two guys who would have been suspended numerous times in the same era as Torres, but you have no way of knowing if they would have actually learned from it. Torres played during a time when there was much more understanding of the devastating affects of traumatic brain injury. Those guys didn't. Torres had no respect for his fellow players as long as they wore another jersey. Messier didn't either, really, and plenty of people, myself included, call him a dirty player. He just happened to score a **** ton of points and history glosses over his dirty streak. That isn't my fault, and you throwing me in with these unnamed people who seemingly love(d) how Messier played is ridiculous. It doesn't take away my ability and right to call Torres out for his disregard and recklessness, something that was brought out on the ice so often, even after numerous fines and suspensions, that it can no longer be considered to be careless. It can only be considered to be intentionally and unnecessarily violent, which is saying something in the world of hockey. By all means, defend the guy. I can only assume you're a Sharks fan, and I know a few Sharks fans around here like to defend him. That's fine (though the favorite refrain out of San Jose and in defense of him there for a while was "he's played [insert a time that was laughably short] without a suspension, so he's changed!"). It doesn't mean he deserves another chance to show he has learned absolutely nothing, and it doesn't mean that he was a very talented player who decided it was more appropriate to drive shoulders into people's faces and leave his skates to vicious, predatory hits well after medical evidence was readily available to show just how damaging those kinds of idiotic plays could actually be. Quite simply, any positive result on the ice was not worth the risk.

And since you seem to like to exaggerate things wildly, please don't try to spin this into me being against hitting - I'm against the unnecessary ******** Torres brought all too often. In fact, do me a favor and take your baseless exaggerations elsewhere. Thanks.
 
Last edited:

CrypTic

Registered User
Oct 2, 2013
5,069
81
I do not act like he went out there with the sole purpose of ending lives, but nice strawman there. He went out there with the sole purpose of throwing high, dangerous hits. First and foremost in his mind was not to play the puck if there was the opportunity to hit someone. Now, I don't begrudge a player for playing physically, and I see value in doing so. I do begrudge a player for refusing for years to take responsibility for actions that not only caused injury, but caused suspensions of the player who, for reasons passing understanding, saw no problem with it. There are two kinds of mistakes in this world: the kind you learn from, and the kind you don't. Once you continue to repeat the same "mistakes" without learning from them it becomes obvious that there is intent, so they are no longer mistakes.

You bring up Scott Stevens and Mark Messier, two guys who would have been suspended numerous times in the same era as Torres, but you have no way of knowing if they would have actually learned from it. Torres played during a time when there was much more understanding of the devastating affects of traumatic brain injury. Those guys didn't. Torres had no respect for his fellow players as long as they wore another jersey. Messier didn't either, really, and plenty of people, myself included, call him a dirty player. He just happened to score a **** ton of points and history glosses over his dirty streak. That isn't my fault, and you throwing me in with these unnamed people who seemingly love(d) how Messier played is ridiculous. It doesn't take away my ability and right to call Torres out for his disregard and recklessness, something that was brought out on the ice so often, even after numerous fines and suspensions, that it can no longer be considered to be careless. It can only be considered to be intentionally and unnecessarily violent, which is saying something in the world of hockey. By all means, defend the guy. I can only assume you're a Sharks fan, and I know a few Sharks fans around here like to defend him. That's fine (though the favorite refrain out of San Jose and in defense of him there for a while was "he's played [insert a time that was laughably short] without a suspension, so he's changed!"). It doesn't mean he deserves another chance to show he has learned absolutely nothing, and it doesn't mean that he was a very talented player who decided it was more appropriate to drive shoulders into people's faces and leave his skates to vicious, predatory hits well after medical evidence was readily available to show just how damaging those kinds of idiotic plays could actually be. Quite simply, any positive result on the ice was not worth the risk.

And since you seem to like to exaggerate things wildly, please don't try to spin this into me being against hitting - I'm against the unnecessary ******** Torres brought all too often. In fact, do me a favor and take your baseless exaggerations elsewhere. Thanks.

I'm in the minority but I'm a Sharks' fan so dismiss this if you want. I think that there is a good chance that Raffi's judgment was impaired by TBIs. It would explain why he didn't change his behavior even when continuing to make bad, dangerous hits hurt him as well as his team (and his victims). Perseverance and inability to adapt or learn are common problems with TBIs.

Because of that, I think you go to far in assuming that there was intent (e..g., saying that he went out there with the sole purpose of throwing dangerous hits or that hitting ppl was first and foremost in his mind) and putting moral blame on him. Might you be right and his poor judgment had nothing to do with brain injuries or defects and instead shows a complete and vicious disregard of the well being of others and a premeditated plan to hit others when he had the chance? Sure. But to dismiss the possibility of him wanting and planning to make better decisions but not being able to do that in a situation that requires quick judgments out of hand and act like the only possible conclusion is that he intended to injure ppl is going too far IMO.

It doesn't matter much bc, regardless of the reason for his actions, he shouldn't be on the ice putting others at risk. He shouldn't be playing in any league. It's not fair to the other players and it's not good for the game.

I realize this is an unpopular opinion but I've known a fair number of ppl with head injuries and Raffi's behavior is consistent with what I've seen with some of them. You plan to do something different the next time y happens but when you need to make a quick judgment, you make the same bad one you'd promised yourself you'd never make again.
 

PAZ

.
Jul 14, 2011
17,714
10,213
BC
The sad thing is (well not really sad), is that all these dirty pests like Cooke, Torres, and Avery were actually pretty decent hockey players. They just decided it was more fun injuring other players than playing hockey.
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
16,797
6,261
Does he deserve to be punished for failing to adapt to the modern game? Absolutely. But he doesn't deserve this disgusting holier than thou attitude where everyone acts like they didn't love Scott Stevens or Mark Messier or whoever used to hit in the exact same style but got heaps of praise instead of resentment.

That is doing a disservice to the dozens and dozens of players who did adapt this aspect of the game to the modern rules.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

Registered User
Dec 28, 2008
52,383
9,266
530
That isn't ironic at all, and it is a poor defense of the guy to say he hasn't ended any careers. Oh boy! Isn't he just the saint now that you put it that way! :sarcasm:

He has time and again been suspended for lengthy amounts of games for absolutely reckless and dangerous hits. Ending a career isn't a criterion for a player to be dirty, but refusing to change your game when you realize that it not only earns you suspensions but it hurts people at a higher rate than should be considered acceptable for any player surely is a criterion for that.

As someone else said, it's not from a lack of trying either. The guy was too talented to play the way he did, he displayed an unwillingness to change for far too long, and the league is better off without him. When the biggest defense of the guy was "look! He has gone a calendar year without a suspension!" people should realize he is beyond defending.
I don't believe I've made any defense for his actions; Just pointing out how hyperbolic people are about him. He didn't adapt and that's why he was punished accordingly, but he wasn't nearly as dangerous as he is being made out to be.
 

CraigBillington

Registered User
Dec 10, 2010
1,782
1,630
can I ask why would TOR would do that to themselves...?

I despise that team but even I know that they have too much respect to bring in a guy like that

I dont see him sign anywhere... maybe AHL/Europe if he still wanna play

Except he only wants an NHL deal
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad