World Cup: Anyone else think the Pools are rigged?

[catnip]

Well, at the end of the day, it's just a pre-season PR tour so does it really matter if it's rigged?

 

[llwyd]

Finland has said great success in the past but on paper today we have the 3rd worst team.

Yeah, like we were rated on paper in those past tournaments also. Us punching above our paper strength has been so consistent since forever that I would think it's a kind of feature of our hockey and not a random accident, as it seems to be treated every year...

 

[caymanmew]

I assume they made the groups based on trying to get the top 4 teams through.

USA, Canada, Sweden, and Finland all can clearly get through with these groups.

Of course lesser teams (Europe, Russia) can win a spot but in all likelihood you get the top 4 teams through the groups and into the semifinals.

Also this sets up a possible USA vs Canada final (if US can get past the semi's) which would be good for ratings.

 

[behemolari]

Finland has said great success in the past but on paper today we have the 3rd worst team.

this has been the case every single time

i really hope the team europe becomes another Finland, keep rigging

 

[JackSlater]

Ironic. Perhaps they should have made their opinion known before NHL decided to include these two joke(r) teams.

Hockey Canada was actually in favour of it (arrogance, I would say) and USA Hockey didn't like it. I agree that both should have said no to the joke teams.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Should of swapped the Czech's for Russia

Canada
Europe
Russia
USA

Czech Republic
Finland
North America
Sweden

Not that it really matters though.

 

[Mestaruus]

Yes it is rigged or intentionally done but it's been a while since they decided to make these groups so now I'm OK with it.

Just imagine if U23 young guns take one of the top 2 spots, that means two of Sweden, Finland or Russia will be out.

 

[Mestaruus]

My rank is

Canada
USA/Russia/Sweden
Finland/U-24
Europe
Czechs

I almost agree.

Canada
---
USA/Sweden
---
Finland/Russia/NA Young Guns
---
Czech/Europe

Why? Well Finland has less stars then Russia but Finland has better recent history in these best on best tournaments, so that makes it even.

Czech & Europe are even because Europe has more stars yes, but Czech is one nation and much like Finland has that teamplay and always performs better than expected as the underdog and they have a goal to play for their nation unlike Team Europe.

The Young Guns are a true dark horse and I think everyone respects them. Will be interesting to see if their lack of experience will matter or not.

 

[Seanaconda]

Hockey Canada was actually in favour of it (arrogance, I would say) and USA Hockey didn't like it. I agree that both should have said no to the joke teams.

Hockey canada almost never takes young players to play significant roles (recently) why would they be against it

 

[MXD]

They're not ideal, but...
With Canada and USA being obviously in a different division than Team NA, well, I feel like every other tweak would be like shuffling deck chairs.

 

[JackSlater]

Hockey canada almost never takes young players to play significant roles (recently) why would they be against it

Because there are times when the young players do take roles on the team, and more importantly so that players don't play against their own country in a supposedly international tournament. They've admitted that they don't like the idea of players playing against their own country.

 

[cutchemist42]

I mean, we kinda figured no quarter finals to ensure no surprises, I think thats a popular opinion here.

 

[Lataba76]

You think that USA is a part of "the big 4" in this tournament? I'd rate them as #6 personally but I see no way of them being above #5.

And I disagree, USA is an easier opponent for Finland than any team in Group B.

Oh, and you might want to take a look at the history of olympics and best-on-best tournaments. Let me assist:

2014 Finland Bronze

2010 Finland Bronze

2006 Finland Silver

2004 WC Finland Silver

Hence, I'm curious about why you think Finland isn't a part of the "big 4". I'd say that Finland has been the second-best hockey country in the world in best-on-best tournaments relatively recently. Either way, you can't really argue this for anyone but Sweden and even then Finland would be #3 pretty comfortably.

Some people don t learning! Despite ohter results than expected. For much people is it to difficult to learning as well .

 

[surixon]

The current world rankings:

Group A
Canada 1
USA 4
Czech 6

Avg 3.66

Group B

Russia 2
Finland 3
Sweden 5

Avg 3.33

So group B is slightly tougher when you account for the IIHF official ranking system. Hardly what I would call rigged. It would also depend on what your thoughts are for the strength of team Europe and team NA.

 

[Lataba76]

So let's get this straight,

Finland's placements in last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

3. 3. 2. 2.

USA's placements in the last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

4. 2. 8. 4.

Russia's placements in the last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

5. 6. 4. 6.


And you are saying Finland doesn't belong ahead of these countries?

Here's Sweden:

2. 5. 1. 5.

I'd argue that Finland would belong ahead of even Sweden but I do recognize the value of a gold medal.

How often do you think that Finland had the highest "NHL salary" or whatever metric you want to use in these best-on-best tournaments? Is that more important than results now?

For me is the average finnsh Hockey-Player the most completly Player in the World.
This is the secred of success. The complete package is unique in Hockey-World!

 

[PWEI67]

Given the top 2 teams from each pool advanced, I guess they decided to rig this tournament to make it as likely as possible that US and Canada advance - giving them the 2 weakest teams in the tournament. Group B is loaded in comparison

Group A
Canada
USA
Europe
Czech Republic

Group B
Russia
Sweden
Finland
North America

Just seems wrong to me that two of those teams in group B won't move on. Maybe I am missing something? Or was this intentionally set up this way to get the best ratings?

I totally believe the pools were rigged in order to set up a Canada - USA final. I have not been following this closely at all, but for what I understand the top two teams in each pool make it on, with them playing the cross over team from the other pool. Each almost guaranteed that Canada - US will finish 1 -2 in their pool, giving them each a very good chance to make it to the final.

 

[hitmen19]

I totally believe the pools were rigged in order to set up a Canada - USA final. I have not been following this closely at all, but for what I understand the top two teams in each pool make it on, with them playing the cross over team from the other pool. Each almost guaranteed that Canada - US will finish 1 -2 in their pool, giving them each a very good chance to make it to the final.

so its already rigged that Canada will beat Sweden in semi's and usa will beat Russia or finland in the other semi? How are these results guaranteed? So if these results happen, they happened because it was rigged and not on merit?

 

[Bank Shot]

Given the top 2 teams from each pool advanced, I guess they decided to rig this tournament to make it as likely as possible that US and Canada advance - giving them the 2 weakest teams in the tournament. Group B is loaded in comparison

Group A
Canada
USA
Europe
Czech Republic

Group B
Russia
Sweden
Finland
North America

Just seems wrong to me that two of those teams in group B won't move on. Maybe I am missing something? Or was this intentionally set up this way to get the best ratings?

I think team North America (AKA Young guns hype train) is not nearly as good as the prospect-philes on HFboards think they will be, and team Europe is better than that same group thinks they are.

 

[Kardi]

They didn't do a draw like the champs league in soccer?

 

[um]

I'd rank the Teams

Canada
Sweden
USA
Russia
NA U23
Europe
Finland
Czech Republic

So I think it's perfectly fair, but they defiantly rigged it for ratings.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I could honestly see Team NA and Finland advancing from Group B. It's true that Team Europe and Czech Rep. don't stand a chance in Group A but they wouldn't no matter how they re-arranged the groups so doesn't matter much.

 

[PWEI67]

so its already rigged that Canada will beat Sweden in semi's and usa will beat Russia or finland in the other semi? How are these results guaranteed? So if these results happen, they happened because it was rigged and not on merit?

please re-read comment - I never said Canada US were guaranteed to get to the final. I said Canada US are pretty much guaranteed to finish 1 - 2 in their pool, allowing both of them to advance to the playoff round fairly easily.

 

[Puck Dogg]

I said Canada US are pretty much guaranteed to finish 1 - 2 in their pool, allowing both of them to advance to the playoff round fairly easily.

Yes, and thereby avoid facing each other in the semi's.

Both then can advance to the final and in worst case scenario with very high probability at least one of them.

The pools are set up way smarter than I even could imagine

 

[Healthy DiPietro]

So let's get this straight,

Finland's placements in last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

3. 3. 2. 2.

USA's placements in the last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

4. 2. 8. 4.

Russia's placements in the last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

5. 6. 4. 6.


And you are saying Finland doesn't belong ahead of these countries?

Here's Sweden:

2. 5. 1. 5.

I'd argue that Finland would belong ahead of even Sweden but I do recognize the value of a gold medal.

How often do you think that Finland had the highest "NHL salary" or whatever metric you want to use in these best-on-best tournaments? Is that more important than results now?

Going by NHL points and the overall status of the participating players Finland definitely isn't in the top 4 at the moment.

No one really puts any stock in silver or bronze medals. In fact I just now remembered that Sweden got silver in Sochi, that's how unimportant a non-gold is. Also, results from even four years ago aren't very relevant in terms of this tournament's ranking.

 

[DoubleGold]

I'd rank the Teams

Canada
Sweden
USA
Russia
NA U23
Europe
Finland
Czech Republic

So I think it's perfectly fair, but they defiantly rigged it for ratings.

You put Team Europe and U23 above Finland? Come on .