Post-Game Talk: And that should be the end of the Leafs core

[Stephen]

"core".

Matthews is here forever.
Noone will trade for Tavares.
No way anyone moves Willy.


That leaves Marner.

If we had a firm commitment from Matthews to sign a long extension, I would be very comfortable starting a retool this season.

 

[keonsbitterness]

If we had a firm commitment from Matthews to sign a long extension, I would be very comfortable starting a retool this season.

Why would he limit his options when he's got almost two years before it's an issue? He can't even officially sign one until July 2023.

 

[Stephen]

Why would he limit his options when he's got almost two years before it's an issue? He can't even officially sign one until July 2023.

The long and short of it is if he's "keeping his options open," it makes more sense for Toronto to consider him as a moveable piece in a bigger rebuild. If he can accept a retool, our runway with him gets longer and we can get back on a cup pursuit after we shed some salaries, bring in new reinforcements.

 

[17 Clark]

You really think he's gonna waive his NMC after he chose to come home to be closer to family and has 2 young kids?

I agree why would he he uprooted his family why would he do it again.
Unless the dressing rooms toxic then he might

 

[Lightsol]

is it really the city? really? Look at other markets...The Yankees, the Dallas Cowboys, LA Lakers, etc. plenty of other high stakes and media pressure in other cities, but they find a way to win something. These players are all millennials who don't want to work hard, want things handed to them and complain when things do go their way. They asked for an earlier start vs SJ to be 'ready' for PITT, look what happened! They don't want to wear suits..the management caves. They have all their toys now and just want to hide out in the treehouse now. No team mentality here just all ego.

None of those cities has had multiple generations of nothing, PLUS a local media that was and is scared stiff of being accused of being homers. The result is a fanbase that turns hostile at an insane rate and a media on a mission to make the team fail via harassment and mind games. Why do you think it is that players from Toronto intentionally avoid signing with the Leafs and players who sign with the Leafs are frequently looking for the door in no time?

 

[keonsbitterness]

The long and short of it is if he's "keeping his options open," it makes more sense for Toronto to consider him as a moveable piece in a bigger rebuild. If he can accept a retool, our runway with him gets longer and we can get back on a cup pursuit after we shed some salaries, bring in new reinforcements.

Asking him to please stick around while the team takes a year or two break from being in "win now" mode is a dangerous strategy. Don't think he'd want to stay for that.

And if Matthews asks to be one of the moveable pieces, that's essentially the start of another rebuild, and the equivalent of an admission of failure by current management. Can't see them going that route.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I’m not so sure other GMs would’ve let Matthews sign for just 5 years. I wish I had some inside knowledge, but really I have no idea.

Feel free to look at lots of evidence. Literally every elite C in the cap era signed for similar term & cap%. Kopitar, toews, Crosby, Malkin, staal, stamkos Tavares. Eichel and mcdavid are the outliers. Eichel always had injury concerns so taking term made sense got him, mcdavid is just Jesus?

 

[Stephen]

You really think he's gonna waive his NMC after he chose to come home to be closer to family and has 2 young kids?

Think it depends on how badly this season goes and the scale of changes that might bring. If it's just business as usual, the team gets back on track and humps along, sure, I don't see him leaving.

If there's a big regime change and a new mandate to break up the Big 4 or a retool or a rebuild, I could see a real talk business case for asking Tavares to waive his NMC. There's no way he would comfortably enjoy the next 3.5 years if there's a scorched earth rebuild and he's not even particularly popular as a player.

 

[Stephen]

Asking him to please stick around while the team takes a year or two break from being in "win now" mode is a dangerous strategy. Don't think he'd want to stay for that.

And if Matthews asks to be one of the moveable pieces, that's essentially the start of another rebuild, and the equivalent of an admission of failure by current management. Can't see them going that route.

If things continue on this course, the Leafs are probably nearing the end of this era anyway. I don't see them keeping this together with duct tape for the next three years with an unhappy group and an unhappy fanbase with so much baggage.

So we would need to know who is committed to the organization, and those who are good enough will be invited to stay on and be part of the solution. If not, we'll know where they stand and can plan accordingly.

 

[Akrapovince]

Feel free to look at lots of evidence. Literally every elite C in the cap era signed for similar term & cap%. Kopitar, toews, Crosby, Malkin, staal, stamkos Tavares. Eichel and mcdavid are the outliers. Eichel always had injury concerns so taking term made sense got him, mcdavid is just Jesus?

Also Draisatl, so Edmonton a city known for more failures than even the Leafs with probably just a tier below in media scrutiny and attention we’re able to lock up their #1 and #2

 

[keonsbitterness]

If things continue on this course, the Leafs are probably nearing the end of this era anyway. I don't see them keeping this together with duct tape for the next three years with an unhappy group and an unhappy fanbase with so much baggage.

So we would need to know who is committed to the organization, and those who are good enough will be invited to stay on and be part of the solution. If not, we'll know where they stand and can plan accordingly.

July 2023 is when the NMC/NTC provisions for Matthews, Marner and Nylander kick in. The first half of that year will determine their fate.

 

[DearDiary]

If we had a firm commitment from Matthews to sign a long extension, I would be very comfortable starting a retool this season.

Tavares told the Islanders organization that he was commited to a long term extension, which is why the Islanders did not trade him and ended up losing him for nothing.

 

[Captain Crunch]

None of those cities has had multiple generations of nothing, PLUS a local media that was and is scared stiff of being accused of being homers. The result is a fanbase that turns hostile at an insane rate and a media on a mission to make the team fail via harassment and mind games. Why do you think it is that players from Toronto intentionally avoid signing with the Leafs and players who sign with the Leafs are frequently looking for the door in no time?

You’re talking about a fan base turning hostile. Maybe there’s a reason for it. How about a bunch of multi-millionaire young players who got a coach fired, albeit Babcock probably deserved it (but I do give him credit for not giving in to Matthews and Marner), who have failed to “start on time” in numerous critical games, seem to feel entitled even though they have done nothing to deserve it?

 

[ErnieLeafs]

He makes a solid point. Big stars and franchises win under more pressure than Leafsland. That can’t be the excuse and neither should players play harder against us cause they’re from Ontario.

calling kids in Their early twenties “millennials”, and shouting stereotypes from the rooftop like an angry old geezer does not a good point make.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Feel free to look at lots of evidence. Literally every elite C in the cap era signed for similar term & cap%. Kopitar, toews, Crosby, Malkin, staal, stamkos Tavares. Eichel and mcdavid are the outliers. Eichel always had injury concerns so taking term made sense got him, mcdavid is just Jesus?

I have and no player in the salary cap era has ever been made the 3rd highest paid based on a career high of 70 points with a sub par playoff record up to that point.

Mcdavid took 12.5 x 8 after winning an art Ross, hart and lindsay.

Matthews wanted 13+ on an 8 year deal but settled for 11.34 x 5. Such a ridiculous contract.

He set the precedent which caused marner to also be overpaid.

Its clear dubas has no idea what he's doing.

Also don't forget drai. The new trend of elite C's was 8 year deals. Matthews decided he didn't want to go that route.

 

[hockeynorth]

Kase 6gms 1g 0a -3
Kampf 6gms 0g 0a -5
Those are not good stats for our 3rd line. At first I liked both these guys but the more I watch they don't seem to bring much of anything. Of the new guys Bunting the only one providing anything that I would want to keep.

I actually didn't know their numbers were so bad, I've just quite liked watching them. I find they also look solid

 

[Fogelhund]

If you haven’t listened to this interview with Muzzin, please do so. I’d like to know if anyone else listens to this and wonders if there is a problem in the dressing room. It’s seems to me, that there are certain guys not putting in the effort needed, and some of the other guys aren’t happy about it.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it?

 

[Caesium]

Matthews wanted 13+ on an 8 year deal but settled for 11.34 x 5. Such a ridiculous contract.

11.634, everyone gets it wrong.

 

[Martin Skoula]

July 2023 is when the NMC/NTC provisions for Matthews, Marner and Nylander kick in. The first half of that year will determine their fate.

Their bonuses get paid the day the NMCs kick in, that's going to hurt their value. July 2nd 2022 is the last moment to trade any of them at maximum value.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

None of those cities has had multiple generations of nothing, PLUS a local media that was and is scared stiff of being accused of being homers. The result is a fanbase that turns hostile at an insane rate and a media on a mission to make the team fail via harassment and mind games. Why do you think it is that players from Toronto intentionally avoid signing with the Leafs and players who sign with the Leafs are frequently looking for the door in no time?

Neither the media or the fans are the ones choking multiple Game 7s and series leads while frequently not showing up ready to play on time or with any heart. Leafs are lucky they even have any fans left, any other market and they would be playing in front of empty arenas.

 

[Apex Predator]

If you haven’t listened to this interview with Muzzin, please do so. I’d like to know if anyone else listens to this and wonders id there is a problem in the dressing room. It’s seems to me, that there are certain guys not putting in the effort needed, and some of the other guys aren’t happy about it.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it?

I feel like this has been brought up before in the past. They brought in veterans to help fix this. I do think there may be something to this.

 

[Polaris1010]

Maybe I’m reading too much into it?

Remember the goalie Andersen complaining after a game when Babcock was still here?

The goalie was saying some players do not try that hard or did their jobs, words to that effect. I thought he was talking about Marner because he blew a couple of defensive plays in that game.

However, there was no rift on that team. Caulk it up to teammates pushing each other.


Maybe now that act is getting old? Who knows.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Their bonuses get paid the day the NMCs kick in, that's going to hurt their value. July 2nd 2022 is the last moment to trade any of them at maximum value.

Yeah, but the bonus + salary is less than the cap hit for all three players, and there should be enough teams who would be able to absorb paying out a July 1 lump sum for one player. Not like we'd trade all three to the same team.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Yeah, but the bonus + salary is less than the cap hit for all three players, and there should be enough teams who would be able to absorb paying out a July 1 lump sum for one player. Not like we'd trade all three to the same team.

Marner July 2nd 2022: 3 years 16.8 mil = 5.6 mil average cash paid
Marner June 30 2023: 2 years 16.05 mil = 8 mil average cash paid

Matthews July 2nd 2022: 2 years 8.725 mil = 4.36 average cash paid
Matthews June 30 2023: 1 year 7.975 mil

The first option would open up trade partners like Ottawa or Arizona who would love to rent them for 750k and move them before their next bonus is due, possibly with 1 or 2 years of 2-3 mil retention for a massive haul. I'd want to have the most bidders available if we're moving anyone major.

 

[horner]

The hockey goods are gift wrapping Eichel for Dubas. It's a miracle Eichel hasn't been traded yet. Marner needs a change too.

Eichel is a type A. He and Matthews are buddies but also compete fiercely against each other. That's the atmosphere we need on the team.

He will probably need neck surgery.
Trading for him will mean we have the same problem cap size.
If you can some how dump Taveras then we can talk about a conditional trade for him.