All purpose trade/roster building thread part 12

[spockBokk]

Bean for Andersen?

Nope

 

[AD Skinner]

I just want to commend the home alone reference

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What’s interesting is that there are a number of Leafs fans that don’t want to give up too much in Parayko proposals because he’s only signed for 2 years, but there are a lot that want a great return for Andersen, who is signed for one.

I’ve learned to never say never with this management team, but will be exceedingly disappointed if they give up 13oa or Bean or anything too valuable for 1 year of Andersen, particularly with how uncertain next season is.

 

[GoldiFox]

Toronto fan on MB said it best. Why wouldn't the Canes just sign a UFA and draft Askarov with #13 and have both a short and long-term solution rather than 1 year of Andersen.

The only way I'd feel good about the Canes giving up a prospect like Bean for Andersen is if he agreed to an ideal extension of 2-3 years at $5-6 million.

 

[Joe McGrath]

What’s interesting is that there are a number of Leafs fans that don’t want to give up too much in Parayko proposals because he’s only signed for 2 years, but there are a lot that want a great return for Andersen, who is signed for one.

I’ve learned to never say never with this management team, but will be exceedingly disappointed if they give up 13oa or Bean or anything too valuable for 1 year of Andersen, particularly with how uncertain next season is.

That’s the thing, there has never been a worse time to trade guys with 1 year left on their contracts. The value is buried beneath the shitter at this point.

 

[2Minutes4Surging]

Toronto fan on MB said it best. Why wouldn't the Canes just sign a UFA and draft Askarov with #13 and have both a short and long-term solution rather than 1 year of Andersen.

THIS! It does not make any sense to trade for Andersen. We can acquire one of many good goalies through FREE agency. Our front office has shown time and again that they are looking for value, and they put a dollar value on everything from picks to prospects to roster players. Picks hold tons of dollar value, as they are FREE, and they are used to acquire players who will be under team control for many years at a low AAV. Giving up a 1st for any player who has a lower salary (assuming TOR pays his bonus prior to trade) than AAV for one year is very short sided, and out of character. I truly do not see any scenario where we pick up Andersen at all.

 

[spockBokk]

I truly do not see any scenario where we pick up Andersen at all.

I’ll respectfully disagree with this point.

I think it makes perfect sense for the braintrust/borg to sniff around Andersen. He’s certainly got a better track record as a #1 when compared to Mrazek or Reimer. I think they’re quite interested, but certainly not at the price of a 1st or equivalent prospect. They balked at a 1st for Kapanen, who they’ve been rumored after for a while and had term left. There’s no way they give up 13OA for 1 year of Andersen.

I’m not really sure what a deal would look like. Perhaps one of the 2nds or a roster forward like Foegele? I don’t really like either of those options, as has already been mentioned, there will be other trade options (Murray/Jarry) or ufa options (Markstrom/Holtby/Lehner. I’ll throw it out there that they might be looking at Andersen in a package type deal from TOR for Hamilton, if things go sour on that front.

Also, they have to have a taker for one of Mrazek or Reimer if they bring in a goalie via trade. Dubas likely will not take one of them back as they’re looking for an upgrade over Andersen, thus why he’s available. Seems like it’d be pretty complicated to pull off.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I’ll respectfully disagree with this point.

I think it makes perfect sense for the braintrust/borg to sniff around Andersen. He’s certainly got a better track record as a better regular season when compared to Mrazek or Reimer. I think they’re quite interested, but certainly not at the price of a 1st or equivalent prospect. They balked at a 1st for Kapanen, who they’ve been rumored after for a while and had term left. There’s no way they give up 13OA for 1 year of Andersen.

I’m not really sure what a deal would look like. Perhaps one of the 2nds or a roster forward like Foegele? I don’t really like either of those options, as has already been mentioned, there will be other trade options (Murray/Jarry) or ufa options (Markstrom/Holtby/Lehner. I’ll throw it out there that they might be looking at Andersen in a package type deal from TOR for Hamilton, if things go sour on that front.

unless the roster forward is Nino, a 2nd and roster forward is a no go for me.

 

[Chrispy]

Toronto fan on MB said it best. Why wouldn't the Canes just sign a UFA and draft Askarov with #13 and have both a short and long-term solution rather than 1 year of Andersen.

The only way I'd feel good about the Canes giving up a prospect like Bean for Andersen is if he agreed to an ideal extension of 2-3 years at $5-6 million.

I'm not going to say it makes zero sense to go after Andersen as a rental. But I will say Toronto won't like the offers they receive from Carolina.

Bean? More like McKeown or Kaski. Maybe Keane, but I doubt that as well. Someone like McKeown and a 3rd or 4th round pick sounds about right for a goalie rental. And that's if Carolina thinks they are going to strike out on the UFA market and trade market.

Last year, a 1 year bridge to this off-season made some sense. This is the big UFA year for goalies. Next year's UFA crop?

Lundqvist (39)
Rask (34)
Rinne (38)
Andersen (31)
Binnington/Allen (both UFA, STL will sign one)
Dubnyk (35)
Raanta (32)
Grubauer
Hutton (35)
Rittich
Halak (36)

This is the year to go for a medium-term solution at goalie between the trade market and UFA market. (Thinking of Kochetkov or a pick like Askarov as long-term solutions.)

 

[Justshootmore]

Twitter at its best

 

[SvechneJerk]

I'm going to have to re-institute my self-imposed moratorium on looking at TML-CAR threads on the MB.

 

[GoldiFox]

Twitter at its best

That's bad but the rest of that thread is Toronto fans debating whether Hamilton or Pesce would be the better return for Andersen which isn't much better.

 

[Chrispy]

That's bad but the rest of that thread is Toronto fans debating whether Hamilton or Pesce would be the better return for Andersen which isn't much better.

IF Hamilton is going to UFA, Andersen as part of a package for a rental Hamilton is something I could see.

But Andersen is an add-on to make the cap work, he's not the centerpiece of the package.

As has been said so many times, the time where Pesce could be leveraged for a top 6 forward has passed. At a minimum, it's on pause until Hamilton signs.

 

[vorbis]

That’s the thing, there has never been a worse time to trade guys with 1 year left on their contracts. The value is buried beneath the shitter at this point.

aaaaand I think we've uncovered the reason why the Canes are interested, and the level of return at which they would be interested

 

[GoldiFox]

IF Hamilton is going to UFA, Andersen as part of a package for a rental Hamilton is something I could see.

But Andersen is an add-on to make the cap work, he's not the centerpiece of the package.

As has been said so many times, the time where Pesce could be leveraged for a top 6 forward has passed. At a minimum, it's on pause until Hamilton signs.

From a competition standpoint Toronto is one of the last teams that I would want to trade Hamilton to. As Friedman said in his 31 thoughts, Toronto only moves Andersen if they find an upgrade. Trading Hamilton to Toronto for something like Andersen + #15 and then Toronto signing Lehner upgrades both their defense and goaltending for less than the price of Kapanen.

Hamilton for Nylander is a little more appealing as it hurts their roster but I'm not really sold on Nylander being a piece the Canes should spend money on. He seems to be more of what the Canes already have in Aho, Teravainen, Necas, Suzuki, and Bokk.

 

[spockBokk]

From a competition standpoint Toronto is one of the last teams that I would want to trade Hamilton to. As Friedman said in his 31 thoughts, Toronto only moves Andersen if they find an upgrade. Trading Hamilton to Toronto for something like Andersen + #15 and then Toronto signing Lehner upgrades both their defense and goaltending for less than the price of Kapanen.

Hamilton for Nylander is a little more appealing as it hurts their roster but I'm not really sold on Nylander being a piece the Canes should spend money on. He seems to be more of what the Canes already have in Aho, Teravainen, Necas, Suzuki, and Bokk.

Agree on the potential for Hamilton in TOR as being less than ideal, but if they’re willing to part with say, Andersen + 15OA + Liljgren or the like for Hamilton + small add, I think you have to listen. I think of all the teams potentially looking for D, TOR would be the most willing to pay premium pricing on a D like Hamilton.

Also, even with an extension, I don’t think Dubas would give up Nylander for Hamilton, just a hunch I have. Let’s hope it all becomes moot after it’s announced the Canes have re-signed Hamilton.

 

[spockBokk]

Just sayin...Ehlers would look real nice with Trocheck and Svechnikov...

 

[A Star is Burns]

Mostly leaving aside the Andersen stuff, which I could totally see happening and is probably slightly more than Canes fans are saying and way less than some Leafs fans would want, this still may be an interesting offseason coming up even if they are vowing less moves.

Whether Andersen or whoever, it's good to know they are probably looking to upgrade on the goalies. Worst case, we fall back in with the guys we have for a year. We're probably going to move on from a couple guys currently on the roster from the McGinn, Dzingel, Gardiner, Nino pile. And we'll probably try to add one more good player up front.

Then of course there is the wild card of what happens with Hamilton and the perhaps sneaky wild card of Brett Pesce and his injury. After guys like de Haan having several injuries and what just happened with Tarasenko, I wouldn't be shocked to see them move on there if they still get high end value for him. Shoulders seem scary business.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Looking for a draft pick trade comparable, Brian Elliot to the Flames in 2016 is the best I can find. He was coming off of a .930 year as the 1A of a platoon and started all of the Blues' games in their run to the Conference Finals. Elliot, like Andersen is about to be, was 31 at the time of trade. He also had just 1 year of term left. Andersen has more name value and a better track record on one hand. On the other, there is a lot of depth in the market that should put downward pressure on his value.

The return was a high 2nd (35OA) and a 3rd conditional on Elliot re-signing (Link).

 

[spockBokk]

Mostly leaving aside the Andersen stuff, which I could totally see happening and is probably slightly more than Canes fans are saying and way less than some Leafs fans would want, this still may be an interesting offseason coming up even if they are vowing less moves.

Whether Andersen or whoever, it's good to know they are probably looking to upgrade on the goalies. Worst case, we fall back in with the guys we have for a year. We're probably going to move on from a couple guys currently on the roster from the McGinn, Dzingel, Gardiner, Nino pile. And we'll probably try to add one more good player up front.

Then of course there is the wild card of what happens with Hamilton and the perhaps sneaky wild card of Brett Pesce and his injury. After guys like de Haan having several injuries and what just happened with Tarasenko, I wouldn't be shocked to see them move on there if they still get high end value for him. Shoulders seem scary business.

The moving on from Pesce due to injury concerns angle is interesting. I see a low likelihood of something coming out of it, but if they can re-sign Hamilton and maybe lock up Vatanen on a Covid discount or get a head start on re-signing a DeMelo type (hello Pesce + to WPG for Ehlers + Rights to DeMelo) I bet they really could get a haul for Pesce.

 

[Vagrant]

reimer is my horse. there are some guys whose name value around the league suffers from circumstance. he's a perfectly adequate 1A goaltender, but he's a 1A that has been asked to carry more water than that because the leafs were trotting out backups like ben scrivens and jonas gustavasson during his time with toronto. plus, as we know, toronto is the worst market in hockey to underperform expectations and they derided him for most of his developmental years. when he went to florida and starting splitting starts with a more than competent luongo, he got the distribution of starts that best fits his style. the end of his panthers tenure was tough, but he did a lot of recovery here last season in my opinion. he's got the same kind of story as curtis mac from toronto where he's just put up relatively solid results to not much fanfare.

if we're going to pursue something on the goalie front, we should be casting eyes towards matt murray or tristan jarry. perhaps even king hank for a year or two to split starts with reims and limit their workload.

 

[Vagrant]

The moving on from Pesce due to injury concerns angle is interesting. I see a low likelihood of something coming out of it, but if they can re-sign Hamilton and maybe lock up Vatanen on a Covid discount or get a head start on re-signing a DeMelo type (hello Pesce + to WPG for Ehlers + Rights to DeMelo) I bet they really could get a haul for Pesce.

i think if we deal pesce in any move, be it with calgary for johnny hockey or for a goalie (imagine pittsburgh's goaltending surplus and what they'd do for pesce) we have to double back on edmundson and try to fill the vacancy with a puck mover on the bottom pairing.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The moving on from Pesce due to injury concerns angle is interesting. I see a low likelihood of something coming out of it, but if they can re-sign Hamilton and maybe lock up Vatanen on a Covid discount or get a head start on re-signing a DeMelo type (hello Pesce + to WPG for Ehlers + Rights to DeMelo) I bet they really could get a haul for Pesce.

A team is going to look at this club trading a 2/3 RHD with a great contract who they don't have a replacement for because of injury concerns only to turn around and pay full price for the same player? I don't think you can have that both ways.

 

[spockBokk]

i think if we deal pesce in any move, be it with calgary for johnny hockey or for a goalie (imagine pittsburgh's goaltending surplus and what they'd do for pesce) we have to double back on edmundson and try to fill the vacancy with a puck mover on the bottom pairing.

I hope they’ve learned their lesson in tinkering too much with the blue-line. I’m more than fine with them rolling with what they have. Gardiner-Fleury, is an expensive, yet very, very good 3rd pairing.

However, knowing how the trade deadline and last 2 offseasons have gone, I’m certainly not expecting them to sit on their hands.

 

[MinJaBen]

I keep seeing posts, both here and in other team forums and the main board, where everyone is looking to move a guy to free up space for other moves. Gardiner, Andersen, Hank, lots of guys in Arizona, etc. Where does everyone think all these guys are going to go? In a year where there may be no gate revenues? I think most teams will have essentially the same roster they had this year, if they play at all.