Analyzing Management and Development

[Lt Dan]

Feels good huh

 

[LAKings88]

Kaliyev is slow as heck and not as good on the boards as Toffoli.

I think he has the smarts to be effective and contribute but I doubt he is ever close to his OHL numbers. He is currently getting PP time. Yes he could be in the AHL but the Kings are getting him sheltered reps in the NHL. He will get bumped up sooner than later.

Kupari is on the roster as a third line center. Over Vilardi. Someone said he didn’t take to wing. Where do you expect him to play?

Durzi is up after proving he could limit poor play in his own end. Clague too. Durzi will get a chance in spite of the reign being down to 6 dmen.

So much talk about how they are misused but are they? Seems to me like they are getting chances.

We will see who gets called up in the second half. Next year the roster should have more youngsters competing for spots. Again, you can’t bring in all these guys.

The narrative is that all these guys are being Suttered. It was all about patience a year ago now it’s these guys are busting.

The coach should put players in positions to succeed but players have some responsibility too.

 

[LAKings88]

The Manchester Monarchs were the AHL champions in 2014-15. During the time when DL brought in a bunch of "unskilled" players (as alluded to by you).

Again. They are churning out NHL players, but they aren't cultivating top end talent up front at the NHL level.

The concern is simple:
"With the current talent of young players inbthe organization up front (Kaliyev, Turcotte, Thomas, Byfield, Kupari, etc), do the Kings have the resources to develop any of them into legitimate top line talent? Or will they be developed into NHL players suited for the middle-six at best? IF we expect them to be middle-six at best, is the problem with the scouting or development?"

Right now, the Kings have yet to prove in nearly 15 years the ability to develop top-line talent from within the organization. Even when they were champions, not a single forward from that team amounted to much at the NHL level.

You countered previously "but top picks!" To which I allude that talent is found in layer rounds. If you cannot get a decent top-six forward without a high pick, then you're admitting either scouting or development is lacking.

You alluded to "DL's plugs" but they have gone further at the AHL level than any of Blake's teams.

Beyond Kempe, Toffoli and Pearson, you'd have to go to Dustin Brown, Mike Cammalleri as players who regularly played/contributed on the top line for the Kings while going through the Kings' system. That's 5 players in 20 years, and that's being generous as far as "top line".

I don't think I can make any clearer where the concern or cause for negativity is. I'll try if you're still stuck.

That Manchester team was skilled and the whole was better than the sum of its parts. Most of those guys are fringe nhlers or playing in Europe. They have bounced around other teams as well. You are saying they can’t develop forwards but the large portion of that was not BLuc. All I’m saying is that it will take time to see if this group is developed. I do not ever remember a time when they had this skill in the pipe.

I don’t care if this group wins the AHL cup honestly. I think it would be good for them but means little in the long run. Are they gelling, forming chemistry, and developing good habits are ultimately more vital to the future of LA.

 

[BigKing]

IIRC this is fair and I think '4th line' is a misnomer becasue by my memory they were the 'third line' the other night, which is much closer to fair/what I would expect

Unfortunately that happened at the expense of Kupari who was handed the Brown piano but I guess you win some you lose some

Brown is a legacy cost that is hopefully in its final year of being paid and hopefully doesn't stunt development of any prospects. Is what it is. Hopefully the AA blockade will play itself out eventually.

Right, and I don't think anyone is asking to dump Kopitar or Danault just so Vilardi can play or something; just that if you're going to call a guy up, try him out in the position you see him in long-term. What's the point in dicking around Durzi? Kaliyev on the current '4th' line works but that was in spite of itself, he should at least get a trial next to Kopitar or I'd prefer Danault/Iafallo. It's what I mentioned with the blues--Robert Thomas getting nearly 20 min on the top line, Kyrou getting 15, etc--it's not because the Blues are short on talent, they just recognize that guys are successful when allowed to play with similar talent in similar roles and allowed to grow while making mistakes. Particularly wingers, I have a hard time believing Kaliyev would be such a liability that he'd handicap Danault/Iafallo any more than AA does. We're not talking about trying Spence at 1D/DD's spot.

I'm not arguing against playing the prospects more, but I do see Robert Thomas playing an average of 13:04 a night as a 19 year old rookie v. Kaliyev's 12:28 this season. I think for now, getting out on PP1 could bump him over 13 and maybe to 14 which wouldn't be horrific for where he is at in his development. Kyrou is 23 years old and had 80+ NHL games on his resume before jumping up to 16 minutes a game this season. Previous high was 14:25 last season which was a jump from 10 or so minutes the year prior.

I don't know...Kaliyev would be in Ontario this season if not for getting to play there last season because of COVID. Instead, he's getting over 12 minutes a night in the NHL. He got 16 on Saturday and 13 1/2 on Sunday so maybe the change is coming.

Kupari gets even less time but he's part of the weakest part of the forward lineup right now: The Brown/Moore duo. Move him to wing with Danault/Iafallo or put him with Lizotte/Lemieux and move Kaliyev up to the 2nd line? But now what am I doing with AA/Brown/Moore?

They need to figure out who is going to be a center and who will be a winger. I haven't cared that much about having too many centers but they should figure things out sooner rather than later. Maybe you don't sign AA if you plan on moving someone to wing...now you've got Vilardi playing wing in the AHL and a guy in Kupari where are we sure he is going to be a C at this level? Very Kempe-like in that regard.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kaliyev is slow as heck and not as good on the boards as Toffoli.

I think he has the smarts to be effective and contribute but I doubt he is ever close to his OHL numbers. He is currently getting PP time. Yes he could be in the AHL but the Kings are getting him sheltered reps in the NHL. He will get bumped up sooner than later.

Kupari is on the roster as a third line center. Over Vilardi. Someone said he didn’t take to wing. Where do you expect him to play?

Durzi is up after proving he could limit poor play in his own end. Clague too. Durzi will get a chance in spite of the reign being down to 6 dmen.

So much talk about how they are misused but are they? Seems to me like they are getting chances.

We will see who gets called up in the second half. Next year the roster should more youngsters competing for spots. Again, you can’t bring in all these guys.

The narrative is that all these guys are being Suttered. It was all about patience a year ago now it’s these guys are busting.

The coach should put players in positions to succeed but players have some responsibility too.

Kaliyev is coming along and I think they're mostly handling him well but I think that's mostly because the 4th line blew up, not because they gave him 'opportunity.' Yes, he has a lot to learn, and I'm glad they're actually letting him learn it (and Lizotte and Lemieux are great safety blankets in this case).

Kupari--I mean I'm just not as high on him as most anyway so I have a hard time fighting for him here but still, getting few minutes and checking minutes and now getting Brown'ed, hard to see as a 'plus'. Remember he was 3C for that road trip which meant he saw Matthews et. al., it's not like he was getting preferential treatment. STill I always saw him as a winger, but instead they want him as a checking C, I guess? to me he's an example of a guy whose offensive skill is being curtailed in favor of checking but in his case it might be the only way he makes it anyway, like I said, I don't see massive upside. But over Vilardi who brings a very specific skillset and offense...I've already said my piece there...

Durzi I didn't expect to see a callup at all, honestly, so that was a pleasant surprise--but to not play him was insulting. Clague isn't up voluntarily, this is a guy who they have battered at every opportunity no matter how he plays. Remember he's only up due to injuries and that they insisted Maatta was a better option (and still kept Maatta in over Strand).

Maybe I'm being too negative, but I see patterns here. I don't see guys busting, but they are by and large being Suttered a bit. Do the players have responsibility, absolutely, but trying to turn Kaliyev into Dwight King and Vilardi into Brian Boyle and Tkachev into Jere Lehtinen is what initially pissed me off so it's going to be hard for me to see these things in anything other than a cynical lens. Doesn't mean I hate the team or I'm not happy with progress, just that I'm worried about long-term bigger picture development as we have yet to turn one of the elite offensive guys into a success story. I know the best is yet to come, but if the first wave is Vilardi and Kupari, well, what positives should we take from that?

The main question is is there anyone on this team surpassing expectations? That, to me, is the mark of great coaching, and McLellan has a history of underperformance.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kupari gets even less time but he's part of the weakest part of the forward lineup right now: The Brown/Moore duo. Move him to wing with Danault/Iafallo or put him with Lizotte/Lemieux and move Kaliyev up to the 2nd line? But now what am I doing with AA/Brown/Moore?

They need to figure out who is going to be a center and who will be a winger. I haven't cared that much about having too many centers but they should figure things out sooner rather than later. Maybe you don't sign AA if you plan on moving someone to wing...now you've got Vilardi playing wing in the AHL and a guy in Kupari where are we sure he is going to be a C at this level? Very Kempe-like in that regard.

Well, that's the problem, is it not?

If you can't figure out how to keep those guys in the lineup, they shouldn't be in the lineup. This highlights the uneven expectations/accountability system. It's okay for Brown to be an outright liability, but it's not okay for a rook to miss a check. It's fine to place a liability like AA with Danault/Iafallo, but god forbid a rookie get those safety blankets.

Maybe that will all change as the year goes on but for now I'm calling it as I see it as it's consistent with TM's history and MO.

Brown and Maatta in particular are my big problems, AA/Moore and the middle sixers that have up and down games are really minor complaints in comparison. But watching Grundstrom get benched after the three best games of his career, just ugh, especially since even publicly TM acknowledged "you did nothing wrong", enjoy the bench.

 

[Eagle Fang]

This fanbase is just clamoring for a kid to become a star.......

We thought is was Kupari.....Nope (Centering a line with Dustin Brown and Trevor Moore).
We thought it was Vilardi....Nope (Buried on the 4th line and now back in the AHL).
We got jacked up about Turcotte....Nope (Too small and frail).
We got jacked up about Byfield...Nope (Breaks ankle).
We get fired up over Kaliyev.....Nope (Buried on the 4th line)

Can't we get a Barzel or a Matthews. Someone that moves the damn needle and not need 3 years to develop.

That's all I want.

Should still be jacked up for Turcotte. He might not be the dynamic offensive player we hoped for but he'll be a gamer ala Justin Williams / Mike Richards'ish. But I still think he needs to get a bit stronger before he makes the NHL.

I really like how his game is coming along, especially the added physical element the last 2 games.

 

[LAKings88]

Kaliyev is coming along and I think they're mostly handling him well but I think that's mostly because the 4th line blew up, not because they gave him 'opportunity.' Yes, he has a lot to learn, and I'm glad they're actually letting him learn it (and Lizotte and Lemieux are great safety blankets in this case).

Kupari--I mean I'm just not as high on him as most anyway so I have a hard time fighting for him here but still, getting few minutes and checking minutes and now getting Brown'ed, hard to see as a 'plus'. Remember he was 3C for that road trip which meant he saw Matthews et. al., it's not like he was getting preferential treatment. STill I always saw him as a winger, but instead they want him as a checking C, I guess? to me he's an example of a guy whose offensive skill is being curtailed in favor of checking but in his case it might be the only way he makes it anyway, like I said, I don't see massive upside. But over Vilardi who brings a very specific skillset and offense...I've already said my piece there...

Durzi I didn't expect to see a callup at all, honestly, so that was a pleasant surprise--but to not play him was insulting. Clague isn't up voluntarily, this is a guy who they have battered at every opportunity no matter how he plays. Remember he's only up due to injuries and that they insisted Maatta was a better option (and still kept Maatta in over Strand).

Maybe I'm being too negative, but I see patterns here. I don't see guys busting, but they are by and large being Suttered a bit. Do the players have responsibility, absolutely, but trying to turn Kaliyev into Dwight King and Vilardi into Brian Boyle and Tkachev into Jere Lehtinen is what initially pissed me off so it's going to be hard for me to see these things in anything other than a cynical lens. Doesn't mean I hate the team or I'm not happy with progress, just that I'm worried about long-term bigger picture development as we have yet to turn one of the elite offensive guys into a success story. I know the best is yet to come, but if the first wave is Vilardi and Kupari, well, what positives should we take from that?

The main question is is there anyone on this team surpassing expectations? That, to me, is the mark of great coaching, and McLellan has a history of underperformance.

I do think Clague was going to get a call up before his injury. I just don’t think the Kings are high on him. He seems ok to me but I also liked LaDue. I’d rather him than Maatta for sure.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Should still be jacked up for Turcotte. He might not be the dynamic offensive player we hoped for but he'll be a gamer ala Justin Williams / Mike Richards'ish. But I still think he needs to get a bit stronger before he makes the NHL.

I really like how his game is coming along, especially the added physical element the last 2 games.

Anyone that ever liked Jwill or Mike Richards even a smidgen is going to LOVE Turcotte, dude is everything there is to love about hockey in one medium-sized ball of anger

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I do think Clague was going to get a call up before his injury. I just don’t think the Kings are high on him. He seems ok to me but I also liked LaDue. I’d rather him than Maatta for sure.

Yeah, that's another illustration really. I'm high on Clague, but I too was stupidly high on LaDue. I think Clague is vindicating us right now, but his handling has been bizarre at best. Keep in mind they had Wolanin AND Maatta over him, and then gave up on Wolanin in favor of Maatta, as well. Yeah we're just couch GMs but come on...

 

[LAKings88]

Yeah, that's another illustration really. I'm high on Clague, but I too was stupidly high on LaDue. I think Clague is vindicating us right now, but his handling has been bizarre at best. Keep in mind they had Wolanin AND Maatta over him, and then gave up on Wolanin in favor of Maatta, as well. Yeah we're just couch GMs but come on...

I have a feeling Maatta is sunk cost fallacy.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I have a feeling Maatta is sunk cost fallacy.

Blake's been really good about avoiding that, though. Think of Cammelleri --> Jokinen and I forget what else but he's not a guy who waxes poetic about his moves, that's one credit I'll give him (even the 'big fish' in Kovy). That's why I feel like that one has to be coming from the pocketbook...

 

[Gjwrams]

Should still be jacked up for Turcotte. He might not be the dynamic offensive player we hoped for but he'll be a gamer ala Justin Williams / Mike Richards'ish. But I still think he needs to get a bit stronger before he makes the NHL.

I really like how his game is coming along, especially the added physical element the last 2 games.

I am jacked for all those players. I was merely highlighting the frustration fans are feeling, myself included. Like most fat and bloated Americans, I want it NOW! I don't want to wait 3-5 years to have talent materialize and dead weight Brown, Moore, AA and even Kempe to an extent are the reason why our young players get on the 3rd-4th lines. Give me Vilardi the rest of the season on Kopitar's wing. let's see what he has? Put Kupari on the 2nd line with Iafallo and Danault. We'd all get excited about a 3rd line of Andersson/Byfield and Kaliyev.

Just spitballing, but I hope you get where I am coming from. I like our prospect pool, but sometimes you have to let the kids play, even if Drew Doughty doesn't approve. If he is that unhappy in waiting, he can ask to be traded. As much as I love Kopitar and Doughty....they are not the future of this organization.

 

[Schmooley]

I am jacked for all those players. I was merely highlighting the frustration fans are feeling, myself included. Like most fat and bloated Americans, I want it NOW! I don't want to wait 3-5 years to have talent materialize and dead weight Brown, Moore, AA and even Kempe to an extent are the reason why our young players get on the 3rd-4th lines. Give me Vilardi the rest of the season on Kopitar's wing. let's see what he has? Put Kupari on the 2nd line with Iafallo and Danault. We'd all get excited about a 3rd line of Andersson/Byfield and Kaliyev.

Just spitballing, but I hope you get where I am coming from. I like our prospect pool, but sometimes you have to let the kids play, even if Drew Doughty doesn't approve. If he is that unhappy in waiting, he can ask to be traded. As much as I love Kopitar and Doughty....they are not the future of this organization.

Kempe looks great this year. Has the most goals I think after Kopitar. Hes the least of their worries right now. Why does everyone hate him?

 

[Eagle Fang]

I am jacked for all those players. I was merely highlighting the frustration fans are feeling, myself included. Like most fat and bloated Americans, I want it NOW! I don't want to wait 3-5 years to have talent materialize and dead weight Brown, Moore, AA and even Kempe to an extent are the reason why our young players get on the 3rd-4th lines. Give me Vilardi the rest of the season on Kopitar's wing. let's see what he has? Put Kupari on the 2nd line with Iafallo and Danault. We'd all get excited about a 3rd line of Andersson/Byfield and Kaliyev.

Just spitballing, but I hope you get where I am coming from. I like our prospect pool, but sometimes you have to let the kids play, even if Drew Doughty doesn't approve. If he is that unhappy in waiting, he can ask to be traded. As much as I love Kopitar and Doughty....they are not the future of this organization.

I do and I agree for the most part. And I might be in the minority but I put it on Blake. He keeps talking playoffs and guys like Arvidsson, Danault and AA are a push for that. But those players along with the current 'core' of the team don't really scream Stanley Cup. I think a lot of us hope the prospects WILL be that eventual championship caliber core and they're arguably (depending on your opinion) being sidelined or put in less than ideal situations because there's just no room.

 

[King'sPawn]

That Manchester team was skilled and the whole was better than the sum of its parts. Most of those guys are fringe nhlers or playing in Europe. They have bounced around other teams as well. You are saying they can’t develop forwards but the large portion of that was not BLuc. All I’m saying is that it will take time to see if this group is developed. I do not ever remember a time when they had this skill in the pipe.

I don’t care if this group wins the AHL cup honestly. I think it would be good for them but means little in the long run. Are they gelling, forming chemistry, and developing good habits are ultimately more vital to the future of LA.

You brought up the Ontario Reign being one of the top teams.

I’m confused tho, Kupari and Kaliyev both spent a year in the AHL. Their current prospects are all on a top AHL team. Are they not currently being developed right?

That's why I brought it up. But you made my point. We're looking at a championship AHL team that was just a bunch of fringe NHLers. Why could they not make the next step up? Only Kempe, from that team, has carved out an NHL career.

And yes, if the Kings aren't developing forwards, that is 100% on Blake and Luc. Because Blake's been here since 2017. That means:
1) either the drafting is not bringing in adequate players to develop. Blake and Co choose the scouting staff and give their directives/team identity OR
2) the development staff is not maximizing the talent of the young players brought in. Which... again, is dependent on Blake and Luc having the right resources (staff and tools) to develop these skills.

You are correct it will take time to see if this current group is developed. History, so far, is not on their side. Here are the average even strength TOI of all the Kings Top and/or NHL-caliber forwards under 23 this season:
Kaliyev: 10:08 (16th)
Kupari: 10:20 (15th)
Lizotte: 10:27 (14th)
Vilardi: 11:00 (12th) - Now in AHL
Grundstrom: 11:10 (11th) - Currently benched
Andersson: 12:25 (8th) - Currently benched

Anderson-Dolan - AHL, yet to get an NHL game this season
Turcotte - AHL, yet to get an NHL game this season
Madden - AHL, yet to get an NHL game this season
Fagemo - AHL, yet to get an NHL game this season

I'm not saying they need to bring up all the players. I'm not even saying Turcotte, Madden et al are NHL ready, but they are among the top forward prospects. But right now, they are being deployed and used as grinders.

How long are you going to give the current regime before you decide whether or not they can develop top line forwards? Because I've been waiting for something more impressive than Toffoli for the past 15 years. They have not shown the awareness or willingness.

 

[Eagle Fang]

In all fairness TMac did try Kaliyev with Kopitar for like 2 periods... that's gotta count for something, right?

 

[King'sPawn]

In all fairness TMac did try Kaliyev with Kopitar for like 2 periods... that's gotta count for something, right?

That's true. It wasn't instant success. So clearly he's not cut out for that responsibility. Better put Brown back up there.

 

[Gjwrams]

In all fairness TMac did try Kaliyev with Kopitar for like 2 periods... that's gotta count for something, right?

Yep, Kaliyev probably muffed a pass ot turned a puck over and was probably promptly relegated to the 4th line "You suck arty!"

 

[LAKings88]

You brought up the Ontario Reign being one of the top teams.



That's why I brought it up. But you made my point. We're looking at a championship AHL team that was just a bunch of fringe NHLers. Why could they not make the next step up? Only Kempe, from that team, has carved out an NHL career.

And yes, if the Kings aren't developing forwards, that is 100% on Blake and Luc. Because Blake's been here since 2017. That means:
1) either the drafting is not bringing in adequate players to develop. Blake and Co choose the scouting staff and give their directives/team identity OR
2) the development staff is not maximizing the talent of the young players brought in. Which... again, is dependent on Blake and Luc having the right resources (staff and tools) to develop these skills.

You are correct it will take time to see if this current group is developed. History, so far, is not on their side. Here are the average even strength TOI of all the Kings Top and/or NHL-caliber forwards under 23 this season:
Kaliyev: 10:08 (16th)
Kupari: 10:20 (15th)
Lizotte: 10:27 (14th)
Vilardi: 11:00 (12th) - Now in AHL
Grundstrom: 11:10 (11th) - Currently benched
Andersson: 12:25 (8th) - Currently benched

Anderson-Dolan - AHL, yet to get an NHL game this season
Turcotte - AHL, yet to get an NHL game this season
Madden - AHL, yet to get an NHL game this season
Fagemo - AHL, yet to get an NHL game this season

I'm not saying they need to bring up all the players. I'm not even saying Turcotte, Madden et al are NHL ready, but they are among the top forward prospects. But right now, they are being deployed and used as grinders.

How long are you going to give the current regime before you decide whether or not they can develop top line forwards? Because I've been waiting for something more impressive than Toffoli for the past 15 years. They have not shown the awareness or willingness.

Again YOU are bringing up fifteen years. Since Blake has had the gm title who was his first pick, Kupari?

JAD saw time on the team has not been jettisoned yet. Still highly talked about two days ago by Wrobo.

Kupari and Kaliyev are up but it’s not good enough.

It seems that you just don’t want to credit anything to BLuc.

There is a glutton of new forwards to filter and decipher through. Only so many spots to go around. I feel like we are talking in circles. You act like the Kings are willfully trying to sabotage their prospects. It makes no sense. A management member recently said Kupari had trouble adjusting to wing but hey let’s be critical of them for not putting him on the wing. I just wonder if blind rage has become the main influence on some of these criticisms.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Again YOU are bringing up fifteen years. Since Blake has had the gm title who was his first pick, Kupari?

JAD saw time on the team has not been jettisoned yet. Still highly talked about two days ago by Wrobo.

Kupari and Kaliyev are up but it’s not good enough.

It seems that you just don’t want to credit anything to BLuc.

There is a glutton of new forwards to filter and decipher through. Only so many spots to go around. I feel like we are talking in circles. You act like the Kings are willfully trying to sabotage their prospects. It makes no sense. A management member recently said Kupari had trouble adjusting to wing but hey let’s be critical of them for not putting him on the wing. I just wonder if blind rage has become the main influence on some of these criticisms.

it's definitely blind rage when I'm teeing off about Vilardi.

But when we can tee up 10+ examples that we feel are mistreatment from the first quarter of this year alone (especially when compared across all organizations in various positions) isn't it worth at least listening even if you disagree?

Calling it blind rage insinuates that we're typically unreasonable posters with an axe to grind when man, I can't count how many years I've been called the opposite.

And if it comes off as 'negative,' that's often just due to poster attacks. Otherwise, they're mostly just facts.

 

[Little Psycho]

"why so negative?"

 

[Eagle Fang]

Kupari and Kaliyev are up but it’s not good enough.

I

In Kaliyev's case, it kind of isn't though. He's our best goal scoring prospect. He's playing with Lizotte and Lemieux. Bless their souls, but it's not exactly a fit there. I understand it's probably about sheltering him, but does it make more sense to have him play with say Kopitar, a top 2-way center capable of off-setting some of Kaliyev's shortcomings while also putting him in a position more suited to his strengths? TMac tried, but 2 periods of trying before calling it quits on that experiment is a bit harsh.

 

[Little Psycho]

In Kaliyev's case, it kind of isn't though. He's our best goal scoring prospect. He's playing with Lizotte and Lemieux. Bless their souls, but it's not exactly a fit there. I understand it's probably about sheltering him, but does it make more sense to have him play with say Kopitar, a top 2-way center capable of off-setting some of Kaliyev's shortcomings while also putting him in a position more suited to his strengths? TMac tried, but 2 periods of trying before calling it quits on that experiment is a bit harsh.

How they are managing the players is beyond frustrating. Haven't looked at Kopitar's last game's ice time minutes but I believe the games before he was getting a lot of defensive minutes, that shouldn't be happening since we got Danault. I'm not liking TM decisions, I don't know what the hell Strum is still doing here (PP has been shit for years) Blake needs to figure out what the hell to do because what's going on the ice isn't working.

 

[LAKings88]

it's definitely blind rage when I'm teeing off about Vilardi.

But when we can tee up 10+ examples that we feel are mistreatment from the first quarter of this year alone (especially when compared across all organizations in various positions) isn't it worth at least listening even if you disagree?

Calling it blind rage insinuates that we're typically unreasonable posters with an axe to grind when man, I can't count how many years I've been called the opposite.

And if it comes off as 'negative,' that's often just due to poster attacks. Otherwise, they're mostly just facts.

I guess that is my sticking point on some of this and the reason for the thread. I’ve been trying to listen to podcast and first hand accounts more so lately. Fans are knowledgeable and it’s ok to criticize, even good to make an organization accountable. These guys are human and deal with so much we are not privy of. Dustin Brown is a good example. We all may want him playing down but his service to the team and earned him some clout. That is a different situation in a locker room than on a video game lobby trying to make your dream team.

I don’t want to pretend to know the reasons behind every decision but I do wish I could get a candid discussion with TMac or Blake at times. The whole point of this thread was not to foster more negativity. My opinions don’t outweigh any other ones. Just think there is often more to a situation than we know. There are decisions I didn’t like, mostly letting go of Futa and Stothers but I can only speculate. I do think this team is committed to integrating skill and youth. I do think they want the playoffs this year.
I’m trying to be patient for these guys to step in take the reigns one day.