Post-Game Talk: And that should be the end of the Leafs core

[Stephen]

If you haven’t listened to this interview with Muzzin, please do so. I’d like to know if anyone else listens to this and wonders if there is a problem in the dressing room. It’s seems to me, that there are certain guys not putting in the effort needed, and some of the other guys aren’t happy about it.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it?

If the 3 straight wins vs Edmonton last year was a proof of what this team is able to accomplish when they play the complete game, or if the barrage vs the Rangers last Monday is what they're capable of this year, it's pretty obvious nobody was bringing an effort vs San Jose and Pittsburgh. That also includes the clown show stuff we saw out of Muzzin and Holl last night.

The storylines we've heard about the Leafs bringing in babysitters, culture change, the starts on time, etc. It's just a repeat problem with this core group.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If the 3 straight wins vs Edmonton last year was a proof of what this team is able to accomplish when they play the complete game, or if the barrage vs the Rangers last Monday is what they're capable of this year, it's pretty obvious nobody was bringing an effort vs San Jose and Pittsburgh. That also includes the clown show stuff we saw out of Muzzin and Holl last night.

What I don't get is it's not like they stop trying or going into traffic, they just forget how to make simple passes and hit the net without explanation sometimes. Those should be the easy things for them.

 

[glue]

What I don't get is it's not like they stop trying or going into traffic, they just forget how to make simple passes and hit the net without explanation sometimes. Those should be the easy things for them.

Tells you what a huge aspect of the game is mental…this team and core are mentally weak

 

[Stephen]

What I don't get is it's not like they stop trying or going into traffic, they just forget how to make simple passes and hit the net without explanation sometimes. Those should be the easy things for them.

I think it goes back to their galaxy braining about puck possession to be honest.

Even when they've played well and carried the play, they have it drilled so far into their heads to keep the puck that they just rag it around like a soccer team like they're scared to lose it and have to get it back. Perimeter keep away, kick it back, regroup, cycle around the offensive zone, look off shots. The result is every goalie seems to look like a Vezina candidate and every defense has their stationary box around the slot like the playoff Habs last year. They don't dump/chip and chase so their zone entries look like Red Rover being played in slow motion. When they're in zone, they spam their high volume shots but their body positions are all forced into weird angles and they're not penetrating into the slot to really get clear grade A rebounds. Their spacing looks so bad.

It's like they've reverse engineered what a good analytics team should do and choreographed their scoring chances based on the heat maps, but even when they're dangerous it doesn't look like how a high scoring team actually behaves.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Marner July 2nd 2022: 3 years 16.8 mil = 5.6 mil average cash paid
Marner June 30 2023: 2 years 16.05 mil = 8 mil average cash paid

Matthews July 2nd 2022: 2 years 8.725 mil = 4.36 average cash paid
Matthews June 30 2023: 1 year 7.975 mil

The first option would open up trade partners like Ottawa or Arizona who would love to rent them for 750k and move them before their next bonus is due, possibly with 1 or 2 years of 2-3 mil retention for a massive haul. I'd want to have the most bidders available if we're moving anyone major.

I expect current management will see the core through this season and all or part of 22-23 before thinking about changes. And I don't think the Leafs would want to see an intermediary decide the final destination for Matthews and Marner.

 

[Stamkos4life]

11.634, everyone gets it wrong.

Mb thanks for the correction.

 

[Apex Predator]

I think the core are all passengers and not drivers. You don’t win when your team core is all passengers.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I expect current management will see the core through this season and all or part of 22-23 before thinking about changes. And I don't think the Leafs would want to see an intermediary decide the final destination for Matthews and Marner.

The price of not playing against Marner is less than a 1st for me. Honestly unless he figures it out I'd probably pay a 7th to face him 6 times a year.

I think it goes back to their galaxy braining about puck possession to be honest.

Even when they've played well and carried the play, they have it drilled so far into their heads to keep the puck that they just rag it around like a soccer team like they're scared to lose it and have to get it back. Perimeter keep away, kick it back, regroup, cycle around the offensive zone, look off shots. The result is every goalie seems to look like a Vezina candidate and every defense has their stationary box around the slot like the playoff Habs last year. They don't dump/chip and chase so their zone entries look like Red Rover being played in slow motion. When they're in zone, they spam their high volume shots but their body positions are all forced into weird angles and they're not penetrating into the slot to really get clear grade A rebounds. Their spacing looks so bad.

It's like they've reverse engineered what a good analytics team should do and choreographed their scoring chances based on the heat maps, but even when they're dangerous it doesn't look like how a high scoring team actually behaves.

I get the idea but it just seems too convenient of a narrative. A reverse engineered analytics team doesn't sign Ritchie and Simmonds, I almost wish they were what you're describing instead of this no man's land compromise we have. Also doesn't explain how Jeckyll and Hyde they are, when they're on they absolutely tilt the ice and they've done it for decent streaks against good teams. Then all of a sudden they're fumbling pucks and tripping over their own feet against an injured bottomfeeder. Spezza and Nylander's lines seem to be immune to the soccer game too, most of their goals are 5 feet from the net.

I do agree that the big minute guys need to simplify badly though, I just think there's more to what's causing them to forget basic skills sporadically. My leading theory is their Gatorade supplier adds mescaline to the bottles every now and then.

 

[ChadBigly]

Remember the goalie Andersen complaining after a game when Babcock was still here?

The goalie was saying some players do not try that hard or did their jobs, words to that effect. I thought he was talking about Marner because he blew a couple of defensive plays in that game.

However, there was no rift on that team. Caulk it up to teammates pushing each other.


Maybe now that act is getting old? Who knows.

rob schremp after he left the islanders said this about john tavares. called him the ultimate "i did my job" player... or something like that.

 

[LilySmoov]

If you haven’t listened to this interview with Muzzin, please do so. I’d like to know if anyone else listens to this and wonders if there is a problem in the dressing room. It’s seems to me, that there are certain guys not putting in the effort needed, and some of the other guys aren’t happy about it.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it?

Maybe, but maybe not. "We got other things to worry about in our room" is a hell of a soundbite though. It could simply be a reference to the previous question about what the mood in the room was like, but uh yeah, it also could very well be way more damning than that.

 

[Stamkos4life]

What I don't get is it's not like they stop trying or going into traffic, they just forget how to make simple passes and hit the net without explanation sometimes. Those should be the easy things for them.

You can't find mental fortitude on a spread sheet. That's where dubas and his fan boys fail.

 

[HolyCrap]

You can't find mental fortitude on a spread sheet. That's where dubas and his fan boys fail.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[Handela]

Lets face it, this kid has f***ed up our cap big time.. we can't do jack squat! Marner at over 11m???? he's a 6-7mill at best player... hell.. the way he is playing now, since the playoffs last year, I am pulling straws to give the kid that amount... Dubass, can kiss my ass and leave

I would prefer ehlers or bjorkstrand Any day to half the money, jus a thougt

 

[francis246]

rob schremp after he left the islanders said this about john tavares. called him the ultimate "i did my job" player... or something like that.

schremp is just jealous, didn’t get the same love in London and was a bust of a 1st round pick. A lot of islanders players and JT’s former teammates came out and disputed those comments

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I think it goes back to their galaxy braining about puck possession to be honest.

Even when they've played well and carried the play, they have it drilled so far into their heads to keep the puck that they just rag it around like a soccer team like they're scared to lose it and have to get it back. Perimeter keep away, kick it back, regroup, cycle around the offensive zone, look off shots. The result is every goalie seems to look like a Vezina candidate and every defense has their stationary box around the slot like the playoff Habs last year. They don't dump/chip and chase so their zone entries look like Red Rover being played in slow motion. When they're in zone, they spam their high volume shots but their body positions are all forced into weird angles and they're not penetrating into the slot to really get clear grade A rebounds. Their spacing looks so bad.

It's like they've reverse engineered what a good analytics team should do and choreographed their scoring chances based on the heat maps, but even when they're dangerous it doesn't look like how a high scoring team actually behaves.

Whatever the reasons are, the bolded is undeniable. It feels like we "run into a hot goalie" every single game which obviously can't be true.

 

[ZEBROA]

They should stop being afraid to loose. When they accept that they might loose, they might make wrong plays . They might get more hate from fans and media. First then can they let go of the fear and just play. Relaxed but 100% focused is the best way to play. Some player play best a bit angry. When you are angry it is hard to be afraid at the same time.

 

[Cynical]

Nylander & Matthews yes. Tavares for a fact was offered more by more than 1 GM. Marner you got me on, that’s the bad one.

Any idiot can throw money at players they think are good. That's why any idiot is not hired to be GMs of billion dollar empires.

A GM understands what works and what doesn't. A GM keeps players who fit and gets rid of this who don't. A GM evaluates and makes changes when they're wrong about something.

The issue with Dubas is that he has zero feel for the game and how to build a team. He should really have just been a pro scout.

 

[Oilers in NS]

If the 3 straight wins vs Edmonton last year was a proof of what this team is able to accomplish when they play the complete game, or if the barrage vs the Rangers last Monday is what they're capable of this year, it's pretty obvious nobody was bringing an effort vs San Jose and Pittsburgh. That also includes the clown show stuff we saw out of Muzzin and Holl last night.

The storylines we've heard about the Leafs bringing in babysitters, culture change, the starts on time, etc. It's just a repeat problem with this core group.

I’m coming in peace
I give ya credit. U guys kicked the crap outta us in that 3 games last year. Ain’t gonna lie. I’m gonna take heat for this and probably get booted out but Dubas gotta go. He handicapped u guys with those foolish contracts. I’m sorry but Marner ain’t worth that. Now you can’t trade him. Hyman was the workhorse. Now , u need another like him. Interesting decision coming for sure. 3 game winning streak can turn it around for ya and keep the press off ya

 

[Cynical]

What really sucks is that this team will eventually put together a streak. But I have seen enough with the way this team plays to know that all of it will be Fool's Gold. They have changed nothing about their style that will make them suddenly become playoff ready.

This team does not play the right way.

 

[17 Clark]

No one will take Marner

I keep saying that the other GM’s are not as stupid as ours they see what’s going on so we expect them to give us star players without issues for our so-called star player full of issues yeah where do we sign up

 

[notDatsyuk]

rob schremp after he left the islanders said this about john tavares. called him the ultimate "i did my job" player... or something like that.

"I did my job" is often just a passive-aggressive way of saying that other people didn't.

Like a defenceman saying "I did my job" by playing the pass on a two-on-one is implying that the goalie failed to (successfully) play the shooter.

 

[Dayjobdave]

I think it goes back to their galaxy braining about puck possession to be honest.

Even when they've played well and carried the play, they have it drilled so far into their heads to keep the puck that they just rag it around like a soccer team like they're scared to lose it and have to get it back. Perimeter keep away, kick it back, regroup, cycle around the offensive zone, look off shots. The result is every goalie seems to look like a Vezina candidate and every defense has their stationary box around the slot like the playoff Habs last year. They don't dump/chip and chase so their zone entries look like Red Rover being played in slow motion. When they're in zone, they spam their high volume shots but their body positions are all forced into weird angles and they're not penetrating into the slot to really get clear grade A rebounds. Their spacing looks so bad.

It's like they've reverse engineered what a good analytics team should do and choreographed their scoring chances based on the heat maps, but even when they're dangerous it doesn't look like how a high scoring team actually behaves.

I think this is right on.

It's like they are pursuing the stat instead of what the stat can represent. Effectively, they're Grabovski.

 

[therealkoho]

If you haven’t listened to this interview with Muzzin, please do so. I’d like to know if anyone else listens to this and wonders if there is a problem in the dressing room. It’s seems to me, that there are certain guys not putting in the effort needed, and some of the other guys aren’t happy about it.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it?

it really kind of speaks for itself I'd say

 

[Fogelhund]

I’m coming in peace
I give ya credit. U guys kicked the crap outta us in that 3 games last year. Ain’t gonna lie. I’m gonna take heat for this and probably get booted out but Dubas gotta go. He handicapped u guys with those foolish contracts. I’m sorry but Marner ain’t worth that. Now you can’t trade him. Hyman was the workhorse. Now , u need another like him. Interesting decision coming for sure. 3 game winning streak can turn it around for ya and keep the press off ya

Hyman was a workhorse, a good player, and an even better person. Matty was overpaid by $0.5 mil, Marner by $1.5mil... that still doesn't justify $5.5mil, for 7 years for Hyman. As good a player as Hyman is, he was invisible in the playoffs too... Elite players, should find a way to play as such, without a workhorse... they just need to find a way. I think most of Leafs Nation is massively over reacting at this point, and we'll be back to playing how we normally do soon enough. Most of the games we've played well, but the shots just aren't going in...

 

[ShaneFalco]

It's just the wrong mix of players. Many have been saying this for a few years now. Wrong mix,, won't go to war, and fragile. And Dubas just enables them