thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
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If Dubas gave 1/10th of the performance in the office as what Kadri is doing for the AVs right now, we would, we would probably still have Kadri. Nevermind.
Analyzing Dubas's Performance - III
- Thread starter Stephen
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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These Lindholm/Marchment and Petan/Malgin deals aren't impactful but the concern is the Leafs have many weaknesses even in depth positions that don't seem to be addressed. Like adequate goaltending depth for the year and a half before Campbell, or why they had to resort to Martin Marincin for the nth time.
- Dec 12, 2017
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Right but you knew he was going to. A lot of that was talent around him. MitchMarner and willienylander ain’t never going to try like he does. I don’t it’s in their DNA.
Because you say so? You also said Petan could be a reclamation project yet he clearly doesn’t think the game at an NHL level so that was never happening.
Lucky? No, you don’t luck into an NHL contract with a Stanley Cup contender, you earn it. Nobody finds themselves in an NHL playoff game on a count of luck. That line of thinking is so incredibly out of touch with reality.
Rather than acknowledge it was a small but stupid move you’d prefer to defend, deflect and discredit.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Actually to be fair to Nylander and Marner, Mackinnon wasn't going anywhere and the Avalanche were in pure disarray as late as 2017, and had only had one great rookie year in Colorado. Marner and Nylander have been part of a much more successful program for the first few years of their careers. That isn't to say I think Marner or Nylander have a hidden Mackinnon gear though.
That Kadri for Kerfoot and Barrie deal alone should be a fireable offence for Dubas.
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Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Because he's never shown on any nhl team he's played for to be a consistent above average PKer....
He was lucky in the sense the Bruins didn't have anyone better on their depth chart to slot into the lineup ahead of him in that spot because hes an easily replaceable player.
Brett Lebda played on a cup winning team. It didn't mean he was anything more than a mediocre player
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
People were fairly critical of him as I can remember. There were defiantly a handful of (very stupid) mainbaords threads debating if he was a disappointment for a #1 or even bust lol
World Cup or whatever the hell they named it was really his coming out party. A lot of people felt his head/hands didn't match his feet up to that point. He had an okay year after it then broke out
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
You're just ignoring the facts. He was pedestrian in his role in Toronto. He was outplayed by Moore and lost his roster spot. He really showed no reason for the Leafs to hang onto him, and as a 13th forward he's quite replaceable.
Every GM is going to make a bad trade. But this one could be approaching ROR trade levels soon.
Dubas should be fired for the Kadri trade alone never mind everything else.
So... you're trying to use these trades as a mark against Dubas because your issue is something else entirely that's already been addressed...?
Also, it wasn't a year and a half. Sparks through the beginning of February was 7-3-1, with a 0.909 SV%. He dropped off in the last month and a half, but Hutchinson was serviceable in 2018-2019 as well; putting up a 0.914 SV% with us. I can understand people wanting something done in that offseason, but that's half of a year, and there weren't many possible options within our price range.
Because Muzzin got injured... The hate for Marincin is weird. What do people expect out of a #7-8 defenseman?
You’re underselling him, but that’s fine. Let’s pretend you’re right - Do you think an average NHL PK’er and depth option is more valuable than an AHL player for a team hoping to make an NHL playoff run?
The Bruins signed Lindholm as a free agent and added him to a roster they hope to contend with. I’m not sure why you have to downplay that? He isn’t lucky, he’s worked his ass off for 20+ years to make himself a viable NHL depth option.
In your opinion, you mean.
The point is they lost Kadri to suspension and could have really used a depth centreman but didn’t have one because Dubas traded him for a minor leaguer. While he certainly isn’t a 3rd liner, he can keep up with better players far more effectively than Freddy Gauthier.
The Leafs centre depth was terrible. Trading a depth centreman for an AHL winger makes absolutely no sense to anyone unless you’re just blindly trying to defend the decisions of Kyle Dubas.
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
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Par Lindholm doesn't change anything about that. The gap in our center depth was not players who are bad at literally everything.
Nic Petan. There's literally been 4 pages debating the merits of trading Par Lindholm
Nic Petan.
It was a minor deal but speaks more to the thought process of the GM. If I trade you a toonie for a loonie it’s not really a big deal, but you’d walk away wondering if I understand how money works.
I walk away wondering if Dubas can differentiate AHL players from NHL players. This deal and the Garret Sparks/Curtis McIlhinney debacle are two egregious examples in two years.
He was a pending free agent we could have signed a few months later.
This wasn't about thinking Petan was simply better, it's about asset management. Losing a player who isn't on your playoff projected roster? Isn't even your 13th forward? Move him for a longer term option. If you need him back, you could sign him or a similar player
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I think Mackinnon actually said on Spittin' Chiclets that he was afraid to become a bust. So he decided to become a God...
Yes, but you can’t sign him in the playoffs in the event of injury or suspension. Most GM’s understand you’re going to use more than 12 forwards if you go anywhere in the playoffs. Petan is 25-26 year old AHL player... is that really an asset?
If you’re packing for a potentially long road trip, would you trade your spare tire for a lawn ornament?
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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This is a Dubas discussion, so we're just sitting around talking about Dubas moves. At best, it's a nothing, at worst, it's adding to a useless collection of tweener forwards who can't play while ignoring other positions.
The point about Marincin being used as a 7th defenseman isn't a comment about Marincin himself but moreso the fact that he's been floundering in his role for 2015-16 but because management hasn't really made very many moves to shore up the defensive depth of the team, we had to use him. Typically playoff teams will go and grab defensive depth at the deadline.
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
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Oh ok. Thanks.
I'll say Dubas is being judged on building a team of 3 11m forwards and little defence. That's what he is basing his career on and the crux of his tenure for better or worse.
The minor deals were gambles that are easy to make and recover from, with late round pick trades or signings. Look at Ennis or Spezza or Mikheyev.
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