Angry/frustrated fans what would it take to be

[nuck]

On board again? Keeping in mind noone is getting fired.
Tough but for me bold moves would help- a piece of the core moved to help balance things out better. An out of nowhere big goalie acquisition (don't ask me how), and a different mindset surrounding this team which comes from Shanny. Change the narrative to losing is not acceptable here. No pat on the backs for regular season success. Keefe should be nervous instead of comfy

Remember how pissed so many were last year? If that rage could subside by the beginning of the season this is nothing. Add another Brodie caliber position player and fix the goalie thing and watch the bitterness melt away

 

[yubbers]

I took this year off. Like watched zero games. First year of my life I wasn't watching 90% of the games.

It took some adjusting for sure. I missed it. The fact 2 coaches with rings are available and MLSE has no interest in talking to them just solidifies we won't win with this leadership team. They're not even exploring options that could make the team better. Tells you all you need to know.

 

[Cams]

I took this year off. Like watched zero games. First year of my life I wasn't watching 90% of the games.

It took some adjusting for sure. I missed it. The fact 2 coaches with rings are available and MLSE has no interest in talking to them just solidifies we won't win with this leadership team. They're not even exploring options that could make the team better. Tells you all you need to know.

Too bad they ran of time on this.....what time is puck drop tonight?

 

[Voodoo Child]

The fact is that most of us, from Ontario at least, are fans of the team because our parents were fans of the team.

I can understand people being apathetic to sports in general and so not being fans of teams, that’s okay, but I think it’s damn shameful that lots of people hop from base to base based on what team is currently good or winning.

I could respect a Leaf fan moving to, I don’t know, Nashville and becoming a Preds fan, but you ride or you die.

Although with Covid, and that shameful performance against Montreal last year, and now this, though to be fair, they played well and the reffing was suspect all series - I still support the team, even though I don’t spend any money on Leafs merchandise, but I’m more apathetic to them overall.

They just had their best season ever and I skipped maybe 25 games. I’d never have done that 4-6 years ago.

 

[ShaneFalco]

They just had their best season ever and I skipped maybe 25 games. I’d never have done that 4-6 years ago.

I'm seeing that and hearing about it more and more.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

They just had their best season ever and I skipped maybe 25 games. I’d never have done that 4-6 years ago.

A lot of us have that natural sixth sense for hockey due to eat breathe sleeping it since we were 3-4 years old.
You can just feel and see with your own eyes there's an element of winning missing that taints all those regular season points.

I have to admit the points didn't excite me either this year. I knew coming into the season regular season would be a breeze because > 50% of NHL teams simply suck and can't keep up with us. When it comes to winning cups, where there can only be 1 winner and a good 8-10 teams who have good odds to win, Leafs are full of holes and I have lost all faith our coach and GM knows how to fix them.

It's sad because we're right on the cusp of greatness and we're throwing it away with this gm and coach.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Matthews & Marner were a combined -6 in the last 5 games against TB. I'm am not prepared to say that they are stellar playoff performers.


Perhaps if Dubas hadn't extremely overpaid the top 4, he would have had more money available for a better supporting cast.

Extremely overpaid? Have you ever bothered to look at the historical contract values since the 05 lockout? Matthews literally got the same deal cap% and term that all other elite 1C top picks received. Mcdavid and Eichel are the outliers. Crosby, Malkin, Toews, stamkos, Tavares, Kopitar, all 5-6 years at similar cap% compared to the first year of the deal.
Willy is not overpaid, I’m not even going to bother…. He sent Willy home to Sweden and Willy caved taking the deal the leafs had on the table, which is a great deal btw.
JT was offered more aav and more overall money by different teams with very different tax situations, he left money on the table.
Marner is slightly overpaid, but by what? 900k-1.5m? His comps all signed deals around 9-9.5. If Mitch signed a 6 x $10m deal in July no one bats an eye or complains about a thing. Thank Lou for that, squeezing a top 4 pick out of bonus money he would’ve earned, and Paul Marner for using Dreger as a negotiating tool.
If you want to debate that the cap is too forward heavy at the top, that’s a conversation but to say any of them are overpaid is just lazy

A lot of us have that natural sixth sense for hockey due to eat breathe sleeping it since we were 3-4 years old.
You can just feel and see with your own eyes there's an element of winning missing that taints all those regular season points.

I have to admit the points didn't excite me either this year. I knew coming into the season regular season would be a breeze because > 50% of NHL teams simply suck and can't keep up with us. When it comes to winning cups, where there can only be 1 winner and a good 8-10 teams who have good odds to win, Leafs are full of holes and I have lost all faith our coach and GM knows how to fix them.

It's sad because we're right on the cusp of greatness and we're throwing it away with this gm and coach.

Cuz the GM and coach are on the ice failing to execute. The fact guys who actually live and breathe this game see the Leafs as contenders with Kyle & Sheldon at the helm and have proven so by signing undervalue deals to get a spot on the train.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

A lot of us have that natural sixth sense for hockey due to eat breathe sleeping it since we were 3-4 years old.
You can just feel and see with your own eyes there's an element of winning missing that taints all those regular season points.

I have to admit the points didn't excite me either this year. I knew coming into the season regular season would be a breeze because > 50% of NHL teams simply suck and can't keep up with us. When it comes to winning cups, where there can only be 1 winner and a good 8-10 teams who have good odds to win, Leafs are full of holes and I have lost all faith our coach and GM knows how to fix them.

It's sad because we're right on the cusp of greatness and we're throwing it away with this gm and coach.

And Dubas was not necessary to have the core we have today. We would have all 4 without him tearing up the regular season.

 

[Voodoo Child]

I'm seeing that and hearing about it more and more.

And not to mention probably at least ten more games (including game four) where they were out of the game early and I just said f*** it and went to do something else.

But I also think Covid and the whole lockdowns and everything shut most stuff down for a long time and made people realize that in the end, sports fandom isn’t really too important in the grand scheme of things.

Your team wins the championship, great, but what does it add to your life? Bragging points on a message board?

I’ll support them and be happy if they ever win but I’m not spending a cent on any Leafs merchandise or programming (I stream all my games, I can’t say where but you probably know, cough inshallah Muhammad cough) until they make the final four.

 

[Sniper99]

I love how barely any posts in this topic are about the actual topic. Just continuing the spread of people picking fights across the entire board.

As for the actual question that this topic is asking? Win a damn playoff round! There you go. That's literally it. Show that this team can win 4 games in a playoff series.

Until then I'm content to take it easy. Was really hands off this past season and didn't show up on the boards much. I can definitely do it again without much issue. Here's hoping there's a miracle next year and that they can figure it out.

Exactly this, f*** 1967, lets end the 2004 drought first.

I was the same too, Didnt feel like coming on here most game nights Maybe watched 12 full games. Didnt draft a single Leaf in any of the drafts I was in which is a total shocker to most people as they all leave the Leafs for me.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I love how barely any posts in this topic are about the actual topic. Just continuing the spread of people picking fights across the entire board.

As for the actual question that this topic is asking? Win a damn playoff round! There you go. That's literally it. Show that this team can win 4 games in a playoff series.

Until then I'm content to take it easy. Was really hands off this past season and didn't show up on the boards much. I can definitely do it again without much issue. Here's hoping there's a miracle next year and that they can figure it out.

So if they switched places with the panthers, won the presidents trophy, won a first round matchup vs an inferior opponent then got skunked by Tampa in round 2 you’d be happier than you are now? Did you even watch the Tampa series? The leafs made them look the most human they’ve looked since the bubble. Toronto is closer than Florida to a cup and we have all our top assets in the cupboard.

And not to mention probably at least ten more games (including game four) where they were out of the game early and I just said f*** it and went to do something else.

But I also think Covid and the whole lockdowns and everything shut most stuff down for a long time and made people realize that in the end, sports fandom isn’t really too important in the grand scheme of things.

Your team wins the championship, great, but what does it add to your life? Bragging points on a message board?

I’ll support them and be happy if they ever win but I’m not spending a cent on any Leafs merchandise or programming (I stream all my games, I can’t say where but you probably know, cough inshallah Muhammad cough) until they make the final four.

Yet here you are in late may using up your time to make multi paragraph posts about a hockey team you apparently don’t follow closely….. Riiiiight

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The fact is that most of us, from Ontario at least, are fans of the team because our parents were fans of the team.

I can understand people being apathetic to sports in general and so not being fans of teams, that’s okay, but I think it’s damn shameful that lots of people hop from base to base based on what team is currently good or winning.

I could respect a Leaf fan moving to, I don’t know, Nashville and becoming a Preds fan, but you ride or you die.

Although with Covid, and that shameful performance against Montreal last year, and now this, though to be fair, they played well and the reffing was suspect all series - I still support the team, even though I don’t spend any money on Leafs merchandise, but I’m more apathetic to them overall.

They just had their best season ever and I skipped maybe 25 games. I’d never have done that 4-6 years ago.

I have never lived in Canada and I probably don't count as a Leafs fan anymore (I watched most games from late 90's to like 2018 or so, even had a stint as a mod on this board, but haven't watched the NHL in years) but if I do, I can provide for you a transplant data point.

I moved to Boston about a decade ago, less than a year after the Kessel trade, and watched the Bruins win the Stanley Cup shortly afterwards. I can tell you with 100% certainty that while my daughter may or may not grow up a Bruins fan (I refuse to enforce my fandom, or what's left of it, upon her) I'd rather be crucified upside down than ever cheer for the Bruins. I like this area, and I could live here the rest of my life. However, even if it takes decades for me to ever get into the NHL again, IF I ever do it will be as a Leafs fan. I would NEVER be a Bruins fan, NEVER, and me living here has actually reinforced that conviction even though the vast majority of my interactions with Bruins fans here have actually been very cordial.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I have never lived in Canada and I probably don't count as a Leafs fan anymore (I watched most games from late 90's to like 2018 or so, even had a stint as a mod on this board, but haven't watched the NHL in years) but if I do, I can provide for you a transplant data point.

I moved to Boston about a decade ago, less than a year after the Kessel trade, and watched the Bruins win the Stanley Cup shortly afterwards. I can tell you with 100% certainty that while my daughter may or may not grow up a Bruins fan (I refuse to enforce my fandom, or what's left of it, upon her) I'd rather be crucified upside down than ever cheer for the Bruins. I like this area, and I could live here the rest of my life. However, even if it takes decades for me to ever get into the NHL again, IF I ever do it will be as a Leafs fan. I would NEVER be a Bruins fan, NEVER, and me living here has actually reinforced that conviction even though the vast majority of my interactions with Bruins fans here have actually been very cordial.

I don’t have kids, but the rest of that is accurate to me just replace Boston with Vancouver area. I could live here the rest of my life, it’s amazing. I’d rather die than cheer for the canucks/whitecaps/Lions.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I don’t have kids, but the rest of that is accurate to me just replace Boston with Vancouver area. I could live here the rest of my life, it’s amazing. I’d rather die than cheer for the canucks/whitecaps/Lions.

Dude that Boston-Vancouver series was literally my worst hockey nightmare come true. I prayed nightly that the Earth would be hit by a massive gamma-ray burst and we'd all just disintegrate together.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I have never lived in Canada and I probably don't count as a Leafs fan anymore (I watched most games from late 90's to like 2018 or so, even had a stint as a mod on this board, but haven't watched the NHL in years) but if I do, I can provide for you a transplant data point.

I moved to Boston about a decade ago, less than a year after the Kessel trade, and watched the Bruins win the Stanley Cup shortly afterwards. I can tell you with 100% certainty that while my daughter may or may not grow up a Bruins fan (I refuse to enforce my fandom, or what's left of it, upon her) I'd rather be crucified upside down than ever cheer for the Bruins. I like this area, and I could live here the rest of my life. However, even if it takes decades for me to ever get into the NHL again, IF I ever do it will be as a Leafs fan. I would NEVER be a Bruins fan, NEVER, and me living here has actually reinforced that conviction even though the vast majority of my interactions with Bruins fans here have actually been very cordial.

Awesome! I was considering moving to BC a while ago and I figured if I did, I could adopt Vancouver as a second team to follow. I'll always be a Leaf fan 1st but following another team I moved to another city with a team, sure why not. But the Bruins, I can't see myself ever cheering for them either. Same with Montreal, not a chance.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Awesome! I was considering moving to BC a while ago and I figured if I did, I could adopt Vancouver as a second team to follow. I'll always be a Leaf fan 1st but following another team I moved to another city with a team, sure why not. But the Bruins, I can't see myself ever cheering for them either. Same with Montreal, not a chance.

Personally, the only other Canadian team I can stomach is Calgary, and if the Nordiques ever come back them too.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Personally, the only other Canadian team I can stomach is Calgary, and if the Nordiques ever come back them too.

I'd cheer for the Nordiques to stuff the Habs no matter where I lived. Would love for them to get their team back, those playoff series they played against MTL were amazing!

 

[Go4soda]

Being a Leaf fan for me is like Hotel California or the nWo! The current state of this team/franchise doesn't exactly conjure up the great memories of past trips to the Conference Finals. Thankfully, it isn't reminiscent of the years of missed playoff berths either.

“you can check out any time, but you can never leave!”

 

[Nylanderthal]

Awesome! I was considering moving to BC a while ago and I figured if I did, I could adopt Vancouver as a second team to follow. I'll always be a Leaf fan 1st but following another team I moved to another city with a team, sure why not. But the Bruins, I can't see myself ever cheering for them either. Same with Montreal, not a chance.

I’ve lived/worked long-term in cities such as Calgary Edmonton Denver San Francisco And now Vancouver and I could never ever see myself cheering for any of those teams aside from Calgary.
Part of that might have to do with the fan bases/organization and part of that might have to do with the time that I spent in Calgary was during their cup run and the iggy kipper teams just there after. I’d cheer for the flames unless they were playing Toronto in fact I vividly remember Mats’ scoring his 500th goal in overtime shorthanded for the Hattrick against Calgary on a slapper on hockey night in Canada and my roommates at the time in Calgary absolutely losing their marbles and me as well but for different reasons

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Leafs are my only team but I dont care to watch them next season. gotten to the point where I don't believe any changes will make a difference.
we keep getting better and better for Playoffs but the results are always the same. I kinda miss when we were rebuilding this 1st round exit crap is getting old pretty quickly

For next season? A legit starting goalie like Gibson.

If they lose in round 1 again next year? Complete house cleaning management/front office. Major changes to the core (Both Nylander/Tavares gone).

I would love to see your strategy to moving out Tavares if that day comes

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’ve lived/worked long-term in cities such as Calgary Edmonton Denver San Francisco And now Vancouver and I could never ever see myself cheering for any of those teams aside from Calgary.
Part of that might have to do with the fan bases/organization and part of that might have to do with the time that I spent in Calgary was during their cup run and the iggy kipper teams just there after. I’d cheer for the flames unless they were playing Toronto in fact I vividly remember Mats’ scoring his 500th goal in overtime shorthanded for the Hattrick against Calgary on a slapper on hockey night in Canada and my roommates at the time in Calgary absolutely losing their marbles and me as well but for different reasons

For me, I just figure fans everywhere are more or less the same, I just don't have the hatred for other fan bases as some people do. But whatever, I'm probably staying in Toronto going forward so It'll just be the Leafs for me.

 

[Sniper99]

Extremely overpaid? Have you ever bothered to look at the historical contract values since the 05 lockout? Matthews literally got the same deal cap% and term that all other elite 1C top picks received. Mcdavid and Eichel are the outliers. Crosby, Malkin, Toews, stamkos, Tavares, Kopitar, all 5-6 years at similar cap% compared to the first year of the deal.
Willy is not overpaid, I’m not even going to bother…. He sent Willy home to Sweden and Willy caved taking the deal the leafs had on the table, which is a great deal btw.

Willy didnt cave, Dubas "promised" (Jesus Christ that sounds pathetic) Willy he wouldnt trade him if he signed.

 

[jgs]

On a positive note. The Leafs did take Tampa to seven Games and at least once could have eliminated them. Florida finished fist over all and got swept by Tampa, Florida wasn't even contending in those 4 games.

 

[Knies iT]

On board again? Keeping in mind noone is getting fired.
Tough but for me bold moves would help- a piece of the core moved to help balance things out better. An out of nowhere big goalie acquisition (don't ask me how), and a different mindset surrounding this team which comes from Shanny. Change the narrative to losing is not acceptable here. No pat on the backs for regular season success. Keefe should be nervous instead of comfy

A major philosophical change in team identity via players brought in and/or coaching.

I was willing to see this approach through with an optimistic lens despite it going against everything I know about constructing a winner from decades of watching the game. I've given it enough of a pass and to continue buying in is delusional. I like aspects of Dubas' resume, but his recurring mantra of "adapting" his approach after every lost season just suggests to me that he's realizing his original vision is flawed and his slow learning is just burning core years.

His transaction history suggests he knows exactly what needs to be changed with this lineup, but he's doing it through half-measures and minor tinkering.

A checking/shutdown line built around soft euros to compliment the softest top six in the league, grit coming from geriatric bargain bin players plugged into the bottom of the lineup, a rapidly aging D core built around a one-dimensional OFD, all while bleeding assets beating around the bush. Yet some argue we need more scoring with a 40m core 4 up front and don't see the flaw.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Willy didnt cave, Dubas "promised" (Jesus Christ that sounds pathetic) Willy he wouldnt trade him if he signed.

Willy wanted 8-9 leafs used pasta as a comp. he got pastas deal with cap inflation.
Your other point is bs and disingenuous, Kyle said he sees Willy as a leaf as long as he’s in charge, I mean why wouldn’t a GM want good players around?