Blue Jays Discussion: And the off-season begins (list of FA's in Post #1)

[Bluelines]

Jays were 1st in OBP last year at .340 and 6th in the league this year at .330 (three of the teams ahead of them in the Rockies, Pirates, and Tigers) all missed the playoffs.

No doubt there will be changes to the offence, and they need to do a better job limiting their strikeouts, yes, since they were top 10 in the league, but this home-run only narrative is off.

Jays offence was very frustrating at times, but they aren't Phillies or Braves bad like the media makes them out to be.

The Jays also had the 8th most strikeouts and the 7th fewest hits in the MLB, 3rd fewest ground balls but hit into the most double plays that is probably the clearest example of a team that cannot put the ball in play. HR's have a place in ball but to invest everything in that one aspect and you don't have the ability to put the ball in play is not smart.

 

[Eyedea]

The Jays also had the 8th most strikeouts and the 7th fewest hits in the MLB, 3rd fewest ground balls but hit into the most double plays that is probably the clearest example of a team that cannot put the ball in play. HR's have a place in ball but to invest everything in that one aspect and you don't have the ability to put the ball in play is not smart.

But your main argument was for them to get on base. They did get on base.

I can understand more contact, line drive, all fields approaches. Nobody has argued against that idea here. But the team's on base skills was never the problem.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[zeke]

But your main argument was for them to get on base. They did get on base.

I can understand more contact, line drive, all fields approaches. Nobody has argued against that idea here. But the team's on base skills was never the problem.

really hurts that their best contact guy (travis) is always injured.

 

[Bluelines]

But your main argument was for them to get on base. They did get on base.

I can understand more contact, line drive, all fields approaches. Nobody has argued against that idea here. But the team's on base skills was never the problem.

I made no mention of team OBP, I said ..."It sure would be nice to have a few .300 hitters with high OBP in the lineup" I spoke specifically of adding at least two .300 hitters with high OBP. Reason being is EE and JoeyB represent the Jays 2nd and 3rd highest OBP last year and they will probably be gone.

Remove them from the line up and we go from a .330 team OBP (6th) to a .321 OBP, good for 16th last year.

 

[Mach85]

I made no mention of team OBP, I said ..."It sure would be nice to have a few .300 hitters with high OBP in the lineup" I spoke specifically of adding at least two .300 hitters with high OBP. Reason being is EE and JoeyB represent the Jays 2nd and 3rd highest OBP last year and they will probably be gone.

Remove them from the line up and we go from a .330 team OBP (6th) to a .321 OBP, good for 16th last year.

Remove roughly 1/4 of a team's players (who happen to be two of their best at getting on base) and they drop to the middle of the pack in OBP? That's not an argument for the team lacking on base skills; I'd say it's the opposite, that they didn't drop further. Take the two best players of any category from most teams' lineups and they'll show a similar drop.

As Eyedea alluded, the offence does need to improve, and probably change its approach. But getting on base in general is not a problem by any objective measure.

 

[Eyedea]

Yes, when you remove good/great hitters you get worse. I don't think the Jays have to necessarily add .300 hitters with high OBPs though, mostly because I don't see any in the free agent market and they're incredibly valuable in trades. Working with platoons is probably the most effective way of creating a type of dynamic offence that you are looking for. The Pearce's, Reddick's, Joyce's of the world.

 

[hockeywiz542]

are the blue jays serious about bringing back edwin encarnacion?

It sure doesn’t seem that way.

three days into their five-day exclusive negotiating window with the free agent first baseman and the jays have had conversations with encarnacion’s agent, paul kinzer, but no offer of consequence has been made.

“we haven’t gotten into anything serious yet,†said kinzer.

“we’re talking. There’s nothing imminent. That’s all i can tell you right now. We’re continuing to talk.â€

kinzer left the impression that he didn’t expect a quick ending to the encarnacion contract situation with the jays, unless somehow they surprise him.

Their exclusivity on the slugging encarnacion expires after monday, which just happens to coincide with the opening of the general managers meetings in phoenix.

kinzer arrived in arizona saturday. He didn’t say whether he hoped to have a deal for encarnacion with the jays or any other team by the time he left for home in georgia next week.

 

[Discoverer]

Classic Simmons.

 

[The Nemesis]

Lol Steve Simmons...

 

[Canada4Gold]

Simmons

EE is going to free agency and gonna take the best offer. Nobody can seriously expect a deal is gonna happen no, but apparently Simmons does. But it doesn't mean they're not serious about trying to keep him.

 

[Discoverer]

Simmons

EE is going to free agency and gonna take the best offer. Nobody can seriously expect a deal is gonna happen no, but apparently Simmons does. But it doesn't mean they're not serious about trying to keep him.

As usual in these situations, the only possible result someone like Simmons will see as proof that they "tried" to retain him is if they sign him.

 

[The Nemesis]

As usual in these situations, the only possible result someone like Simmons will see as proof that they "tried" to retain him is if they sign him.

Do or do not. There is no try

 

[Fantomas]

LOL, agents always say that.

 

[UnknownNasty]

In your opinion, what are the odds the Blue Jays sign Bautista or Encarnacion, and which teams are they likely going to sign with?

 

[exporta]

In your opinion, what are the odds the Blue Jays sign Bautista or Encarnacion, and which teams are they likely going to sign with?

I am not an expert on the situation, or baseball. But I suspect the chances of them signing both is ~10%. Signing Edwin, is about 50/50, but I think management won't pay up what Boston is willing to pay. Likelihood of signing Bautista, in my opinion, is that of him taking his QO. I believe he thinks he is worth more on the open market, but after his season he may be better off taking it and trying to earn a bigger deal.

My belief is that management is more concerned with resigning Edwin, but I would not be surprised at all if both are in different uniforms come spring.

For Edwin, I believe that Boston is the #1 suitor outside of Toronto.
For Bautista, I don't really know. A team like Detroit may take this risk on him.

There are free agents out there that we could turn to as well, Trumbo and Beltran come to mind. They could also revist talks for Joey Votto, but we would have to work out something where the Reds pick up a portion of his salary.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[dredeye]

I am not an expert on the situation, or baseball. But I suspect the chances of them signing both is ~10%. Signing Edwin, is about 50/50, but I think management won't pay up what Boston is willing to pay. Likelihood of signing Bautista, in my opinion, is that of him taking his QO. I believe he thinks he is worth more on the open market, but after his season he may be better off taking it and trying to earn a bigger deal.

My belief is that management is more concerned with resigning Edwin, but I would not be surprised at all if both are in different uniforms come spring.

For Edwin, I believe that Boston is the #1 suitor outside of Toronto.
For Bautista, I don't really know. A team like Detroit may take this risk on him.

There are free agents out there that we could turn to as well, Trumbo and Beltran come to mind. They could also revist talks for Joey Votto, but we would have to work out something where the Reds pick up a portion of his salary.

Would not be Detroit going after Jose imo. They are saying they want to get younger and it seems they want to shed payroll

 

[dredeye]

I was excited by Saunders' first half knowing it could result in an extra potential comp pick for us. As an aside from it being a huge benefit for the actual team. It's like the all star game killed him.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Amazing how Saunders goes from being an all star to a pending FA that can't even get a QO

 

[trellaine201]

I would guess he will still get paid pretty well on a multi year deal?

 

[Cor]

Is there any chance the Jays give Tellez a shot at 1B or DH? Smoak is kinda in his way at 1B, but we could always try and deal Smoak.

I see things shaping up line this right now. [Note: I see Biagini starting in AAA as a rotation arm]

Lineup
C- Russell Martin
1B - Justin Smoak
2B - Devon Travis
3B - Josh Donaldson
SS - Troy Tulowitzki
LF - Vacant [Pompey?]
CF - Kevin Pillar
RF - Vacant
DH - Vacant
BE - Ryan Goins/Darwin Barney
BE - Melvin Upton Jr/Ezekial Carrera [One could start, if not, one will be in AAA or dealt]
BE - Vacant
BE - Vacant [Backup C]

Bullpen
CL - Roberto Osuna
SU - Vacant
SU - Vacant
MR - Jason Grilli
MR - Danny Barnes
MR - Aaron Loup
LR - Vacant

Rotation
1 - Aaron Sanchez
2 - J.A Happ
3 - Marcus Stroman
4 - Marco Estrada
5 - Francisco Liriano

 

[Eyedea]

I expect Barnes to have a spot in the pen, especially if Biagini might start.

Tellez will probably come up midseason if he has a hot start in Buffalo. Not sure he cracks the club after ST.

 

[Cor]

I expect Barnes to have a spot in the pen, especially if Biagini might start.

Tellez will probably come up midseason if he has a hot start in Buffalo. Not sure he cracks the club after ST.

Barnes yeah, I knew I was forgetting someone in the pen.

 

[Bluelines]

Remove roughly 1/4 of a team's players (who happen to be two of their best at getting on base) and they drop to the middle of the pack in OBP? That's not an argument for the team lacking on base skills; I'd say it's the opposite, that they didn't drop further. Take the two best players of any category from most teams' lineups and they'll show a similar drop.

As Eyedea alluded, the offence does need to improve, and probably change its approach. But getting on base in general is not a problem by any objective measure.

You are insinuating a lot of things I never said. Clearly you misunderstood my post.