Confirmed Trade: [ANA/VGK] Evgenii Dadonov, cond. 2023/24 2nd round pick for John Moore, Ryan Kesler [OFFICIALLY VOIDED]

[Rec T]

This is great, 2500 posts & it's still not sure what's going on.

At this point I'd say the blame falls:
60% on Ottawa - didn't send the entire contract, possibly misled Vegas on the trade call*
30% on Vegas - in the 8 months that he was there they didn't bother reviewing a multi million dollar contract & notice that an addendum was missing
10% on the NHL - don't have a procedure in place to have all NTC, NMC, etc sent to the league (sealed & only opened when that player is involved in a trade)

/*there is a theory floating around that on the OTT/VGK trade call that Ottawa said that Vegas didn't need to worry about the NTC 'because Vegas wasn't on the list' and not that there was no valid NTC. Technically correct but easily open to misinterpretation as we've all seen - but that doesn't absolve them from forwarding on that information with the rest of the contract

 

[IslesNorway]

How hard is it to load all contracts and clauses into a database, and every time a trade happens it is cross checked with that database?? I mean, it's not exactly rocket science

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

How simple is it.

Every player that has some sort of trade protection(outside of full no movement) you ask the list, as team policy. Nothing more, nothing less, no big deal.

It’s your job to know

Yes, I agree with that. It doesn't make sense for the general manager to not know a player's clauses.

I just don't hope Vegas puts out a poor excuse for this type of trade.

 

[Smitty426]

So now, he can be traded elsewhere but not play the remainder of the season? I thought it was just in playoff games. What does that do for Vegas? If they are close to making it in and stone is ready they've GOT to move him for a loss, correct? Some team (Dado approves of) will get him with a ton of sweeteners and give up nothing to make them compliment.

 

[CDN24]

How hard is it to load all contracts and clauses into a database, and every time a trade happens it is cross checked with that database?? I mean, it's not exactly rocket science

I think the issue is some players/agents don't a central list due to the risk of that info leaking. Say you have a star player with a M-NTC clause he can be Canadian on a US team. I'll use Nathan Mckinnon as an example- his contract allows him to submit a list of 19 teams he will accept a trade to. No one knows who is on his list. Lets assume there is no Cdn team on his list. If that list is central and the info leaks he may face blowback because start cdn does not want to play in Canada. Not this is an example only- no idea who is on Nathan's list.

 

[Rec T]

So now, he can be traded elsewhere but not play the remainder of the season? I thought it was just in playoff games. What does that do for Vegas? If they are close to making it in and stone is ready they've GOT to move him for a loss, correct? Some team (Dado approves of) will get him with a ton of sweeteners and give up nothing to make them compliment.

From what I understand, even if they do move Dadanov that won't clear enough cap space to get Stone 'or' Martinez back. The combination of moving him & getting the LTIR contracts of Kessler & Moore would have made it possible. But now Vegas is screwed. Theoretically they could trade him & then not dress players with a big enough contract to get Martinez back (playing with a short bench), but Stone won't be miraculously cured until the playoffs (if they make it) roll around.

And yeah, if they want to move Dadanov, it's going to be very expensive for Vegas at this point. A first or multiple mid round picks along with him for a 5th round pick...

 

[HolyGhost]

Not sure why sens are getting blamed. I thought all lists were filed with the nhl

 

[Rec T]

I think the issue is some players/agents don't a central list due to the risk of that info leaking. Say you have a star player with a M-NTC clause he can be Canadian on a US team. I'll use Nathan Mckinnon as an example- his contract allows him to submit a list of 19 teams he will accept a trade to. No one knows who is on his list. Lets assume there is no Cdn team on his list. If that list is central and the info leaks he may face blowback because start cdn does not want to play in Canada. Not this is an example only- no idea who is on Nathan's list.

To build off of that - if it does leak, that gives GMs who may want to trade for him a huge advantage. Again hypothetically, if say Dallas wanted to trade for Mac to really push for the playoffs, knowing that the teams that also need him for a playoff push/solidify their place in the standings were on his no trade list & the ones that he would go to are all in the middle of a rebuild & don't need him is huge. Instead of making a big offer thinking that there's going to be a bidding war he could make a reasonable but much less painful offer.

All the NTC, NMC, etc clauses do need to be sent to the NHL but sealed in such a manner that they can only be opened when that individual player is involved in a trade. The trading team verifies to the receiving team that he's ok to go to them. The NHL opens the digital envelope (or a physical one if they wish) & confirms that the receiving team isn't on the list. After the trade goes through then the receiving team gets the list forwarded on to them (they don't get to see it beforehand, only to be assured that they aren't on the list)

 

[saintunspecified]

How hard is it to load all contracts and clauses into a database, and every time a trade happens it is cross checked with that database?? I mean, it's not exactly rocket science

With all information management software - garbage info in, garbage info out. The thing isn't having the database, but using multiple ways to verify the information in it.

 

[Idlerlee]

I think the issue is some players/agents don't a central list due to the risk of that info leaking. Say you have a star player with a M-NTC clause he can be Canadian on a US team. I'll use Nathan Mckinnon as an example- his contract allows him to submit a list of 19 teams he will accept a trade to. No one knows who is on his list. Lets assume there is no Cdn team on his list. If that list is central and the info leaks he may face blowback because start cdn does not want to play in Canada. Not this is an example only- no idea who is on Nathan's list.

This type of information can easily be encrypted and forwarded with every trade as a rule.

There are many high school level workarounds to the flow of information that prevents the f***up we just witnessed.

Whoever is responsible is just very incompetent

 

[GAGLine]

From what I understand, even if they do move Dadanov that won't clear enough cap space to get Stone 'or' Martinez back. The combination of moving him & getting the LTIR contracts of Kessler & Moore would have made it possible. But now Vegas is screwed. Theoretically they could trade him & then not dress players with a big enough contract to get Martinez back (playing with a short bench), but Stone won't be miraculously cured until the playoffs (if they make it) roll around.

And yeah, if they want to move Dadanov, it's going to be very expensive for Vegas at this point. A first or multiple mid round picks along with him for a 5th round pick...

This is not true. Just moving Dadonov is enough for them to activate Martinez, but not enough to activate Stone.

Getting LTIR contracts in Kessler and Moore made no difference in the amount of cap space available to them.

Kesler has a 6.875 mil cap hit. Acquiring him would increase Vegas' cap ceiling by 6.875 mil, but also increase the amount they were spending by 6.875 mil. There is no benefit to getting Kesler, and no penalty since they are already into LTIR. The only benefit they got from this trade was moving out Dadonov's 5 mil cap hit. They need just under 5 mil to activate Martinez.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

That’s the part that gets me. Not sure I think it’s negligence on the Vegas part. More so the NHL. If the league and Vegas are ‘led to believe’ NTC is no longer valid, I have no problem with Vegas taking the leagues word for it. Why isn’t the league verifying that information?

Vegas never actually looked at Dadonov's contract? If there's a NTC, wouldn't it have to be stated there?

 

[Quack Shot]

Does anyone know the page number in the CBA that talks about the trade deadline and players not being eligible in the regular season if they’re traded after the deadline? Can’t seem to find it anywhere

 

[Jumptheshark]

Kyper is spot on

 

[GAGLine]

Does anyone know the page number in the CBA that talks about the trade deadline and players not being eligible in the regular season if they’re traded after the deadline? Can’t seem to find it anywhere

I don't see anything in the CBA explicitly stating it, or really anything that even hints at it.

 

[missionAvs]

The trade being invalidated is a black and white issue and the league got it right. What bothers me about this whole situation is how nonchalantly the trade process seems to be able to progress in the NHL, hell it might even be like this in other leagues, I don't know. I mean, these contracts are worth millions of dollars with huge implications that might affect the playoff picture of the league. Like even if Ottawa is to blame and they mislead the league and the Knights, how the hell do the latter parties just take their word for it?

The way that the league paints this picture of the blame resting exclusively on the shoulders of the Sens sounds like this scenario to me.

Dorion: Hey yeah, no! There is no NTC for Dadonov. Easy!

McCrimmon: You promise?

Dorion: Absolutely!

McCrimmon and League: Okay thanks!

 

[Taylorst]

I don't see Chicago making a deal with vegas unless Kyle is blown away that he can't refuse... Tyler Johnson gives chicago another center in case they lose strome and or toews over the summer ..

 

[Quack Shot]

I don't see anything in the CBA explicitly stating it, or really anything that even hints at it.

Same, can’t find anything either way.

 

[895]

 

[37Bergenov14]

But Vegas could have asked Dadonov. It's this concept called "due diligence".

For example, I know that cars are supposed to let me through on crosswalk. So do I always close my eyes and just cross it every time? No, I make sure there's no crazy drunkards speeding first.

Right, but in your example, even though you (Vegas) should be checking anyways, if you didn't and got hit, in many/most US jurisdictions the driver (Ottawa) would typically still be at fault.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

This may be too simplistic, but can't they just ask Dadonov to waive at this point? Or, is the issue that he won't waive.

I would think that playing in Anaheim would be better than not playing at all (or playing in Vegas at this point, for that matter).

 

[tarheelhockey]

 

[AslanRH]

Does anyone know the page number in the CBA that talks about the trade deadline and players not being eligible in the regular season if they’re traded after the deadline? Can’t seem to find it anywhere

I don't see anything in the CBA explicitly stating it, or really anything that even hints at it.

See below. Search for @mouser posts whenever there is CBA questions. As good as it gets on here

The rule is not in the CBA itself, it's in a old NHL By-Laws section 12.4 on Eligibility of Players. All NHL By-Laws remain in effect unless they're replaced by new rules in the CBA. The CBA explicitly includes all NHL By-Laws in its rules.

"12.4 A player transferred from the Reserve List to the equivalent list of another Member [Team] following the [Trade Deadline] shall not be eligible to play for the transferee club during the remainder of the playing season".

The language in this old By-Law has been altered by the CBA, for instance the trade deadline is now 40 days instead of 26 days when it was first written. But the CBA has not superseded the old By-Law by saying that players transferred from one team's Reserve List to another team's Reserve List after the deadline are now eligible. So this old By-Law is still in effect.

 

[Mr Positive]

League sources, but not the league. If Ottawa really did anything wrong I expect the league to punishment shortly because that's not okay conduct.

(But spoiler alert, that likely wont come because there is no evidence Ottawa did anything wrong)

 

[Quack Shot]

See below. Search for @mouser posts whenever there is CBA questions. As good as it gets on here

Thank you!!