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All Purpose Training Camp Thread.

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topched said:
This is my thing though Mess... why does Nonis have to "unload" dead weight?

If they're dead weight, just send them down to the Marlies. Shop them before the start of the season, see if you can get late round picks for them. If not put them on waivers and have someone put in a claim.

To me Kadri offers as much on the ice as Connolly and Lombardi do. Nonis needs to show that he's different than Burkie, that he's not all about "loyalty etc". Be accountable, let Carlyle pick his team, the best players should play.
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Hey you're preaching to the "play the kids" choir so you know where I stand on these matters..

However under the terms of the new CBA players sent to the minors on 1-way contracts count against the teams cap so when you send Connolly $4.75 mil and Lombardi $3.5 mil to the AHL their cap hits remain with the team and now also Kadri and Frattin's cap hits count and increase cap space because they don't overlap anymore..

So in that scenario all 4 players must count against the teams cap simultaneously while only 2 are actually on the roster.. With Kadri and Frattin costing $2.5 mil combined added to Connolly and Lombardi = over $10 mil in cap space utilized to keep Kadri and Frattin. Whereas if its the other way around then its only their cap hits applied and Kadri and Frattin come off the books if demoted.
 
Everyone is over reacting to Carlyle's comment. It's more of a good thing. Carlyle feels Kadri is ready. However, it's about when they can get him in the lineup. Maybe that is this saturday after Connolly, or Mac is moved or something.

Bottom line is, don't be calling for his head
 
Under the new CBA can we not take on a portion of a players salary? We could dump Connolly and Lombardi and retain say 2 mil each of both salaries, making them more attractive.
 
NaiveLeafsFan said:
Under the new CBA can we not take on a portion of a players salary? We could dump Connolly and Lombardi and retain say 2 mil each of both salaries, making them more attractive.
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Good point. I'm sure someone would be willing to take a 1.5M Lombardi, or a 2.5 Connolly.

Could be an option
 
The Amazing Ralph said:
To me that is encouraging, but also indicates that there is a possibility he ia sent down due to a logjam of bodies.

I's also like to point out that Wilson would never have said anything like that.
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can't imagine Kadri as a #1C on a Randy Carlyle coached team though. Not with Kessel on the wing that is, that line would need serious help without the puck and on the forecheck and Lupul is not John Tonelli.

I don't expect Nazem to make the Leafs this year.
 
Mess said:
Hey you're preaching to the "play the kids" choir so you know where I stand on these matters..

However under the terms of the new CBA players sent to the minors on 1-way contracts count against the teams cap so when you send Connolly $4.75 mil and Lombardi $3.5 mil to the AHL their cap hits remain with the team and now also Kadri and Frattin's cap hits count and increase cap space because they don't overlap anymore..

So in that scenario all 4 players must count against the teams cap simultaneously while only 2 are actually on the roster.. With Kadri and Frattin costing $2.5 mil combined added to Connolly and Lombardi = over $10 mil in cap space utilized to keep Kadri and Frattin. Whereas if its the other way around then its only their cap hits applied and Kadri and Frattin come off the books if demoted.
Click to expand...

The other problem is that it is a lot tougher to trade guys like Lombo and Connelly if they are playing in the AHL.

I can see Kadri & frattin going down to start the year but being told "it's just until we can make room for you" ....
 
Honestly, if kadri doesn't make the team that means that they don't think he's ready which is total b. I get it if we dont have room for him, but he doesnt deserve to be in the minors again. His value goes down and so does confidence because it doesnt matter how you sugar coat it
 
pspot said:
not to mention your two best face off guys (McClement and Steckel) are on the same line
Click to expand...

Last 3 years:

Steckel: 1791/1213 = 59.6% (11/12 = 58.0%)
Bozak: 1776/1511 = 54.0% (11/12 = 52.7%)
McClem: 1744/1693 = 50.7% (11/12 = 51.3%)
Grabo: 1474/1493 = 49.7% (11/12 = 51.5%)
Connolly: 1186/1333 = 47.1% (11/12 = 48.7%)

Steckel and Bozak are clearly our two best faceoff guys, McClem and Grabo are about average, Connolly slightly below average.
 
Mess said:
Hey you're preaching to the "play the kids" choir so you know where I stand on these matters..

However under the terms of the new CBA players sent to the minors on 1-way contracts count against the teams cap so when you send Connolly $4.75 mil and Lombardi $3.5 mil to the AHL their cap hits remain with the team and now also Kadri and Frattin's cap hits count and increase cap space because they don't overlap anymore..

So in that scenario all 4 players must count against the teams cap simultaneously while only 2 are actually on the roster.. With Kadri and Frattin costing $2.5 mil combined added to Connolly and Lombardi = over $10 mil in cap space utilized to keep Kadri and Frattin. Whereas if its the other way around then its only their cap hits applied and Kadri and Frattin come off the books if demoted.
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I'm not even a "play the kids" guy necessarily. Its more of a play the best players. To me Kadri has far more value and potential than aging vets who put up 36 and 18 points.

We're a high spending team, not up against the cap for the first time in a number of years. If anything this is a way we can "flex our financial muscle" in demoting expensive players in favour of younger ones at an extra cost... unlike Phoenix or Columbus who would need to save that $.

Also remember that its only half a season, so everything is just over half the cap $$.

Drew75 said:
The other problem is that it is a lot tougher to trade guys like Lombo and Connelly if they are playing in the AHL.

I can see Kadri & frattin going down to start the year but being told "it's just until we can make room for you" ....
Click to expand...

Who cares about trading them? These guys have little value as is.

Its not like Komisarek where we were worried about eating his contract up long-term. These guys are FA's at the end of the year anyways. Sure before you demote them you try to get picks for them, you also could hope that someone will take a chance on them and pick them up on waivers for free.
 
topched said:
I'm not even a "play the kids" guy necessarily. Its more of a play the best players. To me Kadri has far more value and potential than aging vets who put up 36 and 18 points.
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I don't think he's more valuable at all, not right now, and especially not projecting his play in the NHL, without the puck. A coach would trust Lombardi, Connolly, McClement, Steckel over Nazem any day. But Nazem has the potential to put up points and create offense that those cannot. But that comes with risk and cost and in a short season, I'm not sure it's worth it. We shall see.

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
JVR - Connolly - Kadri
Kulemin - Grabovski - MacArthur
Komarov - McClement - Frattin
Lombardi - Steckel - Brown

In order for Kadri to be on this team, he'll have to take Bozak's spot (which I think is a tough fit OR the #2 winger (likely competing with Kulemin, Komarov, Frattin, MacArthur) which is possible. Although Nazem is probably the most talented WITH the puck, he's the least capable without it - and Carlyle probably cares about BOTH equally, in the role.
 
redbull said:
I don't think he's more valuable at all, not right now, and especially not projecting his play in the NHL, without the puck. A coach would trust Lombardi, Connolly, McClement, Steckel over Nazem any day. But Nazem has the potential to put up points and create offense that those cannot. But that comes with risk and cost and in a short season, I'm not sure it's worth it. We shall see.

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
JVR - Connolly - Kadri
Kulemin - Grabovski - MacArthur
Komarov - McClement - Frattin
Lombardi - Steckel - Brown

In order for Kadri to be on this team, he'll have to take Bozak's spot (which I think is a tough fit OR the #2 winger (likely competing with Kulemin, Komarov, Frattin, MacArthur) which is possible. Although Nazem is probably the most talented WITH the puck, he's the least capable without it - and Carlyle probably cares about BOTH equally, in the role.
Click to expand...


By that logic, kessel should be in the minors

to the bold
:shakehead
 
mikebel111 said:
By that logic, kessel should be in the minors

to the bold
:shakehead
Click to expand...

if Kessel scored as frequently as Kadri, he would be in the minors.

#hugedifferenceNO?

You can't play a 1 dimensional player if he can't produce in that SINGLE dimension. Kessel's a heck of a player, he can score as well as anyone in hockey (arguably). Kadri cannot. Yet.
 
redbull said:
I don't think he's more valuable at all, not right now, and especially not projecting his play in the NHL, without the puck. A coach would trust Lombardi, Connolly, McClement, Steckel over Nazem any day. But Nazem has the potential to put up points and create offense that those cannot. But that comes with risk and cost and in a short season, I'm not sure it's worth it. We shall see.

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
JVR - Connolly - Kadri
Kulemin - Grabovski - MacArthur
Komarov - McClement - Frattin
Lombardi - Steckel - Brown

In order for Kadri to be on this team, he'll have to take Bozak's spot (which I think is a tough fit OR the #2 winger (likely competing with Kulemin, Komarov, Frattin, MacArthur) which is possible. Although Nazem is probably the most talented WITH the puck, he's the least capable without it - and Carlyle probably cares about BOTH equally, in the role.
Click to expand...

Newsflash: This team's hopes for the playoffs don't exist on a difference between Kadri and Connolly. We've gotta have some guys play out of their mind, mainly Reimer, if we even want to squeak in.

I think Carlyle will roll 4 lines give our makeup. He can easily go with a hybrid scoring/checking line with Kadri between Kulemin and Frattin for example. Gone are the days of the Top 6, Bottom 6 nonsense.

We can't be sure he's the least capable without it anymore. He's made strides this year, and Eakins has got the Marlies running the same defensive system that the Carlyle intends to run with the leafs. At this point the only way for Kadri to learn to play without the puck is to watch talented players like Grabo do it, and also face off against competition where he gets burned when he doesnt focus 100% of his efforts on defense in his own zone.
 
zeke said:
If Carlyle breaks camp with all of Kessel, Lupul, Grabo, Mac, JVR, Kuly, Connolly, Bozak, and Kadri in his top-9, I will be very impressed.....and extremely happy.

That would be as deep a group of scoring forwards as there is in the league.
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Not really, it is above average at best.
 
So many other teams are doing waivers. Why not Toronto?

TSNBobMcKenzie said:
Today's waivers: E Oberg (TB). G Desbiens, P Mullen (VAN). S Legein, D Meckler, M-A Cliche, T Hickey (LAK). J Pearce, F Pare (DET).

Wathier, M Fortunas, L Gazdic, T Morin, T Petersen, T Sloan (DAL). S Backman, N McIver, M Watkins, T Wishart (NYI).

More waivers: M Ford, D Syvret (PHI). B Lerg, S Sullivan, B Thomas (COL). P-L Letourneau-Leblond (ANA). T Eckford, H Jessiman, N Lawson (OTT)

And WSH: R Potulny, Z Hamill, M Clackson, D Sabourin, P McNeill, G Stafford, K Marshall.
Click to expand...
 
topched said:
This is my thing though Mess... why does Nonis have to "unload" dead weight?

If they're dead weight, just send them down to the Marlies. Shop them before the start of the season, see if you can get late round picks for them. If not put them on waivers and have someone put in a claim.

To me Kadri offers as much on the ice as Connolly and Lombardi do. Nonis needs to show that he's different than Burkie, that he's not all about "loyalty etc". Be accountable, let Carlyle pick his team, the best players should play.
Click to expand...

If Kadri shows more than Connolly that would be an indicator he's ready.
 
Listened to the presser and it definitely doesn't sound like Carlyle believes Kadri is ready. He implied that his body isnt in NHL form with his reference to Bobby Ryan. He said its about when hes ready to be given a spot or when hes ready to earn and spot and we are all about earning.

Anywhoodles. carry on.
 
leafers said:
Not really, it is above average at best.
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you won't find many teams with 8 forwards who've averaged better than a 40pt pace the past 2yrs, especially with 2 guys who produced at a PPG+ pace last year, and 2 more dmen who've scored at a 40+pt pace the last 2yrs to boot.

but you could go check the numbers yourself if you'd like.
 
From practice today, Carlyle said he could use Connolly in the checking role again, though he has historically been on scoring lines. He doesn't see him being on the fourth line. I would expect him to be on a third line that can play both ends well.

Carlyle also said today, he keeps coming back to Lupul, Bozak and Kessel on the first line. He will have 3 scoring type lines and one physical line. one of the scoring lines will be a shutdown line that also is expected to score. He is not adverse to double shifting a guy like Kessel in certain situations even onto the fourth line.



Also this...

Jake Gardiner is nowhere near ready. So don't expect him for at least the first 10 games of the season and maybe longer.
by Bob Mitchell 2:12 PM
 
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