All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XII - The UFA frenzy aftermath

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Derailed75

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Just a NHL fan making rounds on watching teams that interest me. Carolina is one of them. Looking to watch one of their next games (unfortunatly that's a few days out).

Has Necas been emerging or just off to a hot start? The few games I watched last year all these young kids are so solid and you would think it's just a matter of time before a couple take another step and push this team over the top.

Jarvis seems pretty interesting to me as well. Do you guys think he is a canadiate to take another step this season? Is Kotkaniemi playing up to the level of atleast an ok 2C?

Interested to see what Pacioretty brings to this team. I can't recall if he plays both RW or LW or just LW. Where do you guys expect he slots into the lineup? Who does he push down.

Any of your guys within the bottom 6 unique/notable?

What do you guys think your team identity is? What do you guys think other teams dread when playing Carolina?

I like to have solid 3 teams I root for during the playoffs and watch every one of their games. Carolina was close to making that list last year but I think they will this year.
On Necas all Canes fans hope he emerges. The last 2 years we have seen moments but nothing lasting. Last year he really feel off at the end so much so a lot of Canes fans were ready for him to go. The start of his season has been very very encouraging.

Jarvis is in his second season but if he continues may be one of the top skaters and scorers on the team.

KoKo may not get a lot of points this year do Habs fans will continue to call the OS and following contract a waste but let's be honest, he is centering one of the best if not the best line so far this season.

Also there's Andre Svechnikov who is tied for the lead league in goals
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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KoKo may not get a lot of points this year do Habs fans will continue to call the OS and following contract a waste but let's be honest, he is centering one of the best if not the best line so far this season.
Maybe. But maybe a lot of players centering Svech and Necas could do the same? Sure, it's all speculative, but so far KK has 2 secondary assists playing with two of the best offensive players on Carolina. Noesen has 1 primary and 3 secondary assists in less games.

That said, it's small sample size so I'll give it time.
 
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Derailed75

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Maybe. But maybe a lot of players centering Svech and Necas could do the same? Sure, it's all speculative, but so far KK has 2 secondary assists playing with two of the best offensive players on Carolina. Noesen has 1 primary and 3 secondary assists in less games.

That said, it's small sample size so I'll give it time.
Just because the NHL hasn't found a way to count stats for somethings doesn't mean KK is driving the plays. He does a lot of heavy lifting on keeping the puck in play and winning board battles. Assists be damned, personally I care less how many points he gets. If he continues to win faceoffs, board battles, and drive possession he will continue to be a big part of that line
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Just because the NHL hasn't found a way to count stats for somethings doesn't mean KK is driving the plays. He does a lot of heavy lifting on keeping the puck in play and winning board battles. Assists be damned, personally I care less how many points he gets. If he continues to win faceoffs, board battles, and drive possession he will continue to be a big part of that line
I get all that. My point is how effective is KK in this role vs. how good are Svech and Necas so that they make KK look so good.

Look, I'm rooting for him to succeed and I've been more impressed with him this year, but I'm still a bit skeptical.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Koko has pretty high individual numbers according to Naturalstattrick. Just finish a couple of these High danger chances he is creating. Or he needs to shoot to create rebounds which he is kinda low on.
 
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Vagrant

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He’s really mobile and I think for Rod the most important thing is he’s aggressively involved. He doesn’t sit back and watch, and jumps in both ways and at the same time hasn’t made many bad decisions. Hard to argue with it.
that's what really jumped out to me. I remember thinking when he first came up that he was the slow footed physical but willing hands of stone guy that most teams have lurking in the AHL and his skating surprised the hell out of me. he's borderline fleet footed.

as far as the thing about him looking a little jittery, it has been far less to me than coghlan. it took me back to gardiner to see the turnover he made during a reload where he tried to pass to staal last night who thought he was keeping it behind the net while the break out developed and just tossed it in his feet and created a turnover up the middle that almost ended up in our net. haven't seen anything like that from chatfield yet. the part that I wish we were still seeing from chatfield was how he was moving in the offensive zone and getting pucks through to add just a little extra wrinkle to his game in the first few games. that's probably the place where you'd say bear has the edge and if chatfield could just add that offensive simplicity to keep possessions alive, he'd be useful in that zone. I like his breakouts well enough.
 

Vagrant

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I continue to be underwhelmed with KK. I just don't see what everyone else is seeing and if the advanced stats back it up, I don't see that either. he's not going to have a long career in anyone's top 6 if he doesn't assert himself more offensively. there's something incredibly passive about his overall game that gives me pause. it's like he's just a step behind the offensive rhythm and that usually bodes not so well for projecting future output. he does have good compete and board work, but it's rare you see him make an individual play that just pops out. it's easy to say that somebody should shoot more and that would solve their problem, but maybe the problem is that he isn't seeing the places to shoot and would rather defer offensively to the more assertive players he's out there with and get raised with the tide. you have to be a driver sometimes, and he's never shown that side to me where he picks up the line and says play to my tempo. the fire isn't in his belly. compare it to say, jarvis for example since the ages make the comparison better.
 

bleedgreen

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I continue to be underwhelmed with KK. I just don't see what everyone else is seeing and if the advanced stats back it up, I don't see that either. he's not going to have a long career in anyone's top 6 if he doesn't assert himself more offensively. there's something incredibly passive about his overall game that gives me pause. it's like he's just a step behind the offensive rhythm and that usually bodes not so well for projecting future output. he does have good compete and board work, but it's rare you see him make an individual play that just pops out. it's easy to say that somebody should shoot more and that would solve their problem, but maybe the problem is that he isn't seeing the places to shoot and would rather defer offensively to the more assertive players he's out there with and get raised with the tide. you have to be a driver sometimes, and he's never shown that side to me where he picks up the line and says play to my tempo. the fire isn't in his belly. compare it to say, jarvis for example since the ages make the comparison better.
Shhhh. The group isn’t ready for it yet.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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this is very likely coincidental, but funny. in our losses, KK played 19:56 and 19:25. In our wins, 15:37, 16:28, 15:33, 18:56. 2 secondary assists on the year.

Svech and Necas have been the best producers so far this year, so it's likely that RBA wanted that line on the ice more during those games to try and come from behind (EDM) or break the tie (CGY)
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

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Koko has pretty high individual numbers according to Naturalstattrick. Just finish a couple of these High danger chances he is creating. Or he needs to shoot to create rebounds which he is kinda low on.

Just curious since I don't understand the individual numbers very well, which one's are you referring to?

And are you looking at counts? or rates? I took a quick look and counts show them being pretty high, rates show them not being very high.

He has more 5v5 TOI than any other forward according to NST, so counts will be misleading. On the flip side, it's so early in the season that rates can swing wildly with TOI being low, so I'm not sure how meaningful any of these numbers are yet.
 
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Nikishin Go Boom

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Just curious since I don't understand the individual numbers very well, which one's are you referring to?

And are you looking at counts? or rates? I took a quick look and counts show them being pretty high, rates show them not being very high.

He has more 5v5 TOI than any other forward according to NST, so counts will be misleading. On the flip side, it's so early in the season that rates can swing wildly with TOI being low, so I'm not sure how meaningful any of these numbers are yet.
iHDCF, iCF, iSCF, etc were all pretty good. The rates aren’t great due to his increased time but he still ranks higher than a fewer other better scorers in the categories.

His ixGF / 60 is 8th. He isn’t very far behind Svech or Necas. That does show Aho and Jarvis are well in front of Turbo (and most of everyone else) right now

The individual stats due show he is out there driving offense, he just needs to pot some (or create more rebounds).
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Cory Lav seeing the Kotkaniemi situation the same as some of us:


Kotkaniemi’s numbers won’t yet make Canadiens fans’ eyes bleed (just two assists), but he’s been the perfect match for Svechnikov and Necas.

While Trocheck was more likely to try and make something happen on his own — remember all the one-on-one “Trodrags” the center would attempt when entering the offensive zone? — Kotkaniemi plays a simpler game that complements the more dynamic Svechnikov and Necas.

The 22-year-old is quick to get the puck on his wingers’ sticks, wins battles in the corners and is responsible defensively.”
 

MadeUpName

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It is possible that Brind'Amour told Kotkaniemi to keep it simple at the beginning. Allow Svechnikov + Necas to run free in the offensive zone. Hard to argue with the results so far.

It's easier to point to what Kotkaniemi isn't doing than to pinpoint what he is. I don't think it is as simple as swapping Stepan or Stastny into that spot and getting identical or better results. Even Aho would be a different look.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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iHDCF, iCF, iSCF, etc were all pretty good. The rates aren’t great due to his increased time but he still ranks higher than a fewer other better scorers in the categories.

His ixGF / 60 is 8th. He isn’t very far behind Svech or Necas. That does show Aho and Jarvis are well in front of Turbo (and most of everyone else) right now

The individual stats due show he is out there driving offense, he just needs to pot some (or create more rebounds).

Thanks. I think you might be reading too much into small sample size numbers.

The RATES show he isn't ranked very high in each of those categories among Canes forwards: iCF/60: 10th (Staal 11th), iSCF/60: 9th(Staal 8th), iHDCF/60: 8th (Staal 7th). These small numbers can swing a lot and given he's getting the most 5v5 ice time, the counts are naturally going to be higher. It will be interesting to see how the rates settle out 20-30 games in as I think that will be more meaningful. Right now the count data shows Martinook and Noesen are some of our best driver's of offense right now.

To be clear, as long as the line keeps producing, there's no real complaint from me. I'm just not as sold that he's such a big piece of the line as other are, but hopefully I'll never find out because they keep producing.
 
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MadeUpName

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with the way svech and necas are playing, you could put a road cone between them and it wouldn't matter. it might even get a primary. sorry KK.
Put Aho between them and I don't think they produce as well as they have. Just my opinion. 3 guys can't all carry the puck at one time. Support can be just as valuable as a carry.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Thanks. I think you might be reading too much into small sample size numbers.

Am I though? Im not making claims that he is a great 2C or projecting point total or anything else that should have a larger sample size. Im just stating that he is at least out there driving some offense. He isn’t as pedestrian as others are making him out to be.
 
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Vagrant

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I think a lot of people are committed to the idea of the church of KK because they've encountered one too many smug habs fans they've had to vehemently defend against and because it would have been such a great story had the offer sheet been a smash hit. it just hasn't been to this point. trusting what the production says and what the eye test says, he's getting shoehorned into a role he isn't ready to take on out of force of will. that's something he at least has in common with Jordan.

there's players that you just want it for them so badly sometimes based on circumstances. he's not a scrub. he's a solid 30-40 point guy, but he's not more than that. not right now. and if he's not putting up points with the torrent that svechnikov and necas are pouring into the net, it doesn't bode well for when they eventually go cold.

just as an addendum, he shot 14.5% last year, which is unsustainable to league average. he shot the puck less than 90 times over 66 games. he has 10 shots in 6 games this year. if he's getting unlucky with measurables, how is it accounted for that even in a transcendent 20% shooting season he would score less than 20 goals? how can you be unlucky on 10 shots in 6 games? he has 243 games of NHL experience and 367 shots. these aren't outlier numbers.
 
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AhosDatsyukian

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Just a NHL fan making rounds on watching teams that interest me. Carolina is one of them. Looking to watch one of their next games (unfortunatly that's a few days out).

Has Necas been emerging or just off to a hot start? The few games I watched last year all these young kids are so solid and you would think it's just a matter of time before a couple take another step and push this team over the top.

Jarvis seems pretty interesting to me as well. Do you guys think he is a canadiate to take another step this season? Is Kotkaniemi playing up to the level of atleast an ok 2C?

Interested to see what Pacioretty brings to this team. I can't recall if he plays both RW or LW or just LW. Where do you guys expect he slots into the lineup? Who does he push down.

Any of your guys within the bottom 6 unique/notable?

What do you guys think your team identity is? What do you guys think other teams dread when playing Carolina?

I like to have solid 3 teams I root for during the playoffs and watch every one of their games. Carolina was close to making that list last year but I think they will this year.
Necas was really good 2 years ago but was terrible most of last year. His play seems to be tied quite a bit to confidence, which was shattered last year as his play slipped and he got demoted to the 4th line, but maybe there's more to it than that. Very early in the season but he looks like a different player this year. Extremely confident, knows when to slow the game down a bit versus before when he'd go full speed at all times and often lose the puck or make a stupid decision. He is defensively sound and doesn't really have holes in his game the way he is playing now. I highly doubt he keeps up his over ppg pace but can definitely see him getting 60-70 points. He did pace for 63 points 2 years ago and is fully capable of that over a full season. His ceiling is extremely high too but it's hard to take that next jump and I don't see it happening this year.

Jarvis could take another step but I think he's more likely to have a bit of a sophomore slump based on what we've seen so far. He's playing well out there but not really flashing like he did last year. That could change, the kid has all the tools. But we've seen both Svech and Necas have sophomore slumps here in recent years and I wouldn't be surprised if Jarvis is next in line.

Kotkaniemi isn't filling the stat sheet but he hasn't needed to; he's doing all the dirty work to set Necas and Svech up for success and I've been very happy with his paly so far this year. The way our team is constructed he's a perfectly capable 2C, and I think he'll continue to improve.

No idea what Rod will do but I suspect Patches will slot in on the first line with Aho and either Tervainen or Jarvis. Tough at times to split up Aho and Teravainen but Turbo has played well with Staal before and could help that 3rd line get rolling again. But I have no idea how it'll play out.

Bottom 6 -- Staal is a guy who would win multiple Selkes if it was truly best defensive forward and not "best defensive forward who also puts up a lot of points." He was hugely responsible for our dominance against Boston at home in the playoffs last year, completely shutting down Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak. He's not playing as well this year so far but I'm not too concerned, he's had some slow starts before. Other than him no one super notable in the bottom 6 in my opinion. Stastny and Stepan are solid vets to have around and are playing well there but they're aren't all that special at this point.

Identity: A hard working, grinding team who will never let their foot off the gas while still having plenty of speed and skill. Very defensively responsible with solid goaltending. There are questions of whether we have enough superstar power and elite scoring capabilities from individual players and I think that's where we've come up short in the playoffs lately, but we do have plenty of young guys with high upside who could take that next step. Svechnikov is an example with his play so far this year. If he played like this last playoffs I think we easily beat the Rags, possibly beat Tampa and would at least give Colorado a run for their money. But he was pretty bad most of the playoffs last year, at least compared to what he's capable of. I think teams dread the constant pressure and how difficult it can be to get chances against us.
 
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