Post-Game Talk: And that should be the end of the Leafs core

[Fogelhund]

I think it goes back to their galaxy braining about puck possession to be honest.

Even when they've played well and carried the play, they have it drilled so far into their heads to keep the puck that they just rag it around like a soccer team like they're scared to lose it and have to get it back. Perimeter keep away, kick it back, regroup, cycle around the offensive zone, look off shots. The result is every goalie seems to look like a Vezina candidate and every defense has their stationary box around the slot like the playoff Habs last year. They don't dump/chip and chase so their zone entries look like Red Rover being played in slow motion. When they're in zone, they spam their high volume shots but their body positions are all forced into weird angles and they're not penetrating into the slot to really get clear grade A rebounds. Their spacing looks so bad.

It's like they've reverse engineered what a good analytics team should do and choreographed their scoring chances based on the heat maps, but even when they're dangerous it doesn't look like how a high scoring team actually behaves.

There certainly is some truth to this... and yet, they've regularly found ways to score, except for a few brief periods. I've said this before, but I think they've been overthinking things so far... (maybe not last game).. holding the stick too tight, fear of failure after the playoffs... just get out there and play your game...

 

[therealkoho]

rob schremp after he left the islanders said this about john tavares. called him the ultimate "i did my job" player... or something like that.

Yeah and I also remember a lot of JT's Islander team-mates basically saying to consider the source.

For whatever reason Shremp was unable to adjust to the speed and physicality of the NHL game and maybe he felt that JT should have supported him more when he was being let go by the Islanders and basically said goodbye to his NHL career.

I mean who knows lots of disgruntled people blame others for their own failures whether deserved or not.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I want Dubas fired because he's a bad GM, but he's obviously a good person.

How do you know this? Are you going off the public image he’s created?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

We'd have Chara on second pairing and Nylander traded to the Avs for two 2nds if Lou stayed. No thanks. Who else you have to recommend?

Pretty sure the back-to-back GM of the year would’ve done a little better than that.

 

[socko]

How do you know this? Are you going off the public image he’s created?

Pretty much. I don't know Dubas personally. At the time I wrote that I was thinking of the All or Nothing video, which I managed to get through 2 episodes of, and him skating with his son. It made me think of my 2 little girls. It's hard to fake that stuff. But yeah, it doesn't make you anything that special to love your kids. I just feel like I could like Dubas on a personal level, where I feel the more time I would spend around Marner the less I would like him.

 

[peconcan]

What do the trade Marner people expect to get back for him? With his cap hit and the flat cap most teams can’t afford him and we aren’t just going to give away a 24 year old over ppg player who is also one of the best playmakers in the league.

 

[Morbo]

Hyman was the workhorse. Now , u need another like him.

listen.. with first line icetime Hyman scored 5 goals in 32 playoff games.

there's no way the Leafs were giving him that contract. he wasn't part of the solution to the Leafs postseason woes.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

What do the trade Marner people expect to get back for him? With his cap hit and the flat cap most teams can’t afford him and we aren’t just going to give away a 24 year old over ppg player who is also one of the best playmakers in the league.

1st need a hockey guy making da trade who knows players .. can't manage a trade like this with a spreadsheet guy who never played .. bottom line need a young ELC defender who you can tell will be a force in league for years, then a 2022 1st rounder and a centre prospect who can develop into a 3rd liner .. likely also have to take back a cap hit contract for like 5M per (preferably a solid vet D who can provide leadership but is done with his legs) and a team wants to unload his CAP hit for a few years left .. something along those lines .. it has to be to a team in win now mode with 6M in CAP space

 

[Stamkos4life]

Does anyone know what the corsi was for the pens game?

I heard that we in fact had the better corsi even though we lost 7 - 1. If true, that really shows how un reliable these "advanced" stats are.

 

[robertmac43]

I heard that we in fact had the better corsi even though we lost 7 - 1. If true, that really shows how un reliable these "advanced" stats are.

Did you watch the game? Advanced stats do not consider bounced off of the pants or skates of the D...

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Miss this mofo so much

Bunting is gonna end up with a following similar to Tucker should he keep on his current trajectory

 

[Stamkos4life]

Did you watch the game? Advanced stats do not consider bounced off of the pants or skates of the D...

Yes I did.

You didn't answer my question. Do you know if we had the better corsi?

The whole problem with "advanced" stats is that they can't consider the infinite amount of variables. They won't accurately tell you what is going on.

Anyone that has played hockey competitively knows that you can't make an nhl team off a spread sheet.

But of course Kyle has no clue.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Yeah and I also remember a lot of JT's Islander team-mates basically saying to consider the source.

For whatever reason Shremp was unable to adjust to the speed and physicality of the NHL game and maybe he felt that JT should have supported him more when he was being let go by the Islanders and basically said goodbye to his NHL career.

I mean who knows lots of disgruntled people blame others for their own failures whether deserved or not.

Schremp couldn't skate well enough. Ridiculous hands but if you're undersized and can't skate well it's a very uphill battle.

I grew up nearby to Schremp...I'm just going to say there were a LOT of stories about that dude. I'll leave it at that.

 

[robertmac43]

Yes I did.

You didn't answer my question. Do you know if we had the better corsi?

The whole problem with "advanced" stats is that they can't consider the infinite amount of variables. They won't accurately tell you what is going on.

Anyone that has played hockey competitively knows that you can't make an nhl team off a spread sheet.

But of course Kyle has no clue.

We did have the better Corsi rating. I don't think anyone who is big into advanced stats would say they can account for the 'infinite amount of variable'. They would also say that advanced stats don't win or lose games but can help analyze trends over time. One night is not something to draw conclusions on from an advanced stats perspective...

Re the bolded; No one has ever said you could lol...

 

[Cobra777]

Yup killer instinct was addressed to form KILLER STINKED

 

[17 Clark]

Bunting is gonna end up with a following similar to Tucker should he keep on his current trajectory

Side show bob he was fun to watch

 

[shortfuze]

So much over reaction in this thread. Lmao.

 

[Stamkos4life]

We did have the better Corsi rating. I don't think anyone who is big into advanced stats would say they can account for the 'infinite amount of variable'. They would also say that advanced stats don't win or lose games but can help analyze trends over time. One night is not something to draw conclusions on from an advanced stats perspective...

Re the bolded; No one has ever said you could lol...

The "advanced" stats crowd love to preach about how good our underlying numbers are yet we lose to inferior teams.

This is more than just one night. Apparently in the PO the islanders have had less games where they had the better corsi than the other team while we have actually had more games with the better corsi.

Yet the islanders have twice as many PO wins as we do.

It's almost like trying to make a team have a good corsi is not the same as making a winning team.

Dubas could've fooled me with how he has assembled the team over the last 3 years. Definitely has no idea there are other aspects to the game that can't be measured on a spread sheet.

 

[robertmac43]

The "advanced" stats crowd love to preach about how good our underlying numbers are yet we lose to inferior teams.

This is more than just one night. Apparently in the PO the islanders have had less games where they had the better corsi than the other team while we have actually had more games with the better corsi.

Yet the islanders have twice as many PO wins as we do.

It's almost like trying to make a team have a good corsi is not the same as making a winning team.

Dubas could've fooled me with how he has assembled the team over the last 3 years. Definitely has no idea there are other aspects to the game that can't be measured on a spread sheet.

Advanced stats aren't just Corsi and a lot of people who are into advanced stats would say that Corsi has some major shortcomings. For instance, it does not measure the quality of a shot, just the overall number of shots. Still doesn't take away from the fact that Corsi can be a good indicator on players and teams over time.

In terms of creating a team from a spreadsheet, it's just a silly claim. Dubas has acquired Simmonds, Ritchie, Thornton, Foligno, etc over the past couple of seasons. None of them are spreadsheet moves.

 

[Oilers in NS]

listen.. with first line icetime Hyman scored 5 goals in 32 playoff games.

there's no way the Leafs were giving him that contract. he wasn't part of the solution to the Leafs postseason woes.

No one is scoring

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

If you haven’t listened to this interview with Muzzin, please do so. I’d like to know if anyone else listens to this and wonders if there is a problem in the dressing room. It’s seems to me, that there are certain guys not putting in the effort needed, and some of the other guys aren’t happy about it.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it?

Muzzin has looked terrible too though so I hope he's looking in the mirror.

 

[m1ker]

It should be the end of Keefe if he stacks WN+AM+MM one more time. Honestly it’s so easy to defend against this line and it puts the rest of our lines through a blender. My money would be on 3 Connor browns vs this line any day unless it’s practise or no contact hockey.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Advanced stats aren't just Corsi and a lot of people who are into advanced stats would say that Corsi has some major shortcomings. For instance, it does not measure the quality of a shot, just the overall number of shots. Still doesn't take away from the fact that Corsi can be a good indicator on players and teams over time.

In terms of creating a team from a spreadsheet, it's just a silly claim. Dubas has acquired Simmonds, Ritchie, Thornton, Foligno, etc over the past couple of seasons. None of them are spreadsheet moves.

As far as I know there are no "advanced" stats that truly measure the quality of a shot. Who shot it? From where? How was the set up? Was there a screen? Was the goalie in position?

Hockey is a much to complicated sport to try and break it down into stats. His isn't baseball. Yet some think that as long as we have a better corsi / xgf / xga / etc, that we will win. That is blatantly false and anyone who has any experience knows that. The goal is to ice a stanley cup winning team. Not the best xgf team or the best xga team.

Dubas only acquired those players after it had become clear his method was not working.

Yet Ritchie is a 3rd liner, Thornton was trash, simmonds hasn't been great and dubas traded for an injured foligno.

Anyone still supporting Kyle can't be a real leaf fan. No sane person wants a bad gm to keep leading their team.

 

[Jojalu]

Why? Because he had 2 good games? He's been invisible for the last 3.

This is false. Pitt was for sure hia worse game but he has been good all last year, throughout rhe playoffs ans he ans Spezza have easily been their best players this year.

Every part of his game has improved

 

[Confucius]

As long as Dubas is here the core will be, or at least until their contracts expire.