All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XIII - the 23 deadline approaches

[Derailed75]

That's part of it and honestly why they were so successful as long as they were. They HAD to pay out to some of those players because drafting in the late 20s every year if you had a 1st at all you aren't going to get franchise players to replace your veterans. Once Aho, Slavin, Pesce etc come up for contract renewals we're going to have make similar choices.

Very interesting that you used Aho (2), Slavin (4), and Pesce (3) as your examples of not being able to keep your team good picking late.

Not a one of them was a first rounder.

 

[LakeLivin]

I think some who are alluding to the possibility that Dundon might be operating from a perspective of prioritizing revenue have lost sight of the ego of pro sports franchise owners. I doubt Dundon bought the Canes purely as an investment and I'd wager that he wants a Cup as much or more than any of us do.

 

[Derailed75]

While I'm not sure that losing 4 points over the last 10 games to the team you're chasing counts as rapidly catching up the rest of your post is quite valid and the Borg really needs to plan the response.

Not sure they "bodied" us in the playoffs either. We had a back up netminder and a rookie and we went to game 7

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Very interesting that you used Aho (2), Slavin (4), and Pesce (3) as your examples of not being able to keep your team good picking late.

Not a one of them was a first rounder.

The one stroke of luck in our recent organization's history was Svechnikov, and they didn't even tank to get him. Everything else has been about great drafting and trades. Even with our 1sts, neither Necas nor Jarvis were obvious picks at the time that they were made.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Tarasenko to NYR - they are loading up.

Tank reportedly would only waive for that area previously. Probably tied St. Louis's hands.

Rangers sent conditional 2023 first- and 2024 fourth-round picks, forward Sammy Blais and prospect Hunter Skinner to the Blues for the prolific scoring winger, who’s set to be an unrestricted free agent after the season, and depth defenseman Niko Mikkola.

How does everyone value the trade? Reasonable assets given up?

 

[Derailed75]

The one stroke of luck in our recent organization's history was Svechnikov, and they didn't even tank to get him. Everything else has been about great drafting and trades. Even with our 1sts, neither Necas nor Jarvis were obvious picks at the time that they were made.

Just a well run organization top to bottom. Teams like these compete year in year out and while some people may complain about that. You wont hear that out of me I have spent all of my 48 years as a Browns and Indians/Guardians fan and a Canes fan since the move. I know what having a bottom feeder of a team is like. You get disinterested in the sport about halfway through the season, right when you realize they have zero chance. Its much more fun to watch your team make the playoffs every year and be contenders every year. Sure losing in the playoffs suck but the sting of that loss is nowhere near as bad and the dread of playing out another shit season.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Rangers sent conditional 2023 first- and 2024 fourth-round picks, forward Sammy Blais and prospect Hunter Skinner to the Blues for the prolific scoring winger, who’s set to be an unrestricted free agent after the season, and depth defenseman Niko Mikkola.

How does everyone value the trade? Reasonable assets given up?

If Tarasenko extends with NY, it's more-than-reasonable. For a rental, it's a lot to give up, and it may have to be a rental because the Rangers need to extend Chytil and Lafreniere.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

If Tarasenko extends with NY, it's more-than-reasonable. For a rental, it's a lot to give up, and it may have to be a rental because the Rangers need to extend Chytil and Lafreniere.

Very little chance he is extended due to their cap structure

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Very little chance he is extended due to their cap structure

Agreed, it's ridiculous to me that the Rags are trading 1sts for rentals in back to back years. They had a nice little fluke run last year but they are not legit contenders lol. Just throwing picks away to maybe do a tiny bit better in the playoffs. I think Devils easily dispatch them from the playoffs in round 1 if that's the matchup, Tank or no Tank.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Agreed, it's ridiculous to me that the Rags are trading 1sts for rentals in back to back years. They had a nice little fluke run last year but they are not legit contenders lol. Just throwing picks away to maybe do a tiny bit better in the playoffs. I think Devils easily dispatch them from the playoffs in round 1 if that's the matchup, Tank or no Tank.

I disagree. NJ is much too small, poor defensively, and weak at goaltender to be a serious contender. Things will be a lot tighter in the playoffs.

Rangers should keep bleeding their farm.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Agreed, it's ridiculous to me that the Rags are trading 1sts for rentals in back to back years. They had a nice little fluke run last year but they are not legit contenders lol. Just throwing picks away to maybe do a tiny bit better in the playoffs. I think Devils easily dispatch them from the playoffs in round 1 if that's the matchup, Tank or no Tank.

The Rangers brass historically don't tend to manage their roster or cap space in the most efficient way. They're the group that handed out a bloated contract to Patrik Nemeth, of all players, and then promptly paid a 2nd+ to dump him the next season. They're also the group that gave a 7 year package to Trocheck while Chytil was developing under their noses into that 2C role.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Rangers sent conditional 2023 first- and 2024 fourth-round picks, forward Sammy Blais and prospect Hunter Skinner to the Blues for the prolific scoring winger, who’s set to be an unrestricted free agent after the season, and depth defenseman Niko Mikkola.

How does everyone value the trade? Reasonable assets given up?

A 1st for a skill winger is on the high side. Vanek, Gaborik, Zuccarello, Nyquist and Hall (to Boston) notably did not get the premium over the past 10 deadlines. Rangers fans can argue the other things in the trade to justify a valuation in that range, I guess.

These 1st round picks are not as valuable as fans make them about to be. Look at the track record.

Rental for 1st 2010-2019:

Player	Result	Player Taken in Draft Slot
Kovalchuk	Used in trade for Byfuglien	K. Hayes
Kaberle	Used to trade up for Biggs	Rakell
Gaustad	Used to trade up for Girgensons	Jankowski
Iginla	Retained	Klimchuk
Jagr	Retained	Dickinson
Miller + Ott	Used in trade for Kane + Bogosian	Roslovic
Franson + Santorelli	Used to trade down ultimately for Dermott, Bracco and Dzierkals	Konecny
Vermette	Retained	Merkley
Sekera	Retained	Gauthier
Ladd	Used to trade up for Stanley	Rubstov
Hanzal	Retained	Olivier-Joseph
Shattenkirk	Used in trade for B. Schenn	Frost
Eaves	Used to trade up for Oettinger	Jokiharju
Kane	Used in trade for Montour	Tracey
Nash	Used to trade up for Miller	Bernard-Docker
Stastny	Used to trade up for Bokk	Sandin
Hayes	Used in trade for Trouba	Heinola
Duchene	Retained	Thomson

In line with the percentages. The end of the list will look more like the top of the list eventually. Draft hype will wear off over time.

Vermette worked out well enough and Franson + Santorelli looks awful, but the vast majority of this type of trade has been and will continue to be insignificant in both directions.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I disagree. NJ is much too small, poor defensively, and weak at goaltender to be a serious contender. Things will be a lot tighter in the playoffs.

Rangers should keep bleeding their farm.

I don't view NJ as a serious contender either, but I don't think they'll have any issues with the Rags, UNLESS Igor goes God mode, which is possible but can happen against any team and them acquiring Tank is irrelevant to that

 

[dogbazinho]

I think it's a good trade for the Rangers personally. It's about the most I'd want to pay for a rental, but they didn't lose a decent prospect and lost a spare first.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I think it's a good trade for the Rangers personally. It's about the most I'd want to pay for a rental, but they didn't lose a decent prospect and lost a spare first.

I would say that it's a matter of opinion. There are riskier players with term out there, such as Boeser and Vrana, that are likely available for a similar price tag or less, but they usually come with a lot of warts and uncertainty in a way that Tarasenko does not and are buy-lows for a reason. Skjei, Trocheck, and Niederreiter all had significant issues attached to them when the Canes took fliers on them.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The Rangers don't need to worry about their prospect pool as much as other teams, because every year, they get at least one player who refuses to be traded/refuses to sign with anyone but New York.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The Rangers don't need to worry about their prospect pool as much as other teams, because every year, they get at least one player who refuses to be traded/refuses to sign with anyone but New York.

The same is very much true with the Bruins, but to a slightly lesser extent. There's a certain caché to playing in Manhattan or Boston that doesn't go away even during their down years.

 

[Brock Anton]

The Rangers don't need to worry about their prospect pool as much as other teams, because every year, they get at least one player who refuses to be traded/refuses to sign with anyone but New York.

Also, the core of their team is still pretty young, particularly on defense. No need to be holding onto D prospects when they have Fox, Trouba, Miller, Schneider and Lindgren.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Also, the core of their team is still pretty young, particularly on defense. No need to be holding onto D prospects when they have Fox, Trouba, Miller, Schneider and Lindgren.

Trouba increasingly looks like he may be a cap casualty in a few seasons, but yes, it's mostly true.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I would have spent more on a defender if I were the Rangers but whatever

 

[DaveG]

Also, the core of their team is still pretty young, particularly on defense. No need to be holding onto D prospects when they have Fox, Trouba, Miller, Schneider and Lindgren.

Not to mention Skinner isn't much of a prospect to begin with. Guy has been in the ECHL the vast majority of the season and it's not like Hartford's loaded to the extent that Charlotte was when Lorentz was that guy here.

 

[Lempo]

The CBA needs a clause to allow for greater then 50% retention for abject stupidity by a front office.

Who do you think demanded the 50% ceiling there in the first place.

 

[mikeyfan]

I believe a lot of people are shortchanging Tom Dundon and saying he is cheap because the FO won't sign certain players to contracts they felt the player should have signed in Carolina.

Dundon stated we would be a cap team when he became owner of the franchise starting at the 2017-2018 season here are our cap numbers
2017-2018 - $15,785,736 Below the Cap
2018-2019 - $16,292,322 Below the Cap (Dundon Arrives)
2019-2020 - $915,079 Above the Cap (LTIR)
2020-2021 - $2,017,118 Below the Cap
2021-2022 - $2,366,221 Above the Cap
2022-2023 - $2,429,417 Above the Cap and if we spend the full 10 plus million we have remaining we will be 12 million plus above the cap.

The Hurricanes are not afraid to spend money, They do try to spend it for players that fit within Rod's system and that may mean allowing certain players to leave or trade, but the return is about bettering the team, not counting pennies.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Who do you think demanded the 50% ceiling there in the first place.

A love for even numbers?

I believe a lot of people are shortchanging Tom Dundon and saying he is cheap because the FO won't sign certain players to contracts they felt the player should have signed in Carolina.

Dundon stated we would be a cap team when he became owner of the franchise starting at the 2017-2018 season here are our cap numbers
2017-2018 - $15,785,736 Below the Cap
2018-2019 - $16,292,322 Below the Cap (Dundon Arrives)
2019-2020 - $915,079 Above the Cap (LTIR)
2020-2021 - $2,017,118 Below the Cap
2021-2022 - $2,366,221 Above the Cap
2022-2023 - $2,429,417 Above the Cap and if we spend the full 10 plus million we have remaining we will be 12 million plus above the cap.

The Hurricanes are not afraid to spend money, They do try to spend it for players that fit within Rod's system and that may mean allowing certain players to leave or trade, but the return is about bettering the team, not counting pennies.

That 19-20 team was a 90 million dollar real money team. This year’s team is 78 million without any LTIR insurance

 

[mikeyfan]

A love for even numbers?


That 19-20 team was a 90 million dollar real money team. This year’s team is 78 million without any LTIR insurance

No this years team is 84,416,917 without long term insurance, plus 400,000 in retainage on Bear and $112,500 on bonuses.