Post-Game Talk: And that should be the end of the Leafs core

[Stamkos4life]

There are always just going to be people who care about nothing except the final results. Doesn't matter if you have a GM who sets the team up for success or effectively just throws darts at a dart board... If the latter wins a playoff round by dumb luck, they would rather have the latter.

All I know is that if we followed what a lot of those people wanted, we'd be stuck in Montreal territory (and likely without the dumb playoff luck). I'd rather struggle because we are not meeting expectations or having terrible luck than to be a bubble team because those are the realistic expectations.

As James Tanner says "the Leafs are victims of a results oriented business" lol

How does this guy have a job and who's paying him? Dubas?

 

[All Mod Cons]

He's only been GM for 3 seasons. He has more good trades than bad

So, being generous, let's count the too early to tell as a good trade. So we have 5.

Let's see the bad ones.
1. Marchment for Malgin
2. Kadri, Rosen, 3rd for Barrie, Kerfoot, 6th
3. Dermott, Bracco and Dzerkials for Konecny
4. 1st, 4th and stuff for Foligno and stuff
5. 3rd for Rittich

Seems that he's maybe at 50%?

 

[ULF_55]

So, do you not think it's a better practice to interview people for positions? Even if just to get different perspectives from failed applicants that you can utilize in future?

Is Dubas just above normal practices? Is he that egotistical, that he just won't consider any other viewpoints? His stubbornness makes Babcock look like the most indecisive guy we've ever had.

I thought they might look at other options, and that Keefe was interim.

Keefe had good success after Babcock, and then this past season things looked (to me I thought a mirage) on paper like they were poised to make it further in the playoffs, but then Tavares went down and the 1st. line disappeared.

 

[Fonzieleaf]

Trade Marner straight up for Eichel.

Ps. So much for the servers being fixed.

Marner alone won’t get you Eichel. Plus we’d have to take on salary.

 

[myleafs]

Dubas has been the gm for 3 years.

Two of them we lost in the first round.

The other we lost in the qualifier.

How many more first round losses do we need for you to be done with dubas? I'm honestly curious.

This is the year for me where strides need to be made or changes (probably big ones) will need to happen. Believe me I am not thrilled with the direction we are going but it still doesnt change the fact that the players themselves who have had a coach fired already are under preforming. Dubas bet on Marner Matthews and Tavares which on paper seems like not a bad bet but they don't seem to be working. If this continues much longer Dubas has to make changes or he is gone. New gm will still have to deal with 3 big contracts who arent getting the job done.

I would add I am not a fan of the style we play...soft and perimeter and that is on Dubas/Keefe.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner alone won’t get you Eichel. Plus we’d have to take on salary.

Are you sure?

Eichel may never play again.

He has a serious injury and wants to go with a surgery the team does not support.

Sabres don't want to be on the hook for his money, but scuttlebutt is they will take some risk now in a trade.

 

[GQS]

Dubas paid matthews and marner like they were cup winners without even winning a single round.

Most players get paid after they have proven themselves.

Under dubas we have lost in the first round twice and the qualifiers once. How many more times do we need to fail before you are ready to get rid of Kyle?

Not anymore. For the most part that era is gone. Brady Tkachuk, Hughes and Pettersson have all gotten major contracts just recently. They're not waiting until their next contract window to get paid bigtime.

We can complain about how much Dubas paid to our best players, but really as I've said before only Marner is the only I dislike most. Tavares got a contract you'd expect when you're trying to sign a star free agent. Nylander caught alot of flak for what he signed for and now people are happy and think his contract is fair if not even abit of a bargain. Matthews' contract to me is alright. Maybe its slightly high, but maybe by a million at most for me when he's your best goal scorer and is your franchise center. Marner is the only one that's overpaid by 2-3 million although if he could return to the player he was when he first broke into the league and that Leafs fans fell in love with, then his contract won't look as bad as it does now.

 

[myleafs]

Yeah that's a good point. For anyone convinced that the new GM will just come in and tear it down, MLSE will probably be embarrassed at the fact they let snake oil salesman Shanny sell them a "rebuild" the first time around. There's no way MLSE is authorizing back to back rebuilds for back to back administrations considering it took them forever to authorize the first one in the first place.

Other than that, the rest of your response makes my point. No real appraisal of Dubas, just basically saying "it could be worse" in a lot of areas.

The rebuild was going very well until he decided to change course 3 yrs into it. Unfortunately Dubas's vision was very far removed from what came before him. Its like it was going well and they started a whole new rebuild on the fly. Shanny had the right idea and second guessed himself.

 

[ORRFForever]

The problem is it just isn’t 6 games in. It’s 6 games after an embarrassing loss to Montreal last year. Then that season was after the leafs getting shutout against Columbus in a play in round. Then that season was after the leafs were up 3-2 on Boston and lost 5-1 in game 7. And that season was after another Boston first rd exit. This problem isn’t just 6 games old. This problem is 17 yrs plus old, 4 plus years with this core.

Fair enough.

I still don't think Dubas will do anything this early in the season.

 

[ORRFForever]

This isn't a new season. These are re-runs. Shameful that fans can't grasp this by now.

I know. I am a Leaf fan, too. Still, I think it is too early to panic.

 

[ORRFForever]

6 games into a season with the same core who lost their last 3 games of last season who haven’t been able to make it past the 1st round in 5 years. It’s not just 5 games man. I think everyone is tired of going up the same set of stairs that have led to the wrong door each single year. This group clearly doesn’t have it but maybe everyone is wrong and they know something we don’t know. I just don’t see how they can turn this around.. they’ll probably be okay but are we fine with okay? Cause the times of being okay are long gone. this team should be in win now mode which they are not in. They sure as hell don’t look like they even have it in them to win consistently enough to make the playoffs this year. They look scared and like they’re craping their pants…. They look like they’re afraid of disappointing so they can’t get out of their heads. It’s so sad to see. They’re not leaders unfortunately.

You are right. They are one frustrating lot of players.

JT is old and slow
Matthews is not playing well.
Marner is useless in BIG games.

Still, I'd give it until late November before considering a change.

 

[ORRFForever]

Emphatically yes. Eichel being out the season is worth the wait. Marner is a f***ing loser and a choke artist in every sense of the word. Imagine getting a superstar like Eichel for this little dweeb? Please, I would do it in a New York minute.

Buffalo fans say Eichel is useless so....

Be careful what you wish for in life, because you might get it.

 

[ORRFForever]

6 games into the season!!! That’s the caveat here.

The reality is we are seeing the EXACT SAME storyline song and dance play out from 2-3 years ago. Nothing has changed.

Actually, I take that back, things are changing. The Leafs seem to be getting worse and worse with each passing year

I know. I'm a Leaf fan, too. Still say it is too early to blow things up.

 

[centipede2233]

Fair enough.

I still don't think Dubas will do anything this early in the season.

I never said he will. He’s stubborn just like Babcock, and he will pay the ultimate price for his negligence

 

[ORRFForever]

Of course I do!

Look, it's abundantly clear - this team is flawed. A large part is probably related to the psychological trauma of some of the stuff that has happened in the last few years. Even if they start winning, we all know that this group can't get it done. Even if they win a playoff round....there's no way they're going deep. Not going to happen.

So this is the perfect time for a re-tool. Trade Marner for Eichel, trade Rielly for players/prospects, trade Kerfooot....and move on from Keefe and Dubas. Also, give Lily a bigger role and maybe see what you have in some of the AHL guys (e.g., Ho-Sang). Give Boudreau or Torts, or whoever else, some time to implement new systems this year.

Let's not forget Eichel is a huge talent. Top 5 centre in the league. He's also a fierce competitor. There were some moments in the past where he didn't come off that great, but he was 19 or 20 years old. A kid. He's going to mature.

Fair enough except Sabres fans have been dumping on Eichel (for years) the way Leaf fans dump on Marner so... both players are deeply flawed.

The difference... Marner is healthy and there is no guarantee Eichel will be healthy ever again - spinal surgery is very serious.

 

[17 Clark]

Fair enough except Sabres fans have been dumping on Eichel (for years) the way Leaf fans dump on Marner so... both players are deeply flawed.

The difference... Marner is healthy and there is no guarantee Eichel will be healthy ever again - spinal surgery is very serious.

At least he has a spine Junior mint does not have one

 

[ORRFForever]

I never said he will. He’s stubborn just like Babcock, and he will pay the ultimate price for his negligence

Aye C,

Of all people, you (and others in the International Forum) KNOW how much contempt I feel for Marner. I just think trading him this early is a BAD idea. I also think Dubas will not make a move before January.

P.S. Imagine me, of all posters, standing UP for Marner.

 

[ORRFForever]

At least he has a spine Junior mint does not have one

Touché.

 

[93LEAFS]

He's only been GM for 3 seasons. He has more good trades than bad

How many GMs inherit a promising young core that has made the playoffs 2 straight years? He inherited one of the best situations for a new GM and the team is probably worse than when he got it.

 

[myleafs]

I am onboard with bringing in Torts. It feels like the last step before pushing the nuclear option and dismantling it.

I think Torts would be the nuclear option

 

[Trapper]

I

Buffalo fans say Eichel is useless so....

Be careful what you wish for in life, because you might get it.

don’t think Eichel is the answer.
People want shiny name for shiny name.

What we need is hard working identity skill.
Tampa watched the playoffs and changed identity. Boston traded away players that aren’t identity.

 

[ORRFForever]

I

don’t think Eichel is the answer.
People want shiny name for shiny name.

What we need is hard working identity skill.
Tampa watched the playoffs and changed identity. Boston traded away players that aren’t identity.

Agree.

 

[kevsh]

This Keefe comment after last night's game really is revealing;
“Give Pittsburgh full marks. They were fast and competitive all through the game. They don't make it easy on you. At times we were careless with the puck, they made us pay for it.”

- The "full marks" is deflection - not that we were terrible, but boy, was the AHL team great!
- "They were fast and competitive" - again, deflecting from the fact his team was not, at all.
- "They don't make it easy on you". Ugh. How about making it difficult for them?
- "At times we were careless". No, they were careless over and over and over. And even down 7-1 they were careless, apparently hoping to bury themselves deeper.

Again, no accountability. No anger, no bite, no calling out the absolutely brutal plays half his team made, nothing about how the $40 million dollar stars are MIA, just ... "Well, they (the Pens) deserved it" is what you hear from a weak coach, an afraid one or a defeated one, and right now he's coaching a weak, afraid and defeated team.

 

[myleafs]

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Kerfoot-Tavares-Spezza
Kase-Kampf-Simmonds
Ritchie-Engvall-Marner

Rielly-Brodie
Sandin-Holl
Muzzin-Dermott

Campbell
Kallgren

At this point these are our positives (because it's important to acknowledge those):
Bunting - been excellent, exactly as advertised
Nylander - best player on the team currently
Kampf - i was not optimistic for him but I love him
Sandin - showing me up, much more polished than I expected though I didn't like him very much against San Jose
Kase - great addition
Simmonds and Spezza - you know what, both the vets are playing good hockey, and I thought Simmonds was done. I have no problems with either of these guys right now at all
Dermott - he is looking and playing like a top 4 dman, in my opinion Sandin/Dermott is our best pair
Engvall - inconsistent still, but seems like a bonafide NHLer

the underlying theme with the majority of those guys is they compete, and compete HARD.

Just a what could've been:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Bunting-Tavares-Marner
McCann-Kampf-Kapanen
Simmonds-Spezza-Kase

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott

Campbell
Hutchinson

^ This team would've fit under the cap with 400k to spare at exactly their current cap hits (which could've been 900k with a cheaper Hyman deal). I'd wager that this team has much more compete than the current crew.

Kase 6gms 1g 0a -3
Kampf 6gms 0g 0a -5
Those are not good stats for our 3rd line. At first I liked both these guys but the more I watch they don't seem to bring much of anything. Of the new guys Bunting the only one providing anything that I would want to keep.

 

[therealkoho]

Fully expecting to get up this morning and see that Keefe will be starting his job search tomorrow and that they would be introducing Bruce Boudreau as the 40th head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs

a little bit of Gabby trivia. Played for the Leafs under "Punch" Imlach the last SC winning coach of our beloved Buds