Post-Game Talk: And that should be the end of the Leafs core

[Stamkos4life]

Try and stay on target. Which of those players were in the Isles org? Who did Lou bring in to make the Leafs turnaround?

Bonus question- who was Lou's primary target in 2018 free agency?
Bonus bones question, who was his primary target in 2019 free agency, and who was his backup plan?

How is any of this relevant to the discussion? You appear to be going off the deep end.

I'll make this as simple as I can for you.

Lou came to a horrible leafs team and brought us to the playoffs one year after finishing last. We made the PO twice in a row for the first time in over a decade.

Dubas takes over and we can't win a series and even lost a qualifier round vs the jackets.

Lou went to a bad islanders team and they have have made the semi finals twice.

But somehow the actual results mean nothing to you and all you want to know is who Lou was looking to trade or sign in 2019? Lmao

To the dubas fan boys, results don't seem to matter. It's very perplexing.

Are you James Tanner?

 

[Bagge]

Freddy was out played by every goalie he went up against in key situations ...
Could not make a clutch save to save his life ... so let's not open that one up for analysis.

Fair enough, however that wasnt really my point. Freddy was a scapegoat instead of dealing with the real issue: Torontos problem is that you have spend so much on a handful of players that when they dont show up, there are no alternatives. Kapanen has been traded to save money, Hyman went for free etc.

 

[limeyleafsfan]

Clearly will never happen - and on balance probably shouldn't - but following-up on a comment from much earlier in this thread, I would just LOVE to see Team Entitlement have to cope with Torts as a new Head Coach. It would be priceless - and almost worth the carnage!

 

[BallardEra]

I’m curious to see how they respond tomorrow night. Another performance like last night and Keefe should start getting worried.

Their only saving grace is that the two games after the Canes is the Hawks and Wings.

 

[AvroArrow]

Not going to raid the thread or anything. Pens fan coming in peace. I think Eichel and Marner both have depressed trade value, Eichel more so. However, I'm not sure if the Sabres would want Marner or if the Leafs need Eichel as their 3C. It's entirely possible the Sabres would trade Eichel to the Leafs no matter what the return is because they are a divisional rival.

That's the precise reason we shouldn't move him right this moment, regardless of how angry we all are with him, you never make an emotional reaction or trade when a guy is at his lowest. His value can't go any lower than it is, it's only up from here. He's bound to have a decent game sooner or later, trade him once his stock rises a bit. It really pains me to say it but a guy like Matthew Tkachuk (Yuck) is exactly what this team needs. Big body, gritty winger, good along the boards/puck battles, crashes the net, plays with an edge and has the fiery competitive passion despite being a complete dirtbag. I would love to see a 1 for 1 trade. Tkachucks QO is 9M, making him and Marner both overpaid by about the same amount. I doubt Calgary considers it, he's a heart and soul guy and they have johnny hockey, but that would be the ideal trade.

This team seriously lacks leadership, compete and effort.

 

[ULF_55]

Didn't say we were stuck with Keefe.

But it shows the difference in the gms.

Lou hired an awesome coach who had just won.

Kyle hired his buddy from the ahl.

Almost like 1 gm might be smarter than the other.

Keefe had just won the AHL and the logical step was to the NHL.

So far he has been no more successful in the NHL than any other Leafs' coach in the past 54 years.

Burns and Quinn have been the most recent coaches who gave some excitement but my guess are many here are too young to remember.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I don't think the team is stuck with Keefe, he can be fired at anytime, as he doesn't have a NMC.

Extra 2 years would be severance package.

He was hired by his buddy, who didn't interview a single soul.

 

[Kiwi]

I’m curious to see how they respond tomorrow night. Another performance like last night and Keefe should start getting worried.

Their only saving grace is that the two games after the Canes is the Hawks and Wings.

This isn't on Keefe, these players have already ended one coach and they don't deserve to get rid of another

If people need to go it's time for the players to start feeling the knife

 

[HockeyVirus]

People often mention his trades have been pretty good, but I'm struggling to think of many that are actually positive for the Leafs (I'm sure I'm missing some).

So for good we have:
Muzzin for 1st, Grundstrum, Durzi
Campbell and Clifford for Moore 3rd, 3rd

Are there any others?

Kapanen as a cap dump for Amirov + prospect although too early to know how good Amirov will be.

44OA for Hirvonen and Niemela

Getting out of the Zaitsev contract

And to be fair, the Muzzin trade was a pure steal.

 

[Habz4Evr]

I've been saying that for years. It would be good for the NHL, and good for the Leafs. With more competition in their home market, they would be forced to be more competitive and to improve.

Buffalo and the Leafs would never allow another team into Southern Ontario.

 

[BallardEra]

This isn't on Keefe, these players have already ended one coach and they don't deserve to get rid of another

If people need to go it's time for the players to start feeling the knife

I hear you and just feel that Keefe will be the easiest target unless both Dubas and Keefe are fired at the same time.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Kapanen as a cap dump for Amirov + prospect although too early to know how good Amirov will be.

44OA for Hirvonen and Niemela

Getting out of the Zaitsev contract

And to be fair, the Muzzin trade was a pure steal.

So basically the two I mentioned, a trading down of picks, one too early to tell and dumping Zaitsev on Ottawa.

People make it seem likes there's a whole load of trades that we've come out on top.

 

[ULF_55]

He was hired by his buddy, who didn't interview a single soul.

And he can be fired by his buddy as well.

I'd be okay with that, it kind of would show if the players have just stopped caring because they are too comfortable.

Hard to be successful when the team is getting nothing out of 25% of their Cap.

 

[myleafs]

The nhl is a results oriented business.

As the gm, you are responsible for the team. If the team does well, you get credit. If the team fails, you get the blame.

Dubas has been wrong for 3 years now and still has refused to address the main issue. He needs to be fired sooner rather than later.

So what is the main issue then? Depth has done their jobs and goalie has been good....that leaves the big 3 contracts. Is that on Dubas? The contract amount is on him but is their lackluster play?

 

[Stamkos4life]

So what is the main issue then? Depth has done their jobs and goalie has been good....that leaves the big 3 contracts. Is that on Dubas? The contract amount is on him but is their lackluster play?

Dubas paid matthews and marner like they were cup winners without even winning a single round.

Most players get paid after they have proven themselves.

Under dubas we have lost in the first round twice and the qualifiers once. How many more times do we need to fail before you are ready to get rid of Kyle?

 

[Puckstuff]

He should be fired because the 3 big contracts have forgotten how to play?

This team is flawed and poorly constructed and now the truth is in it’s full form and beauty thanks to our woke general manager who puts face before truth and naively hands out over valued contracts. The team with strong character always seems to beat the more skilled team with weak character. The fact is these guys don’t have it. They showed their true character when a guy like Marner demanded his contract. Marner makes more then Kucherov, Kane and Ovechkin and he hasn’t one a damn playoff series. This group reeks of entitlement.

 

[All Mod Cons]

And he can be fired by his buddy as well.

I'd be okay with that, it kind of would show if the players have just stopped caring because they are too comfortable.

Hard to be successful when the team is getting nothing out of 25% of their Cap.

So, do you not think it's a better practice to interview people for positions? Even if just to get different perspectives from failed applicants that you can utilize in future?

Is Dubas just above normal practices? Is he that egotistical, that he just won't consider any other viewpoints? His stubbornness makes Babcock look like the most indecisive guy we've ever had.

 

[myleafs]

This team is flawed and poorly constructed and now the truth is in it’s full form and beauty thanks to our woke general manager who puts face before truth and naively hands out over valued contracts. The team with strong character always seems to beat the more skilled team with weak character. The fact is these guys don’t have it. They showed their true character when a guy like Marner demanded his contract. Marner makes more then Kucherov, Kane and Ovechkin and he hasn’t one a damn playoff series. This group reeks of entitlement.

I don't disagree that the team is built flawed, however if the big 3 show and do their job the way they are getting paid we are not having this discussion. I don't really blame Dubas for their lack of scoring but will blame him if he continues his blind loyalty to them.

 

[myleafs]

Dubas paid matthews and marner like they were cup winners without even winning a single round.

Most players get paid after they have proven themselves.

Under dubas we have lost in the first round twice and the qualifiers once. How many more times do we need to fail before you are ready to get rid of Kyle?

Im not happy with the product either or the overpayments but Im having a hard time blaming Dubas for the big 3 not producing.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He inherited a 105 point team built on a ridiculous shoot out record and a 25+ million dollar cap efficiency created by the ELC window, that anyone that was paying attention new was going to end.

There are always just going to be people who care about nothing except the final results. Doesn't matter if you have a GM who sets the team up for success or effectively just throws darts at a dart board... If the latter wins a playoff round by dumb luck, they would rather have the latter.

All I know is that if we followed what a lot of those people wanted, we'd be stuck in Montreal territory (and likely without the dumb playoff luck). I'd rather struggle because we are not meeting expectations or having terrible luck than to be a bubble team because those are the realistic expectations.

 

[VanW27]

Kapanen as a cap dump for Amirov + prospect although too early to know how good Amirov will be.

44OA for Hirvonen and Niemela

Getting out of the Zaitsev contract

And to be fair, the Muzzin trade was a pure steal.

Not sure how trading a 23 year old, 20+ goal (paced for 31 last year), all situations, strong defensive player and PKer to move out a cap dump could be considered a ‘steal’ or even a good deal.

Might have been necessary but not a steal

And Amirov looks like trash, doubtful he ever sets foot on NHL but ice.

 

[HockeyVirus]

So basically the two I mentioned, a trading down of picks, one too early to tell and dumping Zaitsev on Ottawa.

People make it seem likes there's a whole load of trades that we've come out on top.

He's only been GM for 3 seasons. He has more good trades than bad

 

[Stamkos4life]

Im not happy with the product either or the overpayments but Im having a hard time blaming Dubas for the big 3 not producing.

Dubas has been the gm for 3 years.

Two of them we lost in the first round.

The other we lost in the qualifier.

How many more first round losses do we need for you to be done with dubas? I'm honestly curious.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Not sure how trading a 23 year old, 20+ goal (paced for 31 last year), all situations, strong defensive player and PKer to move out a cap dump could be considered a ‘steal’ or even a good deal.

Might have been necessary but not a steal

And Amirov looks like trash, doubtful he ever sets foot on NHL but ice.

Based on what? You watching KHL games? He's 19 in the KHL. Almot unheard of for 19 year olds to dominate the league due to it's culture. Even Ovi went from meh production to immediate star from KHL to NHL

 

[Stamkos4life]

He's only been GM for 3 seasons. He has more good trades than bad

Doubtful. Otherwise we would actually have won a series by now.

Remember Kadri for barrie and keefoot? The dubas fan boys thought that was a massive win.

Remember a first and a 4th for an injured foligno?

Dubas has lost more trades then he has won. Even his drafting has yet to turn out many nhl players. At one time many thought mark hunters drafts were also fine yet we know how that turned out.