All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XII - The UFA frenzy aftermath

[chaz4hockey]

Kane is supposed to put in his trade request tomorrow.

It’s believed his first choice is the rangers.

That would be a great swap, Strome out, Kane in but can the Rangers afford him?

 

[ndp]

Kane is supposed to put in his trade request tomorrow.

It’s believed his first choice is the rangers.

That sucks…

Hopefully Kreiders last season was a fluke, but either way them adding another PPG+ winger isn’t good for the rest of the Metro. Lots of hype around them and Kadri as well.

 

[MinJaBen]

That sucks…

Hopefully Kreiders last season was a fluke, but either way them adding another PPG+ winger isn’t good for the rest of the Metro. Lots of hype around them and Kadri as well.

Rangers need centers. Rangers sign a winger.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ranger's have $10.2M in cap space with 10 forwards under contract (including Blais), 6 defensemen, and 1 goalie. So they need at least 3 forwards and a back-up goalie.

Kane, without retention would take up $10.5M, so it only works with retention. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3rd team involved thus making the retention > 50%.

 

[Canes]

Rags just can't help themselves. Good luck fitting Kane even if he signs for a discount in his next contract when you're paying Trouba 8 million long term.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Rags just can't help themselves. Good luck fitting Kane even if he signs for a discount in his next contract when you're paying Trouba 8 million long term.

I really think they don't care about his next contract. They are likely going all in this year and will find ways to make the cap work in future years.

 

[moses malone 12]

While technically true, let's not overplay the significance of that in the bold:

1) The Checker's team that won it in 2018-2019 has basically one guy really in common with the Wolves team, and that's Poturalski, and he's not exactly a future. The rest of the leading scorers/top prospects are no longer in the org, or are with the Canes. After Poturalski, the leading scorers on that checker's team were:

Saarela, Necas, Carrick, Geekie, Bean, Gauthier, Kuokkanen, Schilkey, Roy, Patrick Brown, McKeown. Other than Necas, none of those guys are still in the organization.

2) The Wolves team was a veteran team. The leading scorers: Poturalsk (27 YO at start of season), Noesen(28), CJ Smith (26), Drury (21), Leivo (28), Gust (27), Keane (22).

Other than Drury and Keane (who is an RFA), and Kochetkov, those are all journeymen veterans who aren't even under contract with Carolina next season. And nobody wants to move Drury or Kochetkov.

I agree with the rest of what you are saying though, we have a lot of draft and prospect capital so now might be a good time to use it, just don't think bringing up the back to back calder cups means anything in regards to that.

agree. I'm guessing 70%-75% of draft capital doesn't translate to NHL talent. This is likely evident within 3 -4 years, thus trading some of these picks within first two years of drafting yields best return.

 

[Canes]

I really think they don't care about his next contract. They are likely going all in this year and will find ways to make the cap work in future years.

They will but it will probably come at a great cost. They better hope they win.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The big thing about these deep AHL clubs, though, is that they tend to generate a ton of good trade fodder. No doubt that the Canes will occasionally dip into that pool to actually acquire depth from other teams.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The big thing about these deep AHL clubs, though, is that they tend to generate a ton of good trade fodder. No doubt that the Canes will occasionally dip into that pool to actually acquire depth from other teams.

I agree when it comes to the Checker's AHL club that won it all, because it was driven mainly by prospects. We saw a bunch of those guys get involved in trades down the road (Roy, Gauthier, Kuokkanen, Bean, Ned, etc...)

The Wolves team was mainly a veteran team with a bunch of AHL/NHL tweeters that aren't going to generate much meaningful trade fodder.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I agree when it comes to the Checker's AHL club that won it all, because it was driven mainly by prospects. We saw a bunch of those guys get involved in trades down the road (Roy, Gauthier, Kuokkanen, Bean, Ned, etc...)

The Wolves team was mainly a veteran team with a bunch of AHL/NHL tweeters that aren't going to generate much meaningful trade fodder.

Not entirely. The top line was, but there were quite a few young guys on this year's team that made up the depth of the team, like Suzuki, Drury, Kochetkov, Makiniemi, Keane, and Rees. I can imagine a few of these names being a part of trades if they're not permanent lineup fixtures. There are also a bunch of Euros like Gunler, Ponomaryov, and Tieksola that are going to get their first AHL exposure this year that could also get included in trades in the next trade deadline.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not entirely. The top line was, but there were quite a few young guys on this year's team that made up the depth of the team, like Suzuki, Drury, Kochetkov, Makiniemi, Keane, and Rees. I can imagine a few of these names being a part of trades if they're not permanent lineup fixtures.

Your over-exaggerating the impact they had this season for most of these guys. Drury, Keane and Kochetkov (who was a late season arrival) all were key contributors but in the case of Drury and Kochetkov, guys that are not likely trade fodder right now.

Suzuki played only 34 games and had 14 points. I doubt he has much value and didn't provide much depth.
Makaniemi played only 14 games due to injury. Again, wasn't part of the "depth" of the team.
Rees I'll give you, but he was underwhelming.

Look, I'm not saying that those guys won't improve and be valuable down the road either as a player with Carolina or in a trade, but they didn't provide much to this year's Wolves. That's totally different than the 18-19 checkers, where the top end and the depth was almost all prospects.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Your over-exaggerating the impact they had this season for most of these guys. Drury, Keane and Kochetkov (who was a late season arrival) all were key contributors but in the case of Drury and Kochetkov, guys that are not likely trade fodder right now.

Suzuki played only 34 games and had 14 points. I doubt he has much value and didn't provide much depth.
Makaniemi played only 14 games due to injury. Again, wasn't part of the "depth" of the team.
Rees I'll give you, but he was underwhelming.

Look, I'm not saying that those guys won't improve and be valuable down the road either as a player with Carolina or in a trade, but they didn't provide much to this year's Wolves. That's totally different than the 18-19 checkers, where the top end and the depth was almost all prospects.

That's all true, however, I was mainly talking about Drury and Kochetkov, especially because of the uncertainty surrounding Suzuki's eye injury. We're not entirely sure yet if either Drury or Kochetkov are truly NHL-ready, and in the face of a top-6 upgrade, it may be possible to have either of them in a trade package. The 4C role that Drury would occupy could be done by cheap veterans instead.

 

[Stickpucker]

Agree with this, but looking around the league, the vast majority of teams that are contending for the Cup are doing so with almost entirely homegrown talent at the top, not making big splashy trades or signings for it. Of course there are a few exceptions (Panarin, Tavares although that’s not looking great right now), but the highly paid players on the Tampas and Colorados of the world are primarily homegrown (Stamkos/Point/Hedman/Kuch/Vasy/Palat/etc., Mackinnon/Landy/Raantanen/Makar/etc.)

I think your point is a salient one, but maybe one that’s more relevant when it comes time to pay Aho, Slavin, and Teravainen and we’re deciding whether or not to keep them. Another big question is whether the stars we have plus the up and comers (Svech, Necas, Jarvis, KK) end up turning into the type of high-end group that matches these contenders.

Colorado, TB, and Pitts....most of the last cup winners handed out picks like candy to add guys to surround their core. They identified the right supporting cast and paid market price to get them.

Just last year Colorado acquired...Kadri, Toews, Lehkonen, Nichuskin, Manson and probably more I'm forgetting who were all instrumental in their cup run.

Do we want to be one of those teams or more in the SJ, Wsh, Stl, Boston tier?

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Colorado, TB, and Pitts....most of the last cup winners handed out picks like candy to add guys to surround their core. They identified the right supporting cast and paid market price to get them.

Just last year Colorado acquired...Kadri, Toews, Lehkonen, Nichuskin, Manson and probably more I'm forgetting who were all instrumental in their cup run.

Do we want to be one of those teams or more in the SJ, Wsh, Stl, Boston tier?

One underrated aspect of Tampa is that a lot of their trades involve trading high picks and getting lower picks back. That's a big reason why they still have a decent amount of draft selections even after major blockbuster trades. Take the Hagel deal, for example. They did deal 2 1st rounders in that deal, but they also got 2 4th rounders in return. The Goodrow deal had them trading a 1st, but they also received a 3rd back. Colorado also hadn't really mortgaged a lot of futures until just this year, and Lehkonen was meant to be a more medium-term piece.

 

[Stickpucker]

JT Miller only makes 5 m this year. I'd pony up and try to resign him...he has the perfect playoff game and I don't want to see JK at 2c. He can have 3c when Jordos contract ends.

Suzuki + 23 1st to get the convo started.

Svech JT Jarvis
Nachos Aho TT
Poolparty Staal Fast
Martinook JK Drury

That's an offense with some pop.

Now just find a pp qb and we're a real contender.

One underrated aspect of Tampa is that a lot of their trades involve trading high picks and getting lower picks back. That's a big reason why they still have a decent amount of draft selections even after major blockbuster trades. Take the Hagel deal, for example. They did deal 2 1st rounders in that deal, but they also got 2 4th rounders in return. The Goodrow deal had them trading a 1st, but they also received a 3rd back. Colorado also hadn't really mortgaged a lot of futures until just this year.

So Colorado couldn't get out of the 2nd round until they spent a ton of futures to fill holes in their roster then they won the cup. Got it.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

So Colorado couldn't get out of the 2nd round until they spent a ton of futures to fill holes in their roster then they won the cup. Got it.

That's one angle to look at it. Another way to look at it is that Colorado finally decided that it was "their time" after looking at how they were performing compared to the rest of the league. If Colorado had timed their deadline adds poorly, they very well could've had a Florida or Columbus situation (though the timing for both was severely aggravated by decades of roster mismanagements by prior Florida regimes and the pending Panarin/Bobrovsky UFA departures, respectively).

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

JT Miller only makes 5 m this year. I'd pony up and try to resign him...he has the perfect playoff game and I don't want to see JK at 2c. He can have 3c when Jordos contract ends.

Suzuki + 23 1st to get the convo started.

Svech JT Jarvis
Nachos Aho TT
Poolparty Staal Fast
Martinook JK Drury

That's an offense with some pop.

Now just find a pp qb and we're a real contender.



So Colorado couldn't get out of the 2nd round until they spent a ton of futures to fill holes in their roster then they won the cup. Got it.

They got out the 2nd round because 2 guys had ridiculous out of the blue years

 

[Unsustainable]

Giroux and Copp, trade for Petry and trade Necas and Gardiner for Chychrun, Skjei to Edmonton for 1st

Svech - Aho - Turbo
Copp - Giroux - Jarvis
Drury - Staal - Fast
Marty - KK - ???

Slavin - Petry
Chychrun - Pesce
???? - Bear/Chatfield

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Copp is going to cost too much for one good season and a ton of injury history.

Skjei isn’t going anywhere

 

[Unsustainable]

So we will have 1 of Klingberg, Burns or Petry likely.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

That's all true, however, I was mainly talking about Drury and Kochetkov, especially because of the uncertainty surrounding Suzuki's eye injury. We're not entirely sure yet if either Drury or Kochetkov are truly NHL-ready, and in the face of a top-6 upgrade, it may be possible to have either of them in a trade package. The 4C role that Drury would occupy could be done by cheap veterans instead.

Yeah, that makes sense. My whole point started with the premise that back to back AHL teams gives us plenty of tradeable assets. As I said, the Checkers certainly did have a bunch as that was a team with prospects up and down the line-up, but none of those guys are available for trades or promotions any longer. I remember Vegas, who shared the Wolves AHL team in 18/19 saying how Roy was killing them in the playoffs on the dot and with his physical play, so they went after him.

The Wolves championship team is totally different. It had a couple prospects playing key roles, like the 3 I mentioned, but the guys driving that team were mainly vets and not really assets in a trade.

Suzuki's injury certainly played a role, as did Makiniemi's. Suzuki probably still has some trade value due to where he was drafted so wouldn't surprise me to see him in a deal.

 

[SlavinAway]

Yeah, that makes sense. My whole point started with the premise that back to back AHL teams gives us plenty of tradeable assets. As I said, the Checkers certainly did have a bunch as that was a team with prospects up and down the line-up, but none of those guys are available for trades or promotions any longer. I remember Vegas, who shared the Wolves AHL team in 18/19 saying how Roy was killing them in the playoffs on the dot and with his physical play, so they went after him.

The Wolves championship team is totally different. It had a couple prospects playing key roles, like the 3 I mentioned, but the guys driving that team were mainly vets and not really assets in a trade.

Suzuki's injury certainly played a role, as did Makiniemi's. Suzuki probably still has some trade value due to where he was drafted so wouldn't surprise me to see him in a deal.

Even if they didn't play key roles they now have championship pedigree; teams pay big time for that sort of thing!

 

[bleedgreen]

I think we’re getting Petry, he’s the most distressed asset that would probably come the cheapest.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Colorado, TB, and Pitts....most of the last cup winners handed out picks like candy to add guys to surround their core. They identified the right supporting cast and paid market price to get them.

Just last year Colorado acquired...Kadri, Toews, Lehkonen, Nichuskin, Manson and probably more I'm forgetting who were all instrumental in their cup run.

Do we want to be one of those teams or more in the SJ, Wsh, Stl, Boston tier?

Just to clarify,
Kadri was acquired in 2019 in a trade for Barrie and Kerfoot.
Nichushkin was acquired in 2019 after Dallas bought him out and Colorado signed him.
Toews was acquired in 2020 for 2 2nd round picks.

Lehkonen (prospect and 2024 2nd round pick) and Manson (prospect and a 2023 2nd round pick) were the ones that were acquired this past year at the deadline.

Cogliano was also acquired at the deadline for a 2024 5th round pick.

Aube-Kubel was claimed off waivers.

EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with your point about using picks/prospects to bolster the line-up, just clarifying the comment about those in bold.