Confirmed Trade: [ANA/VGK] Evgenii Dadonov, cond. 2023/24 2nd round pick for John Moore, Ryan Kesler [OFFICIALLY VOIDED]

[GAGLine]

See below. Search for @mouser posts whenever there is CBA questions. As good as it gets on here

Thanks.

@mouser do you have a copy of the by-laws? If so, I'd appreciate if you could send it to me.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Not sure why sens are getting blamed. I thought all lists were filed with the nhl

The lists are not filed with the NHL.

Vegas never actually looked at Dadonov's contract? If there's a NTC, wouldn't it have to be stated there?

They knew it was part of his contract, they were told he didn't submit his list on time so the NTC wasn't in effect.

 

[Fatass]

Serevelli, on local Van sport's radio this morning, saying that Dadanov's wife had a bady this last week.
Vegas sure is cutthroat. Trying to force a guy to accept a trade (to a team on his no go list) and he's got a wife at home with a newborn.

 

[NYR94]

 

[inthewings]

Serevelli, on local Van sport's radio this morning, saying that Dadanov's wife had a bady this last week.
Vegas sure is cutthroat. Trying to force a guy to accept a trade (to a team on his no go list) and he's got a wife at home with a newborn.

Vegas sounds like a terrible org to play for. And a bit incompetent.

 

[GAGLine]

The lists are not filed with the NHL.

They knew it was part of his contract, they were told he didn't submit his list on time so the NTC wasn't in effect.

Vegas still should have confirmed with Dadonov's agent.

 

[Mattb124]

This type of information can easily be encrypted and forwarded with every trade as a rule.

There are many high school level workarounds to the flow of information that prevents the f***up we just witnessed.

Whoever is responsible is just very incompetent

Or even a sealed envelope delivered to the NHL office, only to be opened in conjunction with a trade call for that player.

 

[Fatass]

Vegas sounds like a terrible org to play for. And a bit incompetent.

I wonder if we will ever get to know if Vegas was talking to the 22 teams (not on Dadanov's list) about trading him before they went to teams that were on his list? IF it was Toronto or Montreal or NYR (or any huge Market where hockey was important) I'm thinking a reporter would do that. In Vegas is there a hockey reporter?

 

[Larry Hanson]

Vegas still should have confirmed with Dadonov's agent.

Do you think teams regularly meet with agents to review contracts that are already in place, just to be sure?

 

[Greek_physique]

So this deal could technically still go through if Dadonov accepts a trade...he would just sit out the rest of the year and get paid. I mean, it might not be that bad.

Can LV still put Moore and Kesler on LTIR?

 

[Mattb124]

League sources, but not the league. If Ottawa really did anything wrong I expect the league to punishment shortly because that's not okay conduct.

(But spoiler alert, that likely wont come because there is no evidence Ottawa did anything wrong)

Funny how, when the NHL and Vegas got together, they found that the blame was on the party not involved in the discussion.

 

[Craigo85]

To build off of that - if it does leak, that gives GMs who may want to trade for him a huge advantage. Again hypothetically, if say Dallas wanted to trade for Mac to really push for the playoffs, knowing that the teams that also need him for a playoff push/solidify their place in the standings were on his no trade list & the ones that he would go to are all in the middle of a rebuild & don't need him is huge. Instead of making a big offer thinking that there's going to be a bidding war he could make a reasonable but much less painful offer.

All the NTC, NMC, etc clauses do need to be sent to the NHL but sealed in such a manner that they can only be opened when that individual player is involved in a trade. The trading team verifies to the receiving team that he's ok to go to them. The NHL opens the digital envelope (or a physical one if they wish) & confirms that the receiving team isn't on the list. After the trade goes through then the receiving team gets the list forwarded on to them (they don't get to see it beforehand, only to be assured that they aren't on the list)

I think the filing of lists with the league is more complicated than it needs to be and the players/teams may not like it or trust it. I'm not sure what the numbers are on how many NTCs are out there and how often a player is traded, but I'd assume a high percentage of no trade lists will never be needed.

NHL changes in the future to mitigate this without sharing information:
1) Paperwork (and confirmed on trade call) between trading teams explicitly makes the sending team confirm that a) The player did not list the receiving team on their no trade list / doesn't have a full NTC/NMC and/or b) Team's position is that player no longer has a valid NTC for _____ reason
* 2) Teams required to inform player/agent after X date that they believe a NTC is no longer valid. If the player/agent disagree and cannot come to a conclusion, NHL+NHLPA would get involved ahead of any subsequent trades
3) Teams acquiring players should ask the player and sending team for a copy of their no trade list, or similar to #2 above, tell them the team's position is that it is invalid.

* I really think 2) should be that the player/agent then has 24-48 hours to file/re-file it with the team but that would be giving the players something. Considering the screw up here, I think the NHLPA should be asking for something like this now and get it amended into the CBA so the NHL doesn't look dumb again.



In this case if a trade is cancelled or contested afterwards, the blame would be much easier to track and punish the offending team.

 

[Finnflash]

What a terrible mess especially for the player.

I would say the league Ottawa and vegas all share responsibility. It isn’t enough for a team (Ottawa) to say no he didn’t submit. That has to be proven. Can’t just ask their word.

Seems sketchy by all parties and shame on them all

 

[GAGLine]

Do you think teams regularly meet with agents to review contracts that are already in place, just to be sure?

Why would they meet? They just need to pick up the phone. And yes, I'm sure GMs talk to agents on a regular basis.

You don't think people in Vegas talked to his agent at the time he was traded? They absolutely did. At the very least, they had to give Dadonov all the logistical info so he knows where he's going and when he has to be there. I'm sure he wasn't booking his own flights. They also have to help him get set up with a place to live, so they probably sent him hotel info (for the short term) and info on longer term accommodations.

If I'm the GM of a team and the GM of another team tells me that the player's NTC is voided, you can bet your ass I'm calling that player's agent to make sure they have the same understanding.

 

[Jumptheshark]

This is great, 2500 posts & it's still not sure what's going on.

At this point I'd say the blame falls:
60% on Ottawa - didn't send the entire contract, possibly misled Vegas on the trade call*
30% on Vegas - in the 8 months that he was there they didn't bother reviewing a multi million dollar contract & notice that an addendum was missing
10% on the NHL - don't have a procedure in place to have all NTC, NMC, etc sent to the league (sealed & only opened when that player is involved in a trade)

/*there is a theory floating around that on the OTT/VGK trade call that Ottawa said that Vegas didn't need to worry about the NTC 'because Vegas wasn't on the list' and not that there was no valid NTC. Technically correct but easily open to misinterpretation as we've all seen - but that doesn't absolve them from forwarding on that information with the rest of the contract

Disagree with the Sens getting any blame. Nhl reportedly had the list at some point in time.vegas knew about the list.. we can not be in a world where puckpedia and capfriendly have more information than the different teams.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Why would they meet? They just need to pick up the phone. And yes, I'm sure GMs talk to agents on a regular basis.

You don't think people in Vegas talked to his agent at the time he was traded? They absolutely did. At the very least, they had to give Dadonov all the logistical info so he knows where he's going and when he has to be there. I'm sure he wasn't booking his own flights. They also have to help him get set up with a place to live, so they probably sent him hotel info (for the short term) and info on longer term accommodations.

If I'm the GM of a team and the GM of another team tells me that the player's NTC is voided, you can bet your ass I'm calling that player's agent to make sure they have the same understanding.

Sure GM's and teams talk on a regular basis but I doubt they are re-hashing things that (they think) have already been settled.

Yes, they would have talked to Dadanov after he was traded to let him know what was going on. At that point the trade deadline had passed and it was too late, that's why we are here now. I believe the acquiring team handles the moving logistics, if so the Ducks would have been the one to contact him about travel and accommodations but I don't think it got that far.

It's easy in hindsight to say you wouldn't have believed the Senators and double checked for yourself.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Disagree with the Sens getting any blame. Nhl reportedly had the list at some point in time.vegas knew about the list.. we can not be in a world where puckpedia and capfriendly have more information than the different teams.

This is not true. The NHL did not have the list and Vegas didn't know about it. Puckpedia and Capfriendly did not have more information than any team involved.

 

[Jumptheshark]

This is not true. The NHL did not have the list and Vegas didn't know about it. Puckpedia and Capfriendly did not have more information than any team involved.

My bad. I thought both puck and cap listed that he had a m-ntc. Must have missed read it

 

[Larry Hanson]

My bad. I thought both puck and cap listed that he had a m-ntc. Must have missed read it

They had it listed but (from all evidence) Vegas and the NHL were in the understanding that he hadn't submitted his list and therefore the NTC was invalid.

 

[GAGLine]

Sure GM's and teams talk on a regular basis but I doubt they are re-hashing things that (they think) have already been settled.

Yes, they would have talked to Dadanov after he was traded to let him know what was going on. At that point the trade deadline had passed and it was too late, that's why we are here now. I believe the acquiring team handles the moving logistics, if so the Ducks would have been the one to contact him about travel and accommodations but I don't think it got that far.

It's easy in hindsight to say you wouldn't have believed the Senators and double checked for yourself.

I'm talking about when he was traded to Vegas from Ottawa.

And yes, it is easy in hindsight to say that, but it's also not my job. Look at the mess it caused because they didn't do their due diligence. They have lawyers who look at this stuff and not one of them thought to verify it?

 

[Craigo85]

I don't like the blame being cast at Ottawa so much later. The return policy on the Vegas-Sens trade lapsed a long time ago. I'm a Leafs fan and have no love for the senators.

Does anybody actually believe that in a real business situation where 2 companies were doing M&A deals, they wouldn't do anything about this?
- Company A is selling a business/group of assets to company B, lets say it's for $20M
- among the many contracts or assets Company A is selling, there is one contract that has a material impact on the valuation of the deal. Call that contract X.
- Contract X would make the business being sold responsible for about $5M liability ($5M vs $20M is pretty material to the deal)
- Contract X has some triggering events in it that are likely to happen in the future (ie if Company B tried to do some future deals)
- Company A asserts in the deal that Contract X is no longer valid because the Company C (the other party to contract X) never filed certain paper work by a deadline.
- Lets assume that Company B can't contact Company C because of whatever confidential agreements were signed during the due diligence phase
- Part of the Company A/B deal includes a hold back payment period where B has some time to conduct more due diligence (like in the NHL having a player meet with your doctors, etc)

If you were Company B, would you really just take Company's A word about contract X and never talk to Company C about it? Assuming you still went through with the deal, I think you'd want to know as soon as possible afterwards to try and hold back money, torpedo the deal, start a lawsuit while its still fresh, etc. I don't think its reasonable to wait a long time and just hope its never an issue .... especially as you get close to another deadline and you want to do something that triggers Contract X that ruins your next deal.

 

[sting101]

Pretty hilarious that Capfriendly has the info yet the Knights supposedly didn't.

Even more hilarious that the Knights were unaware of the working agreement between them and their employee and are trying to pass the buck

As mentioned a simple phone call to his agent would have ended the trade process. It's my understanding that teams usually extend the courtesy of thanking and notifying a player of being relocated and when doing so would have known that they couldn't trade Dadonov to Anaheim. Perhaps they shouldn't leave their work to the last 10 minutes so they could have avoided this mess.

Hope whoever ends up helping Vegas get out of their mess bends them over a barrel. What a terrible way to treat Dadonov

 

[Craigo85]

Does Dadonov have any ability to file a grievance against Vegas/NHL? This has probably damaged him/his future in the NHL to some extent (impacting him psychologically, less games to play, will he get to play this year, retaliation from Vegas?).

It put him in a bad position and have to wonder if the "old boys club" will impact him.

 

[GAGLine]

Does Dadonov have any ability to file a grievance against Vegas/NHL? This has probably damaged him/his future in the NHL to some extent (impacting him psychologically, less games to play, will he get to play this year, retaliation from Vegas?).

It put him in a bad position and have to wonder if the "old boys club" will impact him.

If he ends up getting traded and isn't able to play the rest of the year, I can see him filing a grievance. But as it stands, probably not.

Vegas may end up having to trade Reilly Smith instead, as he is a pending UFA and makes the same amount. Either way it's a shitty thing to do to a player.

 

[inthewings]

It's remarkable how many people are commenting on page 100+ of this thread seemingly without having read any of the details about what happened.