All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Part 5: The Jerk Store Called - It's Time to Restock

[Unsustainable]

I guess you are assuming Williams retires?

Yeah, I think so

 

[GoldiFox]

The Canes have a roster problem.

They simultaneously need to add veteran talent and also have opportunities available for their half a dozen skilled prospects which comprise the best team in the AHL by a mile. All on a team with a coach who gives every extra minute he has to Brock McGinn.

It hurts my brain to think about. It is challenging to figure out where Martin Necas even fits in if the team 1) wants to improve and 2) Williams returns. Much less where the plug flow of Saarela, Kuokkanen, Gauthier, Geekie, Mattheos, Roy, Loustarinen, etc. eventually fits.

 

[Unsustainable]

The Canes have a roster problem.

They simultaneously need to add veteran talent and also have opportunities available for their half a dozen skilled prospects which comprise the best team in the AHL by a mile. All on a team with a coach who gives every extra minute he has to Brock McGinn.

It hurts my brain to think about. It is challenging to figure out where Martin Necas even fits in if the team 1) wants to improve and 2) Williams returns. Much less where the plug flow of Saarela, Kuokkanen, Gauthier, Geekie, Mattheos, Roy, Loustarinen, etc. eventually fits.

Those who can pass through waivers stick with Charlotte and win multiple cups, those who can’t fit with either get traded.

 

[Svechhammer]

The Canes have a roster problem.

They simultaneously need to add veteran talent and also have opportunities available for their half a dozen skilled prospects which comprise the best team in the AHL by a mile. All on a team with a coach who gives every extra minute he has to Brock McGinn.

It hurts my brain to think about. It is challenging to figure out where Martin Necas even fits in if the team 1) wants to improve and 2) Williams returns. Much less where the plug flow of Saarela, Kuokkanen, Gauthier, Geekie, Mattheos, Roy, Loustarinen, etc. eventually fits.

Having too much talent and not enough spots is, on second look, a nice problem to have

 

[MinJaBen]

The Canes have a roster problem.

They simultaneously need to add veteran talent and also have opportunities available for their half a dozen skilled prospects which comprise the best team in the AHL by a mile. All on a team with a coach who gives every extra minute he has to Brock McGinn.

It hurts my brain to think about. It is challenging to figure out where Martin Necas even fits in if the team 1) wants to improve and 2) Williams returns. Much less where the plug flow of Saarela, Kuokkanen, Gauthier, Geekie, Mattheos, Roy, Loustarinen, etc. eventually fits.

Do we? We need talent, but is there a reason we need "veteran talent"?

 

[Canes]

If Williams retired and we absolutely "needed" a veteran, I hope we would take a hard look at Pavelski. He's getting old and isn't a center anymore but he would be a perfect RH shot forward to replace Williams.

But I'm not sure Pavelski would consider us, or that we would be anywhere close to his best offer, and I'm not sure if Williams doesn't come back for another year.

Either way I'm fine with promoting more Checkers. If we didn't make the ECF this year and instead "only" made the playoffs, I don't think anyone would feel the pressure to go out and sign more UFAs or make big trades since we're only at the beginning of our competitive window.

 

[DaveG]

Do we? We need talent, but is there a reason we need "veteran talent"?

Yeah I'm not sure it has to be veteran talent, but it definitely needs to be the right personality type. Martinook was a perfect example this past year after having been mentored the prior few years from one of the games best leader personalities in Shane Doan. He's all of 26. Usually those types are veterans when you can get them, but they don't have to be.

 

[Chrispy]

If Williams retired and we absolutely "needed" a veteran, I hope we would take a hard look at Pavelski. He's getting old and isn't a center anymore but he would be a perfect RH shot forward to replace Williams.

But I'm not sure Pavelski would consider us, or that we would be anywhere close to his best offer, and I'm not sure if Williams doesn't come back for another year.

Either way I'm fine with promoting more Checkers. If we didn't make the ECF this year and instead "only" made the playoffs, I don't think anyone would feel the pressure to go out and sign more UFAs or make big trades since we're only at the beginning of our competitive window.

Makes sense in theory, but I think it's about equal odds for either Williams or Pavelski to play in a different jersey next year. Much more likely the Canes keep Williams.

 

[emptyNedder]

since we're only at the beginning of our competitive window.

For me this is key. The window is at least the next five years--TT's and Pesce's contract.

Martinook was a perfect example this past year after having been mentored the prior few years from one of the games best leader personalities in Shane Doan. He's all of 26. Usually those types are veterans when you can get them, but they don't have to be.

Staal, Martinook, de Haan, Niederreiter. Not old, but not a bad group of veterans. That's even without Williams and Faulk.

 

[AD Skinner]

I wont be shocked if Williams retires, but I would be a little surprised. I think he comes back on a one year deal.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

We need a 2C
Pie in the sky: Duchene- scorer, PP contributor, top 5 FO winner, etc. Just going to be too dang expensive
Ideally: Pavelski-veteran, a good PP contributor, solid 2 way guy, wins draws, RH, 2-3 year deal which will be the time svech, necas, & company need raises
#2 option: Karlsson- young but experienced, great 2 way guy, documented plus in the locker room, goal scorer
Realistic: Haula / Eakin
Frustrating option: Checker
Meh option: Brassard

Top 6 winger:
Pie in the Sky: Panarin: scorer, PP contributor, etc. Just going to be too dang expensive
Ideally: Nylander- RH, capable center, young, signed long term, decent term, offensive driver
#2 option: Lee- another lefty, C capable, draws arent good. veteran plays our style, capable of 40 goals. Going to be expensive though and the back of end of his contract will be scary.
#3 option: Kapanen- RH, speed, plenty of potential, Finnish
Realistic: Necas
Frustrating option: Checker not named Necas or McGinn
Meh options: Simmonds, Ferland, Johansson
Scares me because of a career year right before they go UFA: Connelly, Nyquist.

 

[GoldiFox]

Do we? We need talent, but is there a reason we need "veteran talent"?

I'd label a "veteran talent" as anyone closer to UFA than an ELC. Functionally I'd define it as someone who can come help leadership push Rod's message rather than needing to be extensively developed themselves. Martinook is a good example despite being younger. I don't mean the Canes have to bring in a 34 year old Pavelski.

Canes already had one of the youngest teams in the NHL last year and we are talking about them losing 2-3 of their oldest players (Ferland + McE + possibly Williams/Faulk) and adding greenhorns (Necas, Bean, Nedeljkovic). I do believe there is a need to bring in a couple guys with experience.

 

[Brock Anton]

Throw 3-years, $28.5M at Pavelski and force him to make a decision as I see no way San Jose can even think to match that with Meier and Labanc hitting RFA as well. That'd 100% be my target if we had any interest in a big name FA (which I highly doubt).

 

[MinJaBen]

Throw 3-years, $28.5M at Pavelski and force him to make a decision as I see no way San Jose can even think to match that with Meier and Labanc hitting RFA as well. That'd 100% be my target if we had any interest in a big name FA (which I highly doubt).

You'd pay JoePa >$9M per season?!? I LOVE the guy, but no way I pay him that.

 

[Brock Anton]

You'd pay JoePa >$9M per season?!? I LOVE the guy, but no way I pay him that.

Ideally? No. But in a world where Jeff Skinner gets $9 million, you're almost certainly paying $9M+ for any/all big name free agents this summer.

I mean, Kevin Hayes is reportedly looking for $7M+ ffs ... and he'll probably get it.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I guess you are assuming Williams retires?

Or we kill him.

 

[Tryamw]

Or we kill him.

Why not both?

 

[Ole Gil]

It doesn't seem like the salary cap is increasing enough for these contracts to work out. There just aren't enough dollars to pay everybody in a world where Skinner is a 9 million a year player, I don't think. If I'm a free agent, I'm signing as soon as I can, because those dollars are going to go fast, and someone who is worth 7 milliion based on Skinner's salary is going to end up with 4.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

You'd pay JoePa >$9M per season?!? I LOVE the guy, but no way I pay him that.

Exactly anything 7 million will put SJ in a bind. definitely not 28 million over 3 years. I would do 2 years, 15.5 million or, if 3 years is required, 3 years 20 million.

 

[Brock Anton]

San Jose will match anything close to $7 million, bind or not. You're going to have to go north of $8M to even entice him to leave. If he makes it to July 1, he's going to get paid. Probably not $9.5M, but I'd be stunned if he gets less than $8.25-8.5M.

 

[Svechhammer]

Ideally? No. But in a world where Jeff Skinner gets $9 million, you're almost certainly paying $9M+ for any/all big name free agents this summer.

I mean, Kevin Hayes is reportedly looking for $7M+ ffs ... and he'll probably get it.

Meh, we'll see what happens this offseason. UFAs tend to get massively overpaid anyway, but one contract does not a trend make. We've seen this "holy crap that is going to break the charts" kind of deal before, and it rarely plays out like that.

 

[Brock Anton]

Meh, we'll see what happens this offseason. UFAs tend to get massively overpaid anyway, but one contract does not a trend make. We've seen this "holy crap that is going to break the charts" kind of deal before, and it rarely plays out like that.

Very true, but Skinner's deal seems a little too ridiculous to not set a new market. Every agent of a player of similar stature is going to point to that contract as a base. Look at Panarin for example, is he a $10M+ player? Absolutely not, but when Skinner gets $9M, how can you not claim he shouldn't make more than him? Ditto for Duchene, and he's got the positional bonus of being a center.

That's not even taking into account expiring RFA's like Marner, Rantanen, Aho, Point, Tkachuk etc. who's agents are all going to be looking at that Skinner contract with great interest.

 

[Svechhammer]

Very true, but Skinner's deal seems a little too ridiculous to not set a new market. Every agent of a player of similar stature is going to point to that contract as a base. Look at Panarin for example, is he a $10M+ player?

And every GM is going to turn back to those players and say "we're not Buffalo, we're not overpaying you to stay and play for a terrible team, you'll take what the normal market will bear"

The Skinner deal is ridiculous. Its so ridiculous that everyone immediately realized what a mistake they made and just laughed at their incompetence. I mean really, if one bad contract set trends, there's no way in hell we have Slavin, Pesce, or TT signed to the deals we do. No way at all.

 

[DaveG]

Scares me because of a career year right before they go UFA: Connelly, Nyquist.

Brett Connolly I'm with you on, but Nyquist? He's had a better season albeit one that was injury shortened. He was pacing for 65-70 points in I want to say 2014 over the course of a full season, and even if 60 is high for him point wise he's floated around in the 45+ point range his entire career. More valuable for us he's been a very consistent PP producer throughout the course of his career. If he goes north of 6.5m per I'd probably back away but anything in that 5-6.5 range for 4-5 years he'd be worth it.

Ideally I'd like to us bring in either him or Eberle to add some more skill to our top 6 and roll something like this (assuming we can't snag Duchene):

Nino - Aho - Nyquist/Eberle
Svech - Staal - Turbo
Necas - Wallmark - Williams
Foegele - Martinook - McGinn

I'd still like to upgrade the 2 or 3 hole down the middle and Necas making that move would help there a LOT but I would think that lineup is poised to not just make the playoffs again but make some noise again with the continued development of the kids, adding a top 6 wing and PP help. That's a team that's easily capable of a run to the conference finals again, though I'd also say a good #2/very high end #3 away from being a team I'd be looking at and saying "yeah they could win it all next year".

 

[A Star is Burns]

I like Pavelski, but anyone that wants to hand him some of those contracts is out of their damn minds. Thankfully, I doubt it comes to that. I think we'll find one mid-level upgrade like we've discussed, I do think Williams comes back for at least one more year, and then we let rookies fall where they may.