Angry/frustrated fans what would it take to be

[Captain Crunch]

Significant changes of substance to the managerial attitude & personnel. Keeping everything the same & crossing your fingers isn’t a viable strategy in my opinion. At the end of the day, they lost & didn’t have the killer instinct required to get the job done again. I’m tired of the “they played so well so it isn’t that bad“ attitude that is spewed by not just media pundits but brainwashed fans. I don’t care about your phony moral victory. The Leafs could have beat Tampa & squandered all their opportunities. They had multiple leads in the series, they had the lead in a clinching game & blew it by taking 2 penalties 200 ft away from their own goalie. They also had 2 games to eliminate Tampa & couldn’t do it. They didn’t score AT HOME despite boasting an offence with the leading goal scorer in the league. Where were our highly paid offensive players in game 7? Nowhere. Where were our role players? Nowhere. We got out gunned by Nick Paul….Nick Paul.

During the season ending press conference, Leafs management underwhelmed & showed they have the same mentality their media lackey’s spout. A lot of these people shouldn’t have their jobs because they have a stagnant mentality. I want a management team that stops letting their own delusions & fears dictate everything. Let’s roll the dice, let’s be bold & unafraid to make a substantial change. What do we have to lose? Why cling to this team that can’t rise to the occasion? Enough!

Couldn’t agree more! Well said!

 

[Captain Crunch]

I haven't seen any solutions yet.
All I have seen is whining that the core of this team is a bunch of chokers who will never win anything.

I've been through that a bunch of times before -

Sundin was accused to being a good player who would never amount to anything
Kaberle
McCabe
Kessel
Bozak
Phaneuf

All players who the fans of this franchise have turned on at one point or another and accused of being perennial losers who could never win. In fact, Kessel and Phaneuf were accused of actively being disruptive in the room and of being coach-killers.

There was a time when Kessel was trashed and Lupul was the heir-apparent for the Captaincy.

Angry, seething Leafs fans mean nothing to me. They talk with their heart and never with their brains.

Blow it up.
That's the most common saying in Leafs land.

So your solution is to stand pat, be happy that they had “a moral victory against Tampa”, and hope and pray that Dubas: catches lightning in a bottle again with his summer signings, either resigns Campbell to a reasonable contract or let him walk and find a competent replacement, permanently fix that PP, address our need at LW, fix our 2nd line (what to do with Nylander and JT).
I guess that sounds reasonable enough, right???

 

[Trapper]

I haven't seen any solutions yet.
All I have seen is whining that the core of this team is a bunch of chokers who will never win anything.

I've been through that a bunch of times before -

Sundin was accused to being a good player who would never amount to anything
Kaberle
McCabe
Kessel
Bozak
Phaneuf

All players who the fans of this franchise have turned on at one point or another and accused of being perennial losers who could never win. In fact, Kessel and Phaneuf were accused of actively being disruptive in the room and of being coach-killers.

There was a time when Kessel was trashed and Lupul was the heir-apparent for the Captaincy.

Angry, seething Leafs fans mean nothing to me. They talk with their heart and never with their brains.

Blow it up.
That's the most common saying in Leafs land.

Coach and GM will need a change. Players usually get the longest leash of all.
10+ years for Ovi/Backstrom to win a Cup but not under same management.
Maybe a player like Nylander will change being a UFA in 2 years (we can’t afford to increase his salary up to almost 4 guys double digits). But that would be for the next group to figure out what to keep, what to surround to take the next step.
We can’t be stalled in the same place again next year without change.

 

[Captain Crunch]

If you'll notice, I didn't blame the refs.
They objectively did hand out many more power plays in that series than one would expect if you compare the teams to their respective regular seasons.
They objectively did hand out many more power play opportunities to Tampa Bay, including 4 instances of 5on3.
They objectively did call a high-stick penalty twice in the span of 30 seconds where either one could be argued against, and one of which was a complete fabrication of a call. This did objectively lead directly to the tying goal in Game 6 where the Leafs were poised to eliminate Tampa Bay.

Those are just facts.

They're not excuses, or finger-pointing.

If the officiating is less trigger-happy with ticky-tack calls, is the series different? I don't know for sure, but it sure seems like Toronto's best players were far superior to Tampa's best players at even strength - again the numbers objectively point to that being true.

At this point, it doesn't matter, and blaming anyone for the loss except the collection of Leafs players is pointless.

It isn't pointless however, to illustrate that this year, the core players not only showed up for the whole series, they were head and shoulders ahead of the pack and led the charge at all times.
Blaming the core of this team for the loss to Tampa is just stupid and reeks of ulterior motives.

So what do you have to say regarding our bottom 6? Could any of that be blamed on Dubas having 4 players- 2 centers and 2 wingers - taking up half the cap space, leaving very little wiggle room to add significant pieces to our bottom 6? Also why has our PP been MIA in these last 2 playoffs, especially considering how we brought someone else in to presumably fix it?

 

[Captain Crunch]

I love how barely any posts in this topic are about the actual topic. Just continuing the spread of people picking fights across the entire board.

As for the actual question that this topic is asking? Win a damn playoff round! There you go. That's literally it. Show that this team can win 4 games in a playoff series.

Until then I'm content to take it easy. Was really hands off this past season and didn't show up on the boards much. I can definitely do it again without much issue. Here's hoping there's a miracle next year and that they can figure it out.

Good for you, seriously. After last season, I said I would do the same thing. Instead, I drank the koolaid, and purchased Center Ice so that I could watch the regular season games. Guaranteed it will not happen next season. Let’s see if Dubas Almighty’s plan will finally work, and we can actually win a round.

 

[Racer88]

Couldn’t agree more! Well said!

I agree with this 100%. The time for fake moral victories is long over and doing the exact same thing next rear is total nonsense

 

[stealth1]

I haven't seen any solutions yet.
All I have seen is whining that the core of this team is a bunch of chokers who will never win anything.

I've been through that a bunch of times before -

Sundin was accused to being a good player who would never amount to anything
Kaberle
McCabe
Kessel
Bozak
Phaneuf

All players who the fans of this franchise have turned on at one point or another and accused of being perennial losers who could never win. In fact, Kessel and Phaneuf were accused of actively being disruptive in the room and of being coach-killers.

There was a time when Kessel was trashed and Lupul was the heir-apparent for the Captaincy.

Angry, seething Leafs fans mean nothing to me. They talk with their heart and never with their brains.

Blow it up.
That's the most common saying in Leafs land.

One of the core has to go to free up cap space to get an upgrade in goal as well as an upgraded bottom 6

 

[notDatsyuk]

One of the core has to go to free up cap space to get an upgrade in goal as well as an upgraded bottom 6

But who? The best one to get rid of is the one we have to keep, and the best one to keep is the easiest to get rid of.

 

[stealth1]

But who? The best one to get rid of is the one we have to keep, and the best one to keep is the easiest to get rid of.

Hudson is available and would be an upgrade. Either way I still think they need to move one of the core to upgrade the bottom 6.

 

[keonsbitterness]

But who? The best one to get rid of is the one we have to keep, and the best one to keep is the easiest to get rid of.

Nylander is the most realistic candidate this off-season. Maybe the only one.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So your solution is to stand pat, be happy that they had “a moral victory against Tampa”, and hope and pray that Dubas: catches lightning in a bottle again with his summer signings, either resigns Campbell to a reasonable contract or let him walk and find a competent replacement, permanently fix that PP, address our need at LW, fix our 2nd line (what to do with Nylander and JT).
I guess that sounds reasonable enough, right???

I agree with this 100%. The time for fake moral victories is long over and doing the exact same thing next rear is total nonsense

I haven't seen anyone say losing to TB was a "moral victory". Has anyone actually said this or are you guys just yelling at clouds?

 

[stealth1]

I haven't seen anyone say losing to TB was a "moral victory". Has anyone actually said this or are you guys just yelling at clouds?

I have seen many say to bring them all back cause they took Tampa to the limit. I think their should be changes to the core. One has to go to free cap space for better goaltending and more then league minimum for bottom 6.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I haven't seen anyone say losing to TB was a "moral victory". Has anyone actually said this or are you guys just yelling at clouds?

A few posters have more or less implied it if not actually saying it.

I'm immoral so I'd never say it.

 

[Racer88]

I haven't seen anyone say losing to TB was a "moral victory". Has anyone actually said this or are you guys just yelling at clouds?

All the people that are taking solace in the respect they were shown in the handshake line. All the testimonials from Tampa staff and players how close the Leafs are.
people that buy into those stories do that as a sort of moral victory.
Keefe took it as a moral victory………it was sad.

 

[pcruz]

I have seen many say to bring them all back cause they took Tampa to the limit. I think their should be changes to the core. One has to go to free cap space for better goaltending and more then league minimum for bottom 6.

What is so wrong about this statement that it makes it null before even starting to pick it apart, is that the Leafs literally cannot bring them all back.

There will be at least 5 changes in the off season whether they want to or not.
The team just does not have the cap space or flexibility (unless a big contract goes on LTIR at the start of the season) to bring back all of:

Liljigren
Sandin
Lyubushkin
Engvall
Blackwell
Kase
Mikheyev
Campbell
Spezza

I feel like Liljigren, Sandin, Spezza will be back for sure.
They will likely offer at least a qualifying option to Engvall, but I'm not sure he will sign at the value they will offer him.

Kase and Blackwell might come back at around the same price they got this season.

You can sell your Mikheyev and Lyubushkin jerseys, and most likely your Campbell jersey as well.


However, outside of Liljigren and Sandin, the rest are complimentary pieces - yes even Spezza and Campbell.

The main core will remain unchanged and it would be foolish to tinker with it just for the sake of tinkering.

 

[stealth1]

What is so wrong about this statement that it makes it null before even starting to pick it apart, is that the Leafs literally cannot bring them all back.

There will be at least 5 changes in the off season whether they want to or not.
The team just does not have the cap space or flexibility (unless a big contract goes on LTIR at the start of the season) to bring back all of:

Liljigren
Sandin
Lyubushkin
Engvall
Blackwell
Kase
Mikheyev
Campbell
Spezza

I feel like Liljigren, Sandin, Spezza will be back for sure.
They will likely offer at least a qualifying option to Engvall, but I'm not sure he will sign at the value they will offer him.

Kase and Blackwell might come back at around the same price they got this season.

You can sell your Mikheyev and Lyubushkin jerseys, and most likely your Campbell jersey as well.


However, outside of Liljigren and Sandin, the rest are complimentary pieces - yes even Spezza and Campbell.

The main core will remain unchanged and it would be foolish to tinker with it just for the sake of tinkering.

It's not tinkering for sale of tinkering, it's to add cap space to replace the players that left. As well to see if they can upgrade goaltending.

 

[Leaf Fans]

All the people that are taking solace in the respect they were shown in the handshake line. All the testimonials from Tampa staff and players how close the Leafs are.
people that buy into those stories do that as a sort of moral victory.
Keefe took it as a moral victory………it was sad.

It only sounds that way by ignoring the second part of what he said: "...again, we’re not in the respect game. We’re in the winning game.” Keefe never took the loss as some kind of moal victory. It is just the posters who want to whine on the board use that.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Hudson is available and would be an upgrade. Either way I still think they need to move one of the core to upgrade the bottom 6.

Didn't answer my question, but here's another: who is Hudson an upgrade on?

Nylander is the most realistic candidate this off-season. Maybe the only one.

Exactly my point - the best one to keep, but possibly the only one we could trade.

 

[Stephen]

Nylander is the most realistic candidate this off-season. Maybe the only one.

I think just because Nylander is the easiest to move doesn't make him the best candidate to be moved. If we dump him, we likely won't have the internal prospect to replace a 35+ goal scorer entering his prime, nor will we be able to buy one as UFA until Tavares is off the books in 2025. Or if Matthews leaves.

I look at the $14.1 million locked up in Brodie and Muzzin and Kerfoot and that's the junk I'd rather restructure.

 

[Dave92]

I'm on board, but the narrative that Campbell had a good playoffs irks me and Id like to see the team get a better goalie if possible. He had some good moments but his overall numbers were crap and in big moments he's always the one to crack.

This should be the last chance for the entire management though.

 

[Al14]

All it takes is one phone call from Matthews to say stop surrounding me with holls miks kerfoots campbells and engvalls and dubas is done.

Watching Kadri in Colorado already pissed them off, I guarantee it.

He should have 'taken' a little less of the Cap pie if he wants 'better' players to play with. Same with Marner and Melander !!!

Kadri is where he is because of HIS stupidity !!! All the Leaf players know that !!!

 

[Gary Nylund]

I have seen many say to bring them all back cause they took Tampa to the limit. I think their should be changes to the core. One has to go to free cap space for better goaltending and more then league minimum for bottom 6.

I haven't seen anyone say that myself.

All the people that are taking solace in the respect they were shown in the handshake line. All the testimonials from Tampa staff and players how close the Leafs are.
people that buy into those stories do that as a sort of moral victory.
Keefe took it as a moral victory………it was sad.

I haven't seen anyone say that myself.

 

[Al14]

Muzzin and Lybushkin both remained physical.
Looks like complacency to me but no one here can know for sure.

The best way to separate an opponent from the puck is through a body check. It doesn't need to be body crippling, as even a simple rub-out along the boards works wonders.

I always coached my players to look at the opponent right in the chest and respond with a body check and not wave their sticks aimlessly trying to knock to puck off their opponents sticks. Separate the opponent FROM the puck through body contact !!!

I also asked my players to back check and take the body when body position can be established.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I'm sorry but until they show they can win a series in the playoffs I can't take them seriously.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'll watch very little next year and that's just sad. Worse though if you support (make excuses for)this historically poor playoff team