Post-Game Talk: And that should be the end of the Leafs core

[theTTC]

There is far too much talent on this team to condone a pathetic display like that.

Something is off in the locker room.

I think we've sensed that since Lou and Babcock were let go, giving the inmates the keys to the asylum. God help whoever the next coach is going to be.

 

[Captain Crunch]

What's happened over the last 2 games and 27 hours is far less important than what happens over the next 10. But definitely seems like we're at a crossroads with this group. They either responds in a big way, or change is coming.

But how many times do we need to say this?
The time for change is now. This team is the same or worse since we lost out to Columbus.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It would awesome to have a second team in TO. To cheer against these punks is priceless.

I've been saying that for years. It would be good for the NHL, and good for the Leafs. With more competition in their home market, they would be forced to be more competitive and to improve.

 

[theTTC]

It would awesome to have a second team in TO. To cheer against these punks is priceless.

MLSE made damn sure that Hamilton, Mississauga et al were blocked from having a second team around the GTA. They are basically just evil money grabbers, currently trying to make a buck selling woke culture to traditional hockey fans. How's that working for us?

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Burn it down save 34,88,38, and whatever campbells number is

 

[4thline]

But how many times do we need to say this?
The time for change is now. This team is the same or worse since we lost out to Columbus.

If you fire Dubas today his replacement isn't doing anything of consequence for the next 15-20 games, because they won't want make massive decisions as an uninformed outsider over-reacting to bad weekend.

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

There are multiple major gaffes on managements part.

• Back breaking contracts.
• Not accurately assessing where the team is, over estimating their competitive level.
• Not drafting well enough to compliment the core.
• Keeping pending UFA's as own rentals.
• Not assessing the UFA market appropriately.
• Building a team that is way too biased towards offence.
• Building a team with no compete, teams know if you outwork the Leafs you will beat them.
• Trading assets for playoff run that are ineffective.
• Being so full of yourself that you are incapable of correcting your mistakes.
• I'm sure there are more.

Don’t forget entire program runs through the Soo…

 

[hoglund]

Burn it down save 34,88,38, and whatever campbells number is

Please stay away from the ledge.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Of course I do!

Look, it's abundantly clear - this team is flawed. A large part is probably related to the psychological trauma of some of the stuff that has happened in the last few years. Even if they start winning, we all know that this group can't get it done. Even if they win a playoff round....there's no way they're going deep. Not going to happen.

So this is the perfect time for a re-tool. Trade Marner for Eichel, trade Rielly for players/prospects, trade Kerfooot....and move on from Keefe and Dubas. Also, give Lily a bigger role and maybe see what you have in some of the AHL guys (e.g., Ho-Sang). Give Boudreau or Torts, or whoever else, some time to implement new systems this year.

Let's not forget Eichel is a huge talent. Top 5 centre in the league. He's also a fierce competitor. There were some moments in the past where he didn't come off that great, but he was 19 or 20 years old. A kid. He's going to mature.

So you feel that having half your cap tied up now in 3 centers and a winger will be better than having it tied up in 2 centers and 2 wingers?
Sorry, I don’t agree. This team is built wrong. Guaranteed we won’t win anything while half the cap is tied up on 4 forwards.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Freddy was out played by every goalie he went up against in key situations ...
Could not make a clutch save to save his life ... so let's not open that one up for analysis.

He seems to be better behind teams with defensive structure like Anaheim and Carolina.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Freddy was out played by every goalie he went up against in key situations ...
Could not make a clutch save to save his life ... so let's not open that one up for analysis.

Sure, he could have been better for us and made more clutch saves at key times.

But, he seems to be doing very well in Carolina. Better team probably, and better structure - that will help.

But, let's keep an eye on the situation to see how it unfolds for Freddy.

I'm not sure that the inept, weak sauce, blame it all on the goalie scenario has much merit. Freddy wasn't responsible for scoring goals in the playoffs. Our overpaid stars didn't perform when it was needed the most!!!

 

[sittler rules!!!]

How is this worse than the last few seasons of playoffs/pre-playoff collapses?

Core hasn’t responded... ever.

Yet we try and try again.

Time to try something different.

Clean house. Every one goes. Maybe keep Willie, Mo, TJ, and the two swede kid D. I am not even that upset with Taveras. as the effort is always there. Yes, signing him was bad. But it was a Dubas move, signing 34 to 5 at 11m, that was a Dubas move, why the hell he ever signed Mitchie Mouse to that contract is evidence of idiocy.

 

[Captain Crunch]

If you fire Dubas today his replacement isn't doing anything of consequence for the next 15-20 games, because they won't want make massive decisions as an uninformed outsider over-reacting to bad weekend.

Then Dubas needs to have his hands tied on any more trades, or else this team will be more worse off.

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

HF is just a sad place to be after an early regular season loss. This place has been absolutely toxic since game 7. No wonder some of the best posters have completely avoided this place in recent months. Just not the same like it used to be. Used to be fun to post here even when you disagreed with someone or have a debate with another poster.

ya the team has been really underwhelming, but it’s the same negative posters day in and day out. Not sure how I feel about the team and it has less to do with the actual on ice product. But the way fans turn on the team on a dime. You just don’t see this type of reaction for other teams. Idk, hopefully we turn it around

In no all fairness, you don’t see other team with the same meltdowns and failures when they could and should be better. Year after year. People are tired of being let down, tired of giving the superstars and management a pass. Enough is enough and people are pissed right off, myself included.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I think we've sensed that since Lou and Babcock were let go, giving the inmates the keys to the asylum. God help whoever the next coach is going to be.

That’s why Shanny and Dubas need to be the first ones to go.

 

[4thline]

Then Dubas needs to have his hands tied on any more trades, or else this team will be more worse off.

So 6 games in we need change to turn the season around, but that change can't actually be anything that immediately alters the on-ice group?

Rational stuff.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

If you fire Dubas today his replacement isn't doing anything of consequence for the next 15-20 games, because they won't want make massive decisions as an uninformed outsider over-reacting to bad weekend.

Would agree with that concept.

That's why I say fire Shanahan first i.e., pronto.

Let the new top guy make the rest of the changes later i.e., fire Dubas, Keefe, whomever. FIRE Shanahan!

 

[All Mod Cons]

If you fire Dubas today his replacement isn't doing anything of consequence for the next 15-20 games, because they won't want make massive decisions as an uninformed outsider over-reacting to bad weekend.

That's 100% fine with me.

 

[Pookie]

If you fire Dubas today his replacement isn't doing anything of consequence for the next 15-20 games, because they won't want make massive decisions as an uninformed outsider over-reacting to bad weekend.

At some point you’ve got to look beyond the short term if you are Shanahan.

If the idea of firing Dubas is on the table... there are 2 major decisions looming with very long term implications:

1. Rielly

2. Matthews


Sign or trade either. Rielly is the most pressing. It’s either a walk for nothing, trade this season or sign to a massive extension decision.

Not fair to burden the next GM with the outcome.

Same with 34. 2 years before a full NMC kicks in. Without an extension heading into that last year, he holds all the cards. A decision to move or sign has to be made soon.

The outcome of those decisions affect assets or cap room. Big stuff. And if there is waning confidence in Dubas, best cut the cord and get things settled.

Even if it costs them some short term games.

 

[4thline]

That's 100% fine with me.

And after that 15 games, the team is 12-7-2. The new GM decides the group is fine, just had a rocky start. Elects to do nothing.

Firing the GM now accomplished what exactly?

 

[Captain Crunch]

In no all fairness, you don’t see other team with the same meltdowns and failures when they could and should be better. Year after year. People are tired of being let down, tired of giving the superstars and management a pass. Enough is enough and people are pissed right off, myself included.

Not to mention sick and tired of hearing the same old cliches.

 

[Cynical]

Imo, Marner, Tavares, Reilly and Kerfoot all need to go. These guys all embody the team as a whole - players who only have one gear. If you watch them play, their demeanour is always the same and they essentially do a whole lot of nothing out there for what they're supposed to be. You can never tell if they're playing in a preseason game or a playoff game.

From there you bring in guys who have a more aggressive game and play with confidence. When I look at this team it was never a team I felt was dominant even with the 4 supposed star forwards. There's something about them that makes you feel like you can beat them.

 

[All Mod Cons]

So 6 games in we need change to turn the season around, but that change can't actually be anything that immediately alters the on-ice group?

Rational stuff.

We don't need to turn this season around. We need to stop the bleeding. It's absolutely shocking the amount of damage Kyle has done in such a short time frame. He cannot be allowed to make any more decisions. If we have to write off this year to stop the bleeding, so be it.

This should've happened 2 years ago. We've already wasted 2 years, another will not kill us.

 

[Mugzy97]

Came here to see the overreactions. Wasn’t disappointed.

 

[Cynical]

What's happened over the last 2 games and 27 hours is far less important than what happens over the next 10. But definitely seems like we're at a crossroads with this group. They either responds in a big way, or change is coming.

The time for assessing is over. They have been given countless opportunities to turn it around. They can go on a 15 game winning streak starting on Monday, but I'm convinced they won't get past the first round, even if they do make it.