All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Part 5: The Jerk Store Called - It's Time to Restock

[Chrispy]

That's probably a reflection of the entire team though, no?

Pre-All Star: 139G in 50 games = 2.78 G/GP
Post-All Star: 104G in 32 games = 3.25 G/GP

I'm sure that helped but Jordan went from a 31 point pace pre concussion to a 61 point pace post concussion. The team was playing better before Jordan got back, but Jordan took his offensive game to level I don't think we've seen before in Raleigh when he returned.

 

[GoldiFox]

Jordan is like Slavin. When the team is playing well and scoring his points will rise. He's a key cog on a rising tide. Hoping for an extra offensive gear from Staal will leave you disappointed IMO. Fans have had that hope every year since he was drafted. He has some of the worst hands in the NHL and that just isn't going to change. However he's also one of the toughest players in the NHL to battle against which rates a premium come Playoff time.

A #2 offensive C is the top priority. The utility of both a scoring and shutdown line behind Aho's makes the team a lot more dangerous.

 

[GoldiFox]

$5.5 million x 5 years for Eberle. Not bad at all, unfortunate he's off the market.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Over 1000.

With things starting to heat up, it's the perfect time for a new one.

 

[Vagrant]

i think that's a smart move by eberle's team to take that deal. there's simply not enough teams with the cap space to pay all these free agents what is considered market value in this new climate and it wouldn't shock me a bit to see several higher profile free agents take less than they thought they were going to get with the uncertainty of the work stoppage. the math just doesn't add up that the 20-25 quality free agents out there will all get the $5 million plus they are chasing when so many teams are pressed for space. the fact that so many players are opting for unrestricted status means the prices are going to naturally drive themselves down except for the top 5-10 guys who will get their money regardless. this is a deep class of unrestricted talent and if you have a chance to get your money from a team up front, you would be wise to strongly consider it.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

itym Malik 3.0

p.s. in case you've forgotten:

Malik was the Original "big soft defenseman that was way better than everyone realized and everyone shit on him anyway because he didn't hit people enough". Pitkanen was actually Malik 2.0.

 

[My Special Purpose]

It is seriously weird that RFAs have more bargaining power than UFAs right now.

Granted, they're generally better players, but that's not the way the system is set up to work.

 

[Tryamw]

So are jerks being recalled? Regardless we need a few good ones

 

[MinJaBen]

It is seriously weird that RFAs have more bargaining power than UFAs right now.

Granted, they're generally better players, but that's not the way the system is set up to work.

Do they? As you said, most of the RFAs we are talking about are better players than most of the UFAs available, but I don't see them having more bargaining power.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Do they? As you said, most of the RFAs we are talking about are better players than most of the UFAs available, but I don't see them having more bargaining power.

When Eberle only gets $5.5 million per, I think it's safe to say that UFAs have lost some bargaining power. Now, it's possible they've lost that bargaining power because GMs are tired of paying for age 28-32 seasons, when most players are most productive from ages 23-27, but they have clearly lost some bargaining power.

 

[MinJaBen]

When Eberle only gets $5.5 million per, I think it's safe to say that UFAs have lost some bargaining power. Now, it's possible they've lost that bargaining power because GMs are tired of paying for age 28-32 seasons, when most players are most productive from ages 23-27, but they have clearly lost some bargaining power.

I think you are more correct about the value he is bringing versus some of the RFAs out there than the bargaining power. I'd much rather the Canes go sign Kapanen than Eberle, but before today, we had a much better shot of signing Eberle because his bargaining power with the Isles meant he could chose to go elsewhere while Kapanen can't do that.

 

[The Stranger]

Think of it this way, if you were trying to re-sign Aho, would you prefer he be RFA or UFA?

 

[My Special Purpose]

I think you are more correct about the value he is bringing versus some of the RFAs out there than the bargaining power. I'd much rather the Canes go sign Kapanen than Eberle, but before today, we had a much better shot of signing Eberle because his bargaining power with the Isles meant he could chose to go elsewhere while Kapanen can't do that.

But that is new. Which is my point. It used to be that you didn't have to pay your RFAs what the market said they were worth, *because* they were RFAs. They had no real leverage, so they had to sign at a cut-rate price. The move to paying RFAs market value is brand-new. I mean, you don't have to go back very far at all to see superstars signing RFA contracts well below market value. The Matthews contract basically removed any line between RFA and UFA money, which, by definition, costs UFAs money.

In other words, the market used to be skewed toward paying UFAs. Now it's not.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Think of it this way, if you were trying to re-sign Aho, would you prefer he be RFA or UFA?

I'd rather he be an RFA, because we have the opportunity to match any offer, but it's not going to affect his contract terms one tiny bit. In the past, it would have made a difference how much he got paid.

Whether Aho was a UFA or RFA, he's getting the same contract. It's just that as an RFA, it's basically guaranteed it will be with us.

 

[MinJaBen]

But that is new. Which is my point. It used to be that you didn't have to pay your RFAs what the market said they were worth, *because* they were RFAs. They had no real leverage, so they had to sign at a cut-rate price. The move to paying RFAs market value is brand-new. I mean, you don't have to go back very far at all to see superstars signing RFA contracts well below market value. The Matthews contract basically removed any line between RFA and UFA money, which, by definition, costs UFAs money.

In other words, the market used to be skewed toward paying UFAs. Now it's not.

Bad GMs unfortunately are setting the market and it came at a time when some generational players worth the cost of offersheet compensation came into the league. No one was going offersheet McKinnon and pay four 1sts if he held out, but McDavid makes that doable and PC didn't bother to try and use his leverage. That gave Matthews a comparable and Dubas had cap issues to deal with so he only bought out one RFA year. Bad GMs. There are still guys signing good deals with other clubs, and there will still be good deals for RFAs signed this summer.



But not in Toronto. Boy Blunder will screw this one up, too.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Bad GMs unfortunately are setting the market and it came at a time when some generational players worth the cost of offersheet compensation came into the league. No one was going offersheet McKinnon and pay four 1sts if he held out, but McDavid makes that doable and PC didn't bother to try and use his leverage. That gave Matthews a comparable and Dubas had cap issues to deal with so he only bought out one RFA year. Bad GMs. There are still guys signing good deals with other clubs, and there will still be good deals for RFAs signed this summer.



But not in Toronto. Boy Blunder will screw this one up, too.

Seriously, just compare Turbo and Nylander deals, which would you rather have?

 

[My Special Purpose]

Bad GMs unfortunately are setting the market and it came at a time when some generational players worth the cost of offersheet compensation came into the league. No one was going offersheet McKinnon and pay four 1sts if he held out, but McDavid makes that doable and PC didn't bother to try and use his leverage. That gave Matthews a comparable and Dubas had cap issues to deal with so he only bought out one RFA year. Bad GMs. There are still guys signing good deals with other clubs, and there will still be good deals for RFAs signed this summer.



But not in Toronto. Boy Blunder will screw this one up, too.

Seriously, just compare Turbo and Nylander deals, which would you rather have?

I understand all this, but in a union (NHLPA) all that matters are comparables. It's only a matter of time before nobody is signing the Turbo deal, because the Nylander deal is the preferred comparable. Maybe that's the holdup right now -- as a matter of fact, I'm sure it is -- getting the second-tier RFAs signed. Teams are offering Turbo deals and players are insisting on Nylander deals.

All I know is that we'd better get Aho signed before Marner. Because once Boy Blunder comes out with that one, no RFA will ever sign for Turbo money again.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

When Eberle only gets $5.5 million per, I think it's safe to say that UFAs have lost some bargaining power. Now, it's possible they've lost that bargaining power because GMs are tired of paying for age 28-32 seasons, when most players are most productive from ages 23-27, but they have clearly lost some bargaining power.

When you put it that way, it's the most logical thing in the world. We are constantly talking up the importance of good, young, cost-controlled assets, aren't we?

 

[A Star is Burns]

Yeah, I'd much rather be in a system where you get them cheap on an ELC, pay them when they are actually worth it, and the older, declining players get left with the scraps.

 

[My Special Purpose]

When you put it that way, it's the most logical thing in the world. We are constantly talking up the importance of good, young, cost-controlled assets, aren't we?

Yeah, I'd much rather be in a system where you get them cheap on an ELC, pay them when they are actually worth it, and the older, declining players get left with the scraps.

See, I disagree. Because we were never players in the UFA market anyway, because there's no value there, so the huge UFA deals for crap players *benefited* us. Contracts like David Clarkson, Milan Lucic and Kyle Okposo are *great* for us because we didn't sign them, but those teams lost all that cap money. It's just like trying to get your opponents to overpay for players in an auction for a fantasy football league. The more money they spend on crap, the less money they have to bid against you for good players.

Now that we're being forced to pay RFAs what they're worth, we lose a huge part of our advantage.

It's still early in this process, though, so we have time to work out a response, but it may be signing more 28-32 year old UFAs. There will be value somewhere, but it won't be RFAs anymore. It *could* be in guys like Eberle (and maybe, Ferland) who aren't getting the UFA bonanza they once were, and now may be overlooked.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I was speaking in general, not about us. I'm not in love with systems where you end up paying for declining players and soon to be has beens. But so far, it's still largely the highest end players getting crazy money as RFA's, though the tide is raising all RFA ships to an extent I suppose. I guess I just look at the contract we signed Skinner to as and RFA quite some time back and the contract we signed Teravainen to, and I'm not that worried that there's a massive change that will kill us. I look at Faulk vs Slavin and Pesce, and I still don't see a huge reason for concern. We'll feel it with Aho and Svech, but they're gonna be worth it.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I think the RFAs have more power right now because the GMs have given it to them. GMs are handing out YUGE deals to keep RFAs based on a couple of good years. Teams have really crept up the cap ladder with these big deals and there is less for the UFAs to have. At the same time, there are less quality UFAs and subsequently they get more than they should.

I think we will see more of this as time goes on. The cap isnt taking these large leaps due to revenue growth like we have seen. Less room for the big spenders to keep spending. On top of that, even the lower budget teams are starting to spend more, leaving less "please take my bad contract" deals to be had. It'll be tight until Seattle jumps in and adds the revenue base. We'll see a decent jump in the cap causing the big spenders to get close to 100 million in salary.

 

[FreshSeabass]

LeBrun Notebook: Lack of comparables make Jordan...

Seems like he hasn't shut the door on us completely. If some other teams come in at less or the same as our numbers maybe he will stay.

• There haven’t been any real discussions since the season ended between the Hurricanes and pending UFA power forward Micheal Ferland which seems to strongly suggest he’s headed to the July 1 market or at least to the June 23 UFA speaking period. I think Ferland would like to keep Carolina as an option but hearing from other teams certainly appears to be in the cards right now.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

LeBrun Notebook: Lack of comparables make Jordan...

Seems like he hasn't shut the door on us completely. If some other teams come in at less or the same as our numbers maybe he will stay.

Yea I bet Ferland is much like CDH last year. We’ll call you on the first and let ya know we’re interested. When you don’t get the interest we’ll sign you to a 4 x 4.5 deal a couple of days later.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Yea I bet Ferland is much like CDH last year. We’ll call you on the first and let ya know we’re interested. When you don’t get the interest we’ll sign you to a 4 x 4.5 deal a couple of days later.

I'll say this, I don't think that scenario is likely, but it's a lot more likely than it was two months ago.