Post-Game Talk: And that should be the end of the Leafs core

[JohnnyBerts]

Leafs aren’t that bad but this D and goaltending isn’t top tier.

Mistakes were made when Johnny T came on for 11 mill while they waited another year for Marner & Matthews and overpaid at that time. Salary cap suicide that you can’t recover from.

 

[4thline]

What's happened over the last 2 games and 27 hours is far less important than what happens over the next 10. But definitely seems like we're at a crossroads with this group. They either responds in a big way, or change is coming.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

It's threads like these that made me want to create an account that was called "The Pendulum" which would just be gifs of a pendulum swinging back and forth with the change in the team's momentum. The point being to demonstrate how irrationally reactionary this fanbase is.

SO MANY people need to CHILL. The Leafs have had many 5-5 type spells between their 15 game lossless streaks, it just so happens this season is starting off with one. It was an embarrassing game, sure, but it's no reason to freak out. Save that for when they're floundering below the 500 mark at the trade deadline.

Yeah no.

 

[Stigma]

It has nothing to do with the hockey gods, Eichel needs neck surgery. That's why no one is bidding.

The Sabres would take Marner in a heart beat. After the trade, however, Eichel will be off for 3 to 4 months recovering from neck surgery IF the Leafs let him get Artificial Disc Replacement (ADR) and it is successful.

If it is unsuccessful and Eichel is unable to play, the Leafs would be on the hook for the entire $50M - insurance will not cover his salary if Eichel gets ADR.

IF the Leafs insist on fusion, which is the procedure the vast majority of doctors feel is needed, Eichel will be gone for 6 months.

So... Do you still want to trade Marner for Eichel?

Of course I do!

Look, it's abundantly clear - this team is flawed. A large part is probably related to the psychological trauma of some of the stuff that has happened in the last few years. Even if they start winning, we all know that this group can't get it done. Even if they win a playoff round....there's no way they're going deep. Not going to happen.

So this is the perfect time for a re-tool. Trade Marner for Eichel, trade Rielly for players/prospects, trade Kerfooot....and move on from Keefe and Dubas. Also, give Lily a bigger role and maybe see what you have in some of the AHL guys (e.g., Ho-Sang). Give Boudreau or Torts, or whoever else, some time to implement new systems this year.

Let's not forget Eichel is a huge talent. Top 5 centre in the league. He's also a fierce competitor. There were some moments in the past where he didn't come off that great, but he was 19 or 20 years old. A kid. He's going to mature.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Trade Marner straight up for Eichel.

Ps. So much for the servers being fixed.

Buffalo would rather take Nylander.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Trade Freddy...its all his fault

It's time to face facts. This is not a well constructed team.

We put far too much money into far too few players. When they don't show up, which happens far too often, the rest of our roster just isn't good enough to compensate. This is not how you build a good NHL team.

It's funny that our management was talking playoffs before the season even started. Getting ahead of themselves as we look like a bubble team at best.

This is true. We have a few stars getting paid huge $s and gobbling up a big percentage of our cap. There's too little to spread around to other players and needs and this creates weaknesses in our roster. You have to be a magician and a lot of luck to fill those holes and have everything else work out. And, our blueline has been weak since forever, and its incredible that a team with league leading financial resources (and everything else supposedly) hasn't been able to fix this.

And then there's the problem of what happens to the team when the stars don't show up. We don't have the capacity to recover from that. Are our stars true warriors? Do they have the character and mental composition to deal with adversity, and to fight through it and overcome it? I don't know, but it doesn't look like that after so many playoff failures.

Its likely time to look at the people highest up in the organization who created the blueprint for this and who made all of the hiring decisions. Start with Shanahan and then Dubas. Its time to move on from them because they've failed.

 

[All Mod Cons]

What's happened over the last 2 games and 27 hours is far less important than what happens over the next 10. But definitely seems like we're at a crossroads with this group. They either responds in a big way, or change is coming.

Jesus Christ. At some point we have to stop saying this over and over and over and over and over again.

If so and so doesn't happen changes are coming is so 2019.

 

[4thline]

Jesus Christ. At some point we have to stop saying this over and over and over and over and over again.

If so and so doesn't happen changes are coming is so 2019.

That point is when there's something that's materially impacting our season. This time on Friday morning we were 2-1-1. This time next week we may well be 5-3-1.

The Sabres, Redwings, Canucks, and Sharks are holding down divisional playoff spots. The Islanders and Knights are last in their divisions. It's October.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Matthews demanded McDavid money (when term is included.)
McDavid: 5gp, 13 points
Matthews: 3gp, 0 poins

Marner demanded being paid as a tier above Aho/Rantanen/Price.
Aho: 4gp, 6 points
Rantanen: 4gp, 4 points
Point: 5gp, 3 pionts
Marner: 6gp, 1 point

Heads should roll. Heads should f***ING roll.

Ya, boy blunder overpaid for our "stars" - that's for sure.

But, Shanahan handed him the keys. Start with Shanahan - fire his ass. I never thought he had any of the credentials or experience to be given the job. He's a politician (smoozer) that played hockey and had a good career as a "player". That's it.

 

[Clark4Ever]

There is far too much talent on this team to condone a pathetic display like that.

Something is off in the locker room.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I took the entire season off last year as I'm just convinced until Dubas is gone we can't move forward. When I do watch games I find myself cheering against the Leafs because that's how we get to Dubas gone. But it feels wrong. Too much negativity. I just bitch.

For some reason, I decided to watch the whole game tonight. I was like....Pitts AHL squad. They'll have fun and score some goals.

LOL. Guess I got what I wanted but man.......FIRE THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM. What is it gonna take MLSE?

I switched to watching the Avs versus TBL game after the 1st period. I would take a peak and switch back to the Leafs game every now & then just to see the spanking unfold.

4 of the best Penguin players were missing.

I would say they need to start with Shanahan though, then fire Dubas after dealing with Shanny. Start at the top where the rot starts.

 

[All Mod Cons]

That point is when there's something that's materially impacting our season. This time on Friday morning we were 2-1-1. This time next week we may well be 5-3-1.

The Sabres, Redwings, Canucks, and Sharks are holding down divisional playoff spots. The Islanders and Knights are last in their divisions. It's October.

Things should have been addressed years ago. Making up some bullshit about the chance things are going to improve, let's just wait and see is infuriating. Asking people not to overreact as if it is only 5 or 6 games is spitting in the face of the fans.

Every single day that goes by with this management team in place, is a day wasted in the pursuit of a cup.

I like Kyle as a person. I imagine he's a really great guy to talk to. I bet he's even quite funny. But he is not a good GM. He should not be a GM in the NHL.

 

[socko]

Ya, boy blunder overpaid for our "stars" - that's for sure.

But, Shanahan handed him the keys. Start with Shanahan - fire his ass. I never thought he had any of the credentials or experience to be given the job. He's a politician (smoozer) that played hockey and had a good career as a "player". That's it.

It seems almost like the Leafs brass were too lazy to do a GM search of their own, and they knew Shanahan wasn't qualified, so they hired him to do a GM search for them, or "run hockey operations" as they call it. There are talent agencies you can hire do that, that are far more qualified than Shanahan to conduct the search. They won't fall for the kid with the fake glasses just because he looks smart.

 

[2 Slick]

I had little faith in this team after watching them implode in the playoffs last season. They bloated my hopes a little because of their success in a quite weak North division in 56 games last season. I felt like that this team was finally putting it all together. Montreal received some of the same benefits that Toronto did last season, a very weak North division, so weak that Montreal made the playoffs as a .500 club. Hell, if you count the 11 OT losses they had, they'd be even worse.

Over paying players like Tavares and Marner has completely handcuffed them into having players like Hyman go to other teams. Hyman may not have the skill that Matthews has, but he has heart and always put in a full effort.

The only things I see is that Marner is a shell of his former self. Not due to aging and getting older, but all of the negativity and hatred he received (much deserving) this past off-season, he can't handle the pressures of playing in a high tension market. It's eating away at him and it is affecting his performances on the ice, I can tell.

Tavares isn't the player he once was, but he has a more legitimate reason, he's past his prime. It happens to every player in their thirties at some point. However, he's been on the decline for awhile now and not all of it can be attributed to his age. He has to take responsibility for his inability to lead this team properly. I don't feel he's done his job sufficiently as captain and he's not the one to right this ship.

Then you have guys like Mattthews and Nylander who for the most part do put forth their best efforts. Matthews was pretty bad in the playoffs last season, but he gets a pass from me. He was shit last night, but to me, he's not the major problem stagnating this team right now.

Nylander received shit because he held management hostage, but at least he's improved on the ice and puts forth the effort most nights. He was their best player in the playoffs besides maybe Spezza.

When Nylander and Spezza, a guy getting paid league minimum is trying to carry this team on his shoulders, you know your favorite team is in for a long and painful season.

Marner will put points up again eventually, it's inevitable, same for Tavares. With that said, management needs to shed some of these dollars, it's not working, it hasn't been working.

It's six games into the season and I already feel like it's a wash. That isn't a good feeling to have as a hardcore fan. I'm sure I am don't stand alone in my feelings, that's what makes it even worse. Feeling like this about the only team I love and the only major sport I watch. It sucks... really SUCKS.

 

[Pi]

Trade Marner for Eichel. It’s right there and obvious as f***. What’s taking so long? Add a conditional pick that the Sabres get if Eichel plays X amount of games next year or this year in the playoffs after surgery.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Over paying players like Tavares and Marner has completely handcuffed them into having players like Hyman go to other teams. Hyman may not have the skill that Matthews has, but he has heart and always put in a full effort.

Tavares isn't the player he once was, but he has a more legitimate reason, he's past his prime. It happens to every player in their thirties at some point. However, he's been on the decline for awhile now and not all of it can be attributed to his age. He has to take responsibility for his inability to lead this team properly. I don't feel he's done his job sufficiently as captain and he's not the one to right this ship.

Tavares was not the right decision for the team. Its not what the team needed.

Doesn't matter whether he signed for a little less than market value. Imho, its stupid to keep repeating that weak sauce talking point. That has nothing to do with making the correct decision on how to build the team and what moves needed to be made. That was a big mistake.

You are right though. We couldn't even get it done last year in a realigned weak Northern division.

 

[Enniskillen]

It would awesome to have a second team in TO. To cheer against these punks is priceless.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

View attachment 473591

About effing time. And take that rag tag team of Matthews and Marner with him.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

Miss this mofo so much

But we have an aging Wayne train who picks a fight after it is already 7 1 in the third….

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Magine Babs is loving this.

 

[On-the-Fly]

Getting back to tactics for a moment, a lot of the problems the Leafs are running into has to do with a misunderstanding of puck possession.

So far this season we've seen them hold the puck for more time and zone time and shots on goal in some of their more dominant games, but they kick it around on the perimeter behaving like a soccer team.

It's like the marching orders they get are more conducive to winning a game of keep away and shot spamming than meaningfully picking apart a box defense, open seams, generating havoc around the net and being in position to score ugly goals.

They also look extremely slow all the time. Not necessarily because of inherent foot speed issues up and down the lineup but they don't understand speed and momentum. The fastest way to move a puck is to pass it. And a chip/dump and chase is a good way to break down defensive positioning by forcing a defenseman to make a retreat to retrieve the puck, at which point hard work can be used to regain possession.

These are hockey basics they've tried reinventing the wheel on and other teams have figured them out. What they're doing is a misapplication of skill.

It seems these things have been amplified this year. You could make certain allowances for 34 coming off wrist surgery and the effects that may be having, but by and large we're seeing exactly as you say. Muffins from the outside.

Keefe seems to be preaching that potent offense comes from sound defensive positioning and play, however all I'm seeing is a counter attack against 4 or 5 defending bodies. Tough to play quick or generate any speed when you're skating into the entire opposition. Nevermind the damned slingshot (or whatever Cuthbert called it). Just so much dead momentum. You're right that dumping it in is a basic in that situation, but 2 dudes with the skill level of 34 and 16 playing chip in? I'd rather they get back to the cheating the zone and pouncing on odd men rushes at every opportunity. It seems that isn't in Keefes playbook.

This coach came with a promise of innovation, but we've seen this team fall into a tactical rut which has been discovered and deciphered. You can bench 20, or give 88 and 58 some runway with 34, but they need to get back to a creative, movement, and speed based attack.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

It's time to face facts. This is not a well constructed team.

We put far too much money into far too few players. When they don't show up, which happens far too often, the rest of our roster just isn't good enough to compensate. This is not how you build a good NHL team.

It's funny that our management was talking playoffs before the season even started. Getting ahead of themselves as we look like a bubble team at best.

We are not even bubble. Bottom third yes

 

[mallory67]

Trade Freddy...its all his fault

Freddy was out played by every goalie he went up against in key situations ...
Could not make a clutch save to save his life ... so let's not open that one up for analysis.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Marner slinked out of post game press questions yesterday, I guess that means he has to face them today? Wanna hear what this little punk had to say, other then one word answers and cliches

Where are the Marner defenders right now? I got torched, not a month ago about wanting to dump him. Now, I don't think that they can. What a pathetic joke this has become.