Proposal: Ana-wpg

[Akhurite]

fits the needs and the value is good, but players at this stage in their development simply don't get traded

 

[Ducksgo*]

Moot point really, as you've seen the virtually all Jets fans have said no interest in trading Connor or Ehlers for Theo. This isn't a slight towards Theo, he just isn't required on the Jets, thus no need giving up a significant asset to get him.

Then why are we still discussing the trade? Ducks fans don't want to get rid of Theo and Jets fans don't want to get rid of Ehlers. There's no trade here to be found.

 

[JetsHomer]

Theodore is better defensively too.

Based on what exactly, certainly wasn't true in regards to their time in the WHL.

Interesting note regarding their offensive numbers, Theodore's Gulls scored 202 goals in 68 games, Theodore had 37 points in 50 or .74 PPG pace on a team that averaged 2.97 goals per game.

Morrissey's Moose scored 171 goals in 78 games, Morrissey scored 22 points in 59 games or a .39 PPG on a team that scored 2.18 goals per game.

Do you think the incredibly offensively talented Gulls team that Theodore played on helped his point totals a little bit?

 

[PhilJets]

Moot point really, as you've seen the virtually all Jets fans have said no interest in trading Connor or Ehlers for Theo. This isn't a slight towards Theo, he just isn't required on the Jets, thus no need giving up a significant asset to get him.

Yeah still want to see
Ehlers and Connor between Schiefele.

That speed and puck handling skills on the wings at full speed...

I wanted Jets to draft Theodore on his draft year but oh well.

Morrissey is not bad, he is still going to be a top 4 D.
Ceiling #2

 

[mondo3]

Well....I still like the trade from the Jets side. and for above post, if we traded Ehlers, just replace him with Petan

 

[Gump Hasek]

Well....I still like the trade from the Jets side. and for above post, if we traded Ehlers, just replace him with Petan

Ehlers has demonstrated an ability to play consistently on the #1 line in his first year in the NHL; Petan has not. Petan in fact has been unable thus far to supplant players above him on the depth chart. It isn't a case of simply trading Ehlers and plugging Petan right into the lineup. Petan has to make that case on his own. The Jets wouldn't likely even consider doing what you are suggesting. Petan has upside, but Ehlers is already proven. If anything, you look to move a guy like Petan and add a pick to achieve a trade for a player like Theodore, though I personally don't feel the need to make such a trade is nearly as great as you have suggested in this thread.

 

[Hunter368]

Then why are we still discussing the trade? Ducks fans don't want to get rid of Theo and Jets fans don't want to get rid of Ehlers. There's no trade here to be found.

Neutral fan created thread and neutral fans keep the thread going. /thread

 

[broinwhyteridge]

If the Jets want better defense, they start by not playing you know who in goal.

I don't think there's ever been a trade proposal that both sides agree on. This is yet another one.

6 of our practice pucks for 6 of your practice pucks... even this proposal would be hard pressed to find agreement because obviously "our" pucks are better than yours so there'd have to be an add of 3 new junk protectors or something.

 

[Hunter368]

If the Jets want better defense, they start by not playing you know who in goal.

I don't think there's ever been a trade proposal that both sides agree on. This is yet another one.

6 of our practice pucks for 6 of your practice pucks... even this proposal would be hard pressed to find agreement because obviously "our" pucks are better than yours so there'd have to be an add of 3 new junk protectors or something.

This is the last year we have to "endure" Pavs, his contract ends after this season.

 

[ulf]

Neutral fan created thread and neutral fans keep the thread going. /thread

I'm not neutral, I'm a jet fan. Jets need left D now and in the foreseeable future. Morrissey ceiling is 2nd pair. Theodore has a higher ceiling based on what I've seen since they were drafted and turned Pro.
Ehlers is not replaceable but is less of a need than a quality LD at this point. With Perreault Conner Petan and Lemieux in the system and a variety of Other left wingers at our call let's correct a drafting error and get a quality left D.
I don't really care which one is superior now or in the future we need both.

 

[Ducksgo*]

I'm not neutral, I'm a jet fan. Jets need left D now and in the foreseeable future. Morrissey ceiling is 2nd pair. Theodore has a higher ceiling based on what I've seen since they were drafted and turned Pro.
Ehlers is not replaceable but is less of a need than a quality LD at this point. With Perreault Conner Petan and Lemieux in the system and a variety of Other left wingers at our call let's correct a drafting error and get a quality left D.
I don't really care which one is superior now or in the future we need both.

Well you know our asking price is Ehlers and it starts from there regarding discussion. What ducks need desperately is wingers. If Jets fans need D well we got a surplus, but you just picked one of our possible franchise defenseman. And everyone in this thread should be respecting why Ehlers is the starting point.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I guess the reason you couldn't say the same thing for Morrissey is all you bothered to check were his recent stats. I did say until recently they were both viewed very highly as offensive defensemen.

Lets look at their WHL carreers --
Theodore: 257 games, 212 points, 54 goals;
Morrissey 249 games, 196 points, 66 goals.

Not much to chose from that huh; Theodore with a few more points; Morrissey with a few more goals.

Sure Morrissey had a mediocre year last year playing on a horrid Moose team. Hence I said until recently, they were both viewed as very good prospects.

I have no doubt that both will be good NHL defensemen. Both may in fact be very good offensive defensemen in the NHL. No way I ever consider this trade

The problem with your comparison is Theodore was on a terrible junior team, even then Theodore has always been better, it's only that Jets fans have tried to portray the two as near equals and they aren't at this time

 

[Hunter368]

I'm not neutral, I'm a jet fan. Jets need left D now and in the foreseeable future. Morrissey ceiling is 2nd pair. Theodore has a higher ceiling based on what I've seen since they were drafted and turned Pro.
Ehlers is not replaceable but is less of a need than a quality LD at this point. With Perreault Conner Petan and Lemieux in the system and a variety of Other left wingers at our call let's correct a drafting error and get a quality left D.
I don't really care which one is superior now or in the future we need both.

Theo is a prospect and unproven, albeit he looks good. You may be selling Josh a bit short, while I agree he seems most likely to be top 4, he has potential to be top pairing. Just seems you're calling Theo a lock for top pairing and discounting Josh. Both are prospects, both are high end prospects, both have lots to prove though.....my point is lots could change over the next 1-2 years with both.

Trouba, Toby (2 years still) and Josh on the left side, where is the big need for the Jets that would require them to trade away a major asset to get another LHD? By the time Toby is done in two years Josh takes over top 4, Trouba is already our top pairing LHD. Stanley takes over 3rd pairing in 1-2 years perfectly inline with Toby leaving. Where is this glaring LHD need?

Rhd is Buff, Myers and Chariot/Postma.

Why do we want to trade away a Elite forward prospect (Connor) or high end forward (Ehlers) (for a LHD prospect we don't really need badly) and downgrade at forward to one of our B level prospects?

Sorry I don't see any big need at LHD.

 

[Hunter368]

The problem with your comparison is Theodore was on a terrible junior team, even then Theodore has always been better, it's only that Jets fans have tried to portray the two as near equals and they aren't at this time

Both guys played on roughly equally bad junior teams (2011-13), not really a point in either favour IMO.

We know where both were actually drafted in 2013. Do you know where both were "projected" to be drafted?

My point is junior teams were both bad, where you get drafted doesn't really matter, where you're projected to be drafted doesn't really matter. It's about here and now, how have they developed to this point. IMO at this point both are high end D prospects, I would likely give Shea the lead by a bit. Both are about as good as a lock as top 4 guys as you get as far as prospects go.....both might become top pairing one day (we can both hope).

I do not get into comparing prospects head to head b/c it's largely a waste of time IMO, but I just don't see the need to get another LHD like OP suggested. Notice I'm not comparing any values or dissing your prospect, etc.....just don't see any need for him. Cheers

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Just a question -- why are you using HF's rating system to evaluate a prospect -- ratings that haven't been updated in the last year?


Also, I wouldn't mind Ehlers at all, but not at the price of Theo. Not to say that Ehlers isn't worth Theodore, but Lindholm and Theodore down the left side is a lot more surefire than Larsson, who's only entering his draft+2 year. If Larsson does develop into a top 4 defenseman and Theodore coming off his ELC begins to cramp our cap space, then we can look into trading Theodore then. Fowler should be the only LHD we have on the trading block right now. (other than Stoner lel) Our forward depth in terms of youth is a bit sketchy, but a guy like Ehlers isn't going to save our franchise's future from the wing (our issue is a lack of young high-potential centermen; if Rakell and Silfverberg continue to develop we should be at least serviceable on the wings). Him being cost-effective is nice, but I'd rather go for Spooner from Boston; he'd come much cheaper and still would be able to shore up our depth. (our top 6 is fine, we just lack anybody notable in our bottom 6 outside of Vermette and maybe Garbutt)

It's funny but I was thinking exactly the opposite. I put Ehlers value a fair bit ahead of Theodore. And I really like Theodore.

Hehe we're probably experiencing homervision. Maybe that actually is an equal swap. Still don't wanna do it, though.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Based on what exactly, certainly wasn't true in regards to their time in the WHL.

Interesting note regarding their offensive numbers, Theodore's Gulls scored 202 goals in 68 games, Theodore had 37 points in 50 or .74 PPG pace on a team that averaged 2.97 goals per game.

Morrissey's Moose scored 171 goals in 78 games, Morrissey scored 22 points in 59 games or a .39 PPG on a team that scored 2.18 goals per game.

Do you think the incredibly offensively talented Gulls team that Theodore played on helped his point totals a little bit?

The flaw in your post is that theodore played a good chunk of games in the nhl. Also where was this strength of team stuff when theodore was playing on bad jr teams?

 

[Ducksgo*]

The flaw in your post is that theodore played a good chunk of games in the nhl. Also where was this strength of team stuff when theodore was playing on bad jr teams?

Just ignore it. It's like talking to a wall at this point. Anyone who have evaluated Theo IRL and have read scouting reports knows he's possibly a franchise defenseman. Just silly lol

 

[JetsHomer]

The flaw in your post is that theodore played a good chunk of games in the nhl. Also where was this strength of team stuff when theodore was playing on bad jr teams?

How is that a flaw when I was comparing their AHL numbers?

If you want to compare strength of teams thats fine. Morrissey's Prince Albert Raiders didn't finish ahead of Theodore's Seattle Thunderbirds in points a single year they were both playing in the WHL. So it looks to me like Morrissey did better than Theodore despite playing on worse teams?

 

[lindholmie]

How is that a flaw when I was comparing their AHL numbers?

If you want to compare strength of teams thats fine. Morrissey's Prince Albert Raiders didn't finish ahead of Theodore's Seattle Thunderbirds in points a single year they were both playing in the WHL. So it looks to me like Morrissey did better than Theodore despite playing on worse teams?

lol dude morrisey isnt as good as theo. theos game has gone up. morrisey regressed

 

[Maukkis]

lol dude morrisey isnt as good as theo. theos game has gone up. morrisey regressed

Here we are again with the regressing 20 year olds. Should we just stop drafting completely, as everyone we draft seems to regress immediately?

 

[JetsHomer]

lol dude morrisey isnt as good as theo. theos game has gone up. morrisey regressed

Another solid argument from lindholmie, not really a fan of supporting your point, are you? What exactly about Morrissey has regressed? You gotta stop just looking at point totals dude. Especially to judge Dmen

It'll be interesting to see how both these guys perform now that they have both likely grown beyond the AHL level of competition

 

[lindholmie]

Here we are again with the regressing 20 year olds. Should we just stop drafting completely, as everyone we draft seems to regress immediately?

whos talking about your other prospects??? connor is goooood . Morrisey regressed a bit. its not the end of the world lmao. im not saying hes going to be a bottom pairing defensemen. Theo just upped his game. josh didnt keep up.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Theo is a prospect and unproven, albeit he looks good. You may be selling Josh a bit short, while I agree he seems most likely to be top 4, he has potential to be top pairing. Just seems you're calling Theo a lock for top pairing and discounting Josh. Both are prospects, both are high end prospects, both have lots to prove though.....my point is lots could change over the next 1-2 years with both.

Trouba, Toby (2 years still) and Josh on the left side, where is the big need for the Jets that would require them to trade away a major asset to get another LHD? By the time Toby is done in two years Josh takes over top 4, Trouba is already our top pairing LHD. Stanley takes over 3rd pairing in 1-2 years perfectly inline with Toby leaving. Where is this glaring LHD need?

Rhd is Buff, Myers and Chariot/Postma.

Why do we want to trade away a Elite forward prospect (Connor) or high end forward (Ehlers) (for a LHD prospect we don't really need badly) and downgrade at forward to one of our B level prospects?

Sorry I don't see any big need at LHD.

Ehlers only has what 50ish more games of nhl experience, in a position easier to transition into.

Theodore looked pretty good at an nhl level 8 points in 19 games, is pretty solid start... he also got stuck playing tougher mins when we went through some injury issues mid season. Unproven is a bit disrespectful, he has been great at every level and even showed flashes of greatness at a nhl level.


I understand the Jets not wanting to trade ehlers, but purely at a value standpoint the 2 are pretty close in value. I can't see either team doing it at this point tho, ducks need theo , idk that the Jets actually need ehlers but I think they would want a more seasoned dmen if he was being traded.

 

[CaptainChef]

I'm not neutral, I'm a jet fan. Jets need left D now and in the foreseeable future. Morrissey ceiling is 2nd pair. Theodore has a higher ceiling based on what I've seen since they were drafted and turned Pro.
Ehlers is not replaceable but is less of a need than a quality LD at this point. With Perreault Conner Petan and Lemieux in the system and a variety of Other left wingers at our call let's correct a drafting error and get a quality left D.
I don't really care which one is superior now or in the future we need both.

Sure we need LD, but we're not desperate to the point of trading one of best prospects to get "a potential" top pairing LD. Yes, Theodore is good, but he's a long way from a guaranteed top pairing D. Ehlers on the other hand is already a top line forward -- in his rookie year in the NHL (and has elite potential written all over him). And I'm not considering Connor as trade bait to get Thoedore either.

So how desperate are we really for a LD. Enstrom is definitely not going to last forever. Trouba may be moved to LD & may do very well there - certainly he has top-pairing potential. I'd argue that Morrissey also has top-pairing potential. beyond that, some guys are high on Niku, Stanley was a first rounder... Not sold on these guys ever making top-pairing, but certainly they have a chance to be top 4 eventually.

So no, we are not even close to being desperate enough to trade Ehlers or Connor straight up for a potential top-pairing LD. Give it a rest.

 

[eternalbedhead]

It's funny but I was thinking exactly the opposite. I put Ehlers value a fair bit ahead of Theodore. And I really like Theodore.

Hehe we're probably experiencing homervision. Maybe that actually is an equal swap. Still don't wanna do it, though.

Nah, I do think Ehlers is the better prospect, and in a vacuum, we'd win a 1-for-1 trade involving the two. Same as you though, I don't think I'd want to part with Theodore. We have plenty of talent on the left side, but unfortunately, with the trade rumors surrounding Fowler, Lindholm's contract issues, and Larsson being unproven still, Theodore is about the only sure thing we have on the left side.