All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread pt 8- wait we're spending HOW MUCH?

[tarheelhockey]

I mean like, isn't the reporter really milking for a reportable comment or what? I don't like these "speak to me the words I want and ask for, you trained monkey" interview questions.

I dunno... “I’d love to get this deal done soon so I can be with my teammates for training camp, but it’s out of my hands just now” is a pretty generic answer in this situation.

“Ehhhhhh I’m not ready to publicly bash the city and organization just yet” isn’t quite what you expect to hear.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The book on Laine is that he doesn't bring much to the game beyond his goal scoring ability, right? It's been just a little over a year since the team jettisoned that type of player, despite having the cap space and asset depth to keep him as an own-rental. Add in the high acquisition cost here and I'm not sure they'd be interested in Laine.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Hamilton + Nino + 1st?

This was my first thought. Conditional first being they can choose between the better of the two. Highly doubtful because of his style of play and how Roddie wants his team to play.

 

[Lempo]

I dunno... “I’d love to get this deal done soon so I can be with my teammates for training camp, but it’s out of my hands just now” is a pretty generic answer in this situation.

“Ehhhhhh I’m not ready to publicly bash the city and organization just yet” isn’t quite what you expect to hear.

Yes, the pre-scripted answer that the pre-scripted question was tailor-made to get. Why do you even feel you need to waste the time of the interviewee for that.

And, why should he help out Jets like that. "I'm sure in the end we'll get a contract on their accepted terms." Yeah **** that.

"I'll play for the ****ing Edmonton if they got my money for me!"

 

[Bunch of Jurcos]

The book on Laine is that he doesn't bring much to the game beyond his goal scoring ability, right? It's been just a little over a year since the team jettisoned that type of player, despite having the cap space and asset depth to keep him as an own-rental. Add in the high acquisition cost here and I'm not sure they'd be interested in Laine.

I think you are right in your assessment. I believe that if anyone could get Laine to work harder it would be HCRB. His talent is undeniable and I would really enjoy have three bonafide stars on our top line like Boston does. If they get Laine to buy in to "the Canes way" then like @tarheelhockey said we're set for a decade. Unfortunately the if part is probably too large of a risk and it doesn't happen but man would it be exciting and continue to put butts in seats.

 

[Lempo]

There is an alternative school saying that PoMo insists on and on and on playing Laine with Little with whom he got zero chemistry. He hasn't been in a place to utilize his elite talent like he possibly would have been in some other team with another coach. And now the "poor" numbers of last season, only 30 goals at 20 years old, are thrown at him in the contract negotiations and he's possibly asked to do some "show me" crap before a good contract and that's funny as the guy is 6th in scoring during the whole period he has been in the league.

What I'm saying is that contrary to certain claims he has the usual three dimensions: tallness, width and girth.

 

[Lempo]

He's been playing his off wing most of the time, btw, because of PoMo. He came in as LW.

 

[emptyNedder]

If they get Laine to buy in to "the Canes way" then like @tarheelhockey said we're set for a decade.

Half a decade. With Aho/Teravainen/Pesce all UFAs in 2024 things could change quickly.

Also, amidst all the Aho/Waddell love, an important statement went almost unnoticed. DW said the offer sheet was no big deal because the Canes thought Aho was worth "$8 million." Since we know the Canes wanted to sign him for 8 years I can see Aho feeling undervalued by the team.

 

[HisIceness]

Will be interesting to see what happens. Don't know why it was deleted, but here is the first tweet confirming he signed. I didn't get the follow-up apparently.
View attachment 250079

We have a Florida kid in the organization. Somewhere there is a Florida man joke in here.

 

[HisIceness]

I know we’re unlikely to swing such a big, salary heavy deal, and Laine is maybe not the player we’d pick in a fantasy scenario. But a Laine-Aho-Svech line could elevate this team for a decade.

This is one of those opportunities.

I kind of got the feeling even when he was drafted by Winnipeg he didn't really want to play there but he was the consenus #2 pick the whole time so it was kind of a wash for him I suppose. Not really surprising he isn't giving the "I really want to stay here and I am committed to being with this team" statement that everyone else seems to make when they reach free agency.

Also I see this and am thankful we got the Aho situation taken care of early, thanks Montreal!

 

[Lempo]

I kind of got the feeling even when he was drafted by Winnipeg he didn't really want to play there but he was the consenus #2 pick the whole time so it was kind of a wash for him I suppose. Not really surprising he isn't giving the "I really want to stay here and I am committed to being with this team" statement that everyone else seems to make when they reach free agency.

Also I see this and am thankful we got the Aho situation taken care of early, thanks Montreal!

I don't know, my people have had extremely warm relationship to Winnipeg courtesy of Teemu's escapades back in the day. It was like coming home for Laine really. If there is souring, it happened later on.

 

[Canes]

I would love Laine on this team, defensive worts and all... he's everything this team needs on the powerplay, RH sniper who can pot 40-50 goals. He's nowhere near as lost as Skinner in his own end, and he's obviously an even better goal scorer. However, given what we would have to give up, I'm not sure if he would make us a better team in both the short and long term.

 

[cptjeff]

I would love Laine on this team, defensive worts and all... he's everything this team needs on the powerplay, RH sniper who can pot 40-50 goals. He's nowhere near as lost as Skinner in his own end, and he's obviously an even better goal scorer. However, given what we would have to give up, I'm not sure if he would make us a better team in both the short and long term.

He's a guy you can build around. Trouble is, we already built a cap team around a different Finn. It would require significant changes to fit Laine in- either you ship out a different high end guy or you leave significant weaknesses in your lineup. I don't want to make Toronto's mistakes- locked into having a team with major weaknesses for a decade because they spend too much on the top end guys.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't know, my people have had extremely warm relationship to Winnipeg courtesy of Teemu's escapades back in the day. It was like coming home for Laine really. If there is souring, it happened later on.

I’m sure having literally nothing to do other than rewatch a half-career of 1990s highlights starts to lose its luster around Day #752 on a frozen hellscape.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I’m sure having literally nothing to do other than rewatch a half-career of 1990s highlights starts to lose its luster around Day #752 on a frozen hellscape.

Umm, that's kind of what Finns do though, right?

 

[Lempo]

Umm, that's kind of what Finns do though, right?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

DW said the offer sheet was no big deal because the Canes thought Aho was worth "$8 million." Since we know the Canes wanted to sign him for 8 years I can see Aho feeling undervalued by the team.

I can’t. He’s a smart kid, with a father that is a GM in Finland, and sees that a bunch of RFAs are still unsigned. It’s a business and I bet he recognizes that.

 

[Lempo]

Also, amidst all the Aho/Waddell love, an important statement went almost unnoticed. DW said the offer sheet was no big deal because the Canes thought Aho was worth "$8 million." Since we know the Canes wanted to sign him for 8 years I can see Aho feeling undervalued by the team.

I can’t. He’s a smart kid, with a father that is a GM in Finland, and sees that a bunch of RFAs are still unsigned. It’s a business and I bet he recognizes that.

What even was the actual quote by Waddell? The boy signed for $8.454M, that's close enough to "8" in usual parlance.

The sum Aho finally signed for was, as reported, from right between the opening bids of 7.5M (x 8) and 9.5 (x 5). I can easily see why a GM would in this situation say afterwards that 8M, a sum right in between their opener bid 7.5M and the final sum 8.5M was what they were thinking.

"Yeah... I think we can live with it" isn't extremely creditable statement when they were pretty much high-fiving instantly after hearing the sum d'offre hostile and it was already in July reported as being among the best contracts in the league.

 

[Aurinko]

He's a guy you can build around. Trouble is, we already built a cap team around a different Finn. It would require significant changes to fit Laine in- either you ship out a different high end guy or you leave significant weaknesses in your lineup. I don't want to make Toronto's mistakes- locked into having a team with major weaknesses for a decade because they spend too much on the top end guys.

I would say that Aho @8,5M$ > Matthews @11,6M$ , even without the injuries. And I'm a huge fan of the extremely solid defensive style of game that Matthews can provide.

Canes have picked up good players all around, and that depth also brings insurance against top player injuries.

 

[Chrispy]

Hard to guess what that would even look like due to salary constraints.

Faulk + Niederreiter + Necas?
Hamilton + Nino + 1st?
Pesce + Reimer + multiple picks/prospects?

I'd guess the Canes would say "you have to take an Aho deal" which may be amenable to Laine.

I doubt Winnipeg bites at one of those, even now with the difficulty in the negotiation. I'm guessing they would be firm on wanting Svechnikov back, which would be a hard no.

Maybe Necas would be suitable so the 1st package could work. But I think it's more likely they would want Pesce + Necas than either Faulk (1 year) or Hamilton (2 years) + Necas, which is again a hard no for me.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

After trading de Hann, I just can't see the Canes moving Faulk, Hamilton or Pesce, even if it means getting a top forward back. The ability to defend, play aggressively in the neutral zone, and move the puck up the ice quickly is critical to the fast pace and aggressive forecheck game the Canes play. If the team can't ice a top 4 that does that well, they will struggle, particularly with our goaltending situation.

Toronto, with all the firepower in the world has been trying desperately to fix their defense and while they are fun to watch, we don't want to create a hole like that.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I know we’re unlikely to swing such a big, salary heavy deal, and Laine is maybe not the player we’d pick in a fantasy scenario. But a Laine-Aho-Svech line could elevate this team for a decade.

This is one of those opportunities.

You're talking about a $30+ million line. I don't think you can do that in a cap world. IMO, a team can survive with it's top two players making 25 percent of the cap, but three players making 37.5 percent is basically unworkable, as the Maple Leafs are finding out (Matthews, Tavares, Nylander currently make up 36.2 percent of the Leafs cap at $29.6 million total salary).

IMO, the Canes traded Skinner because they decided that the two players they were going to pay 25 percent of their cap for were Aho and Svech. If they are going to pursue another 12.5 percent player (i.e. 23 current NHL contracts took up 12.5 percent or more of their team's cap at the time they were signed), they have to trade one away in the deal.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

You're talking about a $30+ million line. I don't think you can do that in a cap world. IMO, a team can survive with it's top two players making 25 percent of the cap, but three players making 37.5 percent is basically unworkable, as the Maple Leafs are finding out (Matthews, Tavares, Nylander currently make up 36.2 percent of the Leafs cap at $29.6 million total salary).

IMO, the Canes traded Skinner because they decided that the two players they were going to pay 25 percent of their cap for were Aho and Svech. If they are going to pursue another 12.5 percent player (i.e. 23 current NHL contracts took up 12.5 percent or more of their team's cap at the time they were signed), they have to trade one away in the deal.

Well we got our "Matthews" locked in at $8.5m per (Aho) compared to $11.6m for Toronto, we got our "Nylander" locked in at $5.4m (Teravainen) compared to $6.9m for Toronto, and our "Marner" (Svech) is 2 years away from payday. That's already $4.6m less for our group of studs vs. theirs. Let's say we did trade for Laine, and he came in at $9.5m. That's another $1.5m less than Tavares, for a total of $6.1m less as a group.

Matthews minus Aho = $3.1m
Nylander minus TT = $1.5m
Tavares minus Laine = $1.5m
Marner minus Svech = ??? (let's call it a wash, knowing full well that if it is actually a wash, Svech is probably a 40 goal scorer)

Total: $6.1m (or 8% of the cap)

Now I don't really want Laine for other reasons (I think him and RBA would clash so badly), but comparing our potential situation to Toronto is to ignore what Toronto did to put themselves in this position (talking to the media about keeping all 4, overpaying everyone ever so slightly, etc.) It also ignores what we've done very well - getting good value on our deals. No point in having those excellent deals if you aren't leveraging them to have room for great talent.

To note: I fully recognize your caution regarding committing too much to high end talent and leaving yourself with little flexibility; I agree with the point and it's something to consistently keep an eye on. But because we've done so well with our contract values, we are for that very reason decidedly not in the same situation Toronto is in if we choose to add another high-end talent.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

We've got a nicely balanced team that's cost-controlled, young, and full of players that are likely to improve over the next few years.

Laine will be a great player for somebody, but it don't think it will, or should, be us.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

We've got a nicely balanced team that's cost-controlled, young, and full of players that are likely to improve over the next few years.

Laine will be a great player for somebody, but it don't think it will, or should, be us.

I agree - but not on the principle that we shouldn't add another stud, high talent player because it would cost too much.

I agree because I think if we can do that one more time, making that bet on Laine might not be the best option.