All purpose trade/roster building thread part 12

[DougieSmash]

Bjugstad would be okay here. A healthy Bjugstad would be pretty good next to Staal.

Rofl. Bjugstad is epic bad. He bring nothing at all, why do you want him?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Pens could [hypothetically] clear cap in a separate trade, but I'd certainly be interested in Nino for futures.

Im sure a lot of Canes fans wouldn’t want to do it bc it’s an extra year of term but maybe something around Nino for Hornqvist?

We need more gritty, hard nosed veterans I feel and another right hand shot wouldn’t hurt either. Hornqvist checks those boxes and maybe would be a good fit with the wonder Finns and a physical net front presence and big bodied pick retriever.

If we were able to move Gardiner in a separate deal like the one proposed above (B. Smith + 24OA for Gardiner + 2nd rounder) then I think some of the cap concerns go away.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

While I don't think Bjugstad is bad, I do think his greatest value next season would be if he were on the LTIR all season.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Rofl. Bjugstad is epic bad. He bring nothing at all, why do you want him?

One year less term, cheaper, RH faceoff guy to play with Staal so we don’t suck the life out of Geekie there.

 

[AD Skinner]

Im sure a lot of Canes fans wouldn’t want to do it bc it’s an extra year of term but maybe something around Nino for Hornqvist?

We need more gritty, hard nosed veterans I feel and another right hand shot wouldn’t hurt either. Hornqvist checks those boxes and maybe would be a good fit with the wonder Finns and a physical net front presence and big bodied pick retriever.

I think I'd probably do that. We don't really have anyone that plays hornqvist's style and it could be a big help. He does have a no trade clause that he'd have to waive though so not sure if this is very realistic.

 

[Moosetache]

Would we have to protect Horny in the expansion with a NTC or is it just the NMC you have to protect? I'm thinking just the NMC but wanted to be sure.

If so, I'd do that deal all day, that's a guy who could play with the Finns.

 

[DaMillers]

Does anyone see any way that we could get someone to take Staal off our hands (that he agrees to of course due to NMC) Maybe retain a million or two to make him more palatable? He has become so one-dimensional and cannot seem to keep up with the pace of the game. I think I have seen enough

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Would we have to protect Horny in the expansion with a NTC or is it just the NMC you have to protect? I'm thinking just the NMC but wanted to be sure.

If so, I'd do that deal all day, that's a guy who could play with the Finns.

NTC = no trade clause. The draft is not considered a trade, so Hornqvist does not need to be draft protected.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Does anyone see any way that we could get someone to take Staal off our hands (that he agrees to of course due to NMC) Maybe retain a million or two to make him more palatable? He has become so one-dimensional and cannot seem to keep up with the pace of the game. I think I have seen enough

I think we are a year short on this. If Necas is ready for center duties in 22 then okay. Aho, Necas, Trocheck, and Geekie/Drury/Cotton would be a good center group. This season we would have to go get another center because a group of Aho, Trocheck, Geekie, and Marty isnt a great one. Moving Staal after giving him captaincy and then having to acquire another center to replace him would look pretty shady.

Even then, I dont know that we see us moving Staal.

 

[AD Skinner]

Staal isn't going anywhere. Brind'Amour loves him and even if he didn't he makes more money than his play is really worth. Not exorbitantly so but enough that, along with his no move clause, there's no way we come out winning any trade involving him

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think we are a year short on this. If Necas is ready for center duties in 22 then okay. Aho, Necas, Trocheck, and Geekie/Drury/Cotton would be a good center group. This season we would have to go get another center because a group of Aho, Trocheck, Geekie, and Marty isnt a great one. Moving Staal after giving him captaincy and then having to acquire another center to replace him would look pretty shady.

Who do you see being able to take the tough match-ups, against the toughest competition, mainly in the D-zone of that group? Staal is overpaid for what he brings, but I think if the Canes did want to move him, they need to have someone that they can count on to fill that role. Necas just can't. Not sure Aho can either, but then it puts him more at risk for injury and may take away a lot of his offense. Haven't seen enough from Trocheck to know if he can. Not suggesting Staal is ideal, but that needs to be addressed if he gets moved.

Even then, I dont know that we see us moving Staal.

Agree, Rod loves him.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Who do you see being able to take the tough match-ups, against the toughest competition, mainly in the D-zone of that group? Staal is overpaid for what he brings, but I think if the Canes did want to move him, they need to have someone that they can count on to fill that role. Necas just can't. Not sure Aho can either, but then it puts him more at risk for injury and may take away a lot of his offense. Haven't seen enough from Trocheck to know if he can. Not suggesting Staal is ideal, but that needs to be addressed if he gets moved.



Agree, Rod loves him.

In the smallest of possibilities that is moving Staal after next season, it would be a blend of Trocheck and Aho. Aho did very well against the Ranger's top line and Rod has gained faith in his defensive abilities following Staal's long term injury in the 18-19 season. Also, Trocheck seemed to gain some trust from Rod too. He was out there in big situations for us. We will learn more about Trocheck next season. I still dont think we move Staal. Even if we would consider it, we are too early in the process for it to make sense.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

In the smallest of possibilities that is moving Staal after next season, it would be a blend of Trocheck and Aho. Aho did very well against the Ranger's top line and Rod has gained faith in his defensive abilities following Staal's long term injury in the 18-19 season. Also, Trocheck seemed to gain some trust from Rod too. He was out there in big situations for us. We will learn more about Trocheck next season. I still dont think we move Staal. Even if we would consider it, we are too early in the process for it to make sense.

Against soft, finesse teams, I think Aho can do fine. Against stronger teams with more size and firepower, I think he'll struggle. Having him have to go against Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak every match-up, even dictated by Rod, would be a problem I think. That's the real beauty of that Boston line. Bergeron is so good he can handle tough matchups from other teams and the line still produces.

IIRC, against WSH last year, Aho went up against the Kuznetzov line and did fine. Staal handled the OVI line.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Moving Staal eventually might be inevitable due to the whole captaincy thing. It didn't work the first time with Staal/Faulk. The message we got from the team and front office and whatever was that it was a failure because it was two captains and no one took the room. Well, I don't know that anyone took the room anyway even with just Staal. He's a great "A", is he a "C"? I don't know and I don't think so.

However, can you take the "C" from him twice without trading him? It'd be one thing if Williams comes back next year to start the year (though I doubt it). Otherwise, how do you make that transition without things going sour?

(I don't think that'll happen this year and this was more of a brain dump than agreeing/disagreeing with anything anyone posted here.)

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Oh no. Not the captain debate again.

 

[GoldiFox]

Rod would probably hand in his resignation the same day they trade Staal.

Jordan having some of the worst hands and offensive instincts in the entire NHL would be more forgiveable if he wasn't so marshmallow soft. He does a great job of limiting opposing offense. However I can't think of a much better representation of Staal's limitations then him getting humiliated by a 22 year old, 6 foot McAvoy. McAvoy hit Staal harder than Staal has ever hit someone in his whole career. Just no intensity.

That said the Canes don't have a much better option for captain right now.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Staal is not a perfect player. OK, that’s the understatement of the year. Offence dies on his stick and on his line except when he gets on one of those streaks and goes beast mode which is only once or twice a year. Yes, he should be a better net front presence and able to bang in dirty goals in the crease. But for some reason he doesn’t. We can’t change that and because of his NMC and salary he’s not going to be moved.

Having said all do that, he’s still a very useful player and has certain skills that the rest of the team generally lacks. He’s a defensive beast. Strong on boards and possession. Good at face offs and shuts down the opposing teams top lines. This is a terrible label to give someone but he’s a toilet. When you think of toilets you have this negative connotation of them because people take shits on them but they are an amazing device and what it allows you to do is keep the rest of your house free of shit.

That’s what this team needs to do. Forget about Staal and his line creating any offence. Let them do their job of shutting down the other teams best players and grinding them down so Aho, TT, Svech, Necas, Tro, etc can just worry about scoring goals and pretty passing plays.

The problem is when our top players aren’t scoring. That’s not Staals fault and it’s not fair to say ‘Hey, Jordan I know you’re busy shutting down the other teams best players and taking all the tough zone starts, important faceoffs, killing penalties, etc but could you also score some goals because our super gifted offensive players aren’t doing that right now?’

I don’t think our forwards too far off from being a really good group but it does need a bit of balancing.

? - Aho - TT
Svech - Tro - Necas
Foegele - Staal - ?
Martinook - Geekie - McGinn

If Williams comes back there’s a spot on the 3rd line for him. If not then McGinn or Marty can play there and we can fill the 4th line with a cheap alternative.

The problem is that Nino and Dzingle aren’t filling the roles they need to right now. Nino doesn’t need to be a 50-60 point power forward, although that would be great, but if he’s not doing that the. He needs to be doing the dirty work on a scoring line and getting pucks to guys like Aho and TT and mucking it up on the boards and in front of the net.

Dzingle is simple. He’s a 2nd/3rd line scoring threat. If he’s not doing that then he’s not doing much. Right now there’s not much of a spot for him on the roster.

So, I’m my view some of it depends on if Williams comes back but that’s a minor line shuffle on the 3rd/4th line. The bigger issue is making sure the top 2 lines are clicking.

I don’t like Svech with Aho and TT because that’s overloading a line in my opinion and it would be difficult to find enough talent for a strong 2nd line. Svech - Tro - Necas seems balanced to me.

I think the top line would do well with a RH hard nosed gritty player with some scoring touch. That’s where a Hornqvist type player would come in. There’s some other options out there as well. I’m checking out some other teams boards right now to see which players might be on the move due to a cap crunch but Pittsburgh and Chicago are two teams that I could see there being a partner in.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Rod would probably hand in his resignation the same day they trade Staal.

Jordan having some of the worst hands and offensive instincts in the entire NHL would be more forgiveable if he wasn't so marshmallow soft. He does a great job of limiting opposing offense. However I can't think of a much better representation of Staal's limitations then him getting humiliated by a 22 year old, 6 foot McAvoy. McAvoy hit Staal harder than Staal has ever hit someone in his whole career. Just no intensity.

That said the Canes don't have a much better option for captain right now.

What's funny is that various media outfits referred to Williams as the captain in the past few weeks, enough that I had to go check to make sure I didn't miss anything. Here's one example. I saw another one after his fight in the Ranger's series and in an interview during the Ranger's series, the hosts introduced him as the captain.

Hurricanes captain says his team ate a 'poop sandwich' against Bruins in Game 2

 

[bleedgreen]

I‘be been one of the bigger anti Staal voices around here but I don’t even bother talking about moving him. I think the contract makes it unlikely, Rod would never have it, and I think we have the blinders on and don’t even believe it’s a problem.

One thing they must notice is that he’s a much better third center and keeping someone in the two hole is a priority. Trochek is perfect but only if he produces.

As against Staal as I am I do really like him as a third center, and really like Foegele/McGinn as is wings. The only two guys where the offense dying is irrelevant and they played well off each other.

The captain question is moot. Before doing a bad job at it before he actually said no thanks to the job in the first place, and we still gave him the job. The team played the way he plays this season, and they aren’t going to see it. We aren’t trading him so we aren’t taking the C off his chest. Even if they knew they’d say they have a lot of leadership in the room. Which hasn’t played out in the playoffs yet.

We need a Gary Roberts.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I was worried about an internal cap under the circumstances. You can criticize the way Dundon does business sometimes, but not his overall commitment.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I‘be been one of the bigger anti Staal voices around here but I don’t even bother talking about moving him. I think the contract makes it unlikely, Rod would never have it, and I think we have the blinders on and don’t even believe it’s a problem.

One thing they must notice is that he’s a much better third center and keeping someone in the two hole is a priority. Trochek is perfect but only if he produces.

As against Staal as I am I do really like him as a third center, and really like Foegele/McGinn as is wings. The only two guys where the offense dying is irrelevant and they played well off each other.

The captain question is moot. Before doing a bad job at it before he actually said no thanks to the job in the first place, and we still gave him the job. The team played the way he plays this season, and they aren’t going to see it. We aren’t trading him so we aren’t taking the C off his chest. Even if they knew they’d say they have a lot of leadership in the room. Which hasn’t played out in the playoffs yet.

We need a Gary Roberts.

Yep, PROVIDED Rod manages TOI accordingly. He seemed to do that in the playoffs.

ESTOI/GP
Aho: 15:09
Trocheck: 13:38
Staal: 12:52

SHTOI/GP
Staal: 3:29
Aho: 1:50
Trocheck: 1:04

PPTOI/GP
Aho: 3:50
Trocheck: 2:49
Staal: 0:05

That's pretty much what we'd want to see. We just need Trocheck to find some offense next year. Hopefully he has it in him still.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I was worried about an internal cap under the circumstances. You can criticize the way Dundon does business sometimes, but not his overall commitment.

he knows we need a reset of last off-season.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

he knows we need a reset of last off-season.

Probably. The front office might also feel they outsmarted themselves last off-season and upset the chemistry, so might be more inclined to not make as many changes.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

what am I not understanding with this one? Are we talking Fox Sports or Adam Fox?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

what am I not understanding with this one? Are we talking Fox Sports or Adam Fox?

I guess he was just saying that covid 19 and the inability to play the final 8 home games really hurt their bottom line, but they met all obligations to fox sports?