All purpose trade/roster building thread part 12

[GIN ANTONIC]

Yep, PROVIDED Rod manages TOI accordingly. He seemed to do that in the playoffs.

ESTOI/GP
Aho: 15:09
Trocheck: 13:38
Staal: 12:52

SHTOI/GP
Staal: 3:29
Aho: 1:50
Trocheck: 1:04

PPTOI/GP
Aho: 3:50
Trocheck: 2:49
Staal: 0:05

That's pretty much what we'd want to see. We just need Trocheck to find some offense next year. Hopefully he has it in him still.

Im not worried about Tro. To me he looked committed and dangerous in the offensive zone during the playoffs. Some bad puck luck but he was creating a lot of chances in different ways. He’s not a one man show. He needs some wingers to pull their weight and finish off plays. He can absolutely be a 30-30 type player who plays a strong two way game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Im not worried about Tro. To me he looked committed and dangerous in the offensive zone during the playoffs. Some bad puck luck but he was creating a lot of chances in different ways. He’s not a one man show. He needs some wingers to pull their weight and finish off plays. He can absolutely be a 30-30 type player who plays a strong two way game.

I hope you are right. Florida fans think the trade was a slam dunk win in their favor, not because of who they got in return, but being able to get rid of Trochek without retention.

 

[bleedgreen]

Probably. The front office might also feel they outsmarted themselves last off-season and upset the chemistry, so might be more inclined to not make as many changes.

A nice thought but they’ve already lost the chemistry. Further disrupt away.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

What's funny is that various media outfits referred to Williams as the captain in the past few weeks, enough that I had to go check to make sure I didn't miss anything. Here's one example. I saw another one after his fight in the Ranger's series and in an interview during the Ranger's series, the hosts introduced him as the captain.

Hurricanes captain says his team ate a 'poop sandwich' against Bruins in Game 2

This is an article from last year when he was the captain.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

A nice thought but they’ve already lost the chemistry. Further disrupt away.

Yeah, I didn't mean they wouldn't make any changes, but being more careful on what changes and how many they make to try and get it back. New players right now from last season: Necas*, Dzingel, Haula/Trocheck, Gardiner, Edmundson, Skjei, Vatanen, Gibbons, Geekie*, Reimer.

That's a lot of new faces on top of the new faces from the prior season: Hamilton, Ferland, Foegele*, Svechnikov*, de Hann, Neiderreiter, Martinook, McKegg, Maenalanen, Mrazek, McElhinney.
* = drafted and promoted from within.

Not that a team want's to always keep the same roster, but too many changes, too often can backfire as well.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

This is an article from last year when he was the captain.

Duh.

In my haste to find the example, picked the wrong one. I definitely saw an article about the Ranger's series where they said the "captain fought" and another interview after the Ranger's series where the the hosts called him the captain. I had to go check myself if I missed something.

EDIT: here was the radio interview where they introduced him as the captain.

Justin Williams on his bout with Strome, their sweep of the Rangers & life inside the NHL bubble

 

[MinJaBen]

So a weird thread bump on the Leafs board brought an interesting post up in regards to the Leafs taking on some salary in the Lehner to Toronto to Vegas trade at the deadline (which I had forgotten even happened as part of that trade):

Toronto did not take on Lehner's salary in order to gain picks or prospects, they did it to block Carolina from getting Lehner. The prospect they sent away was enough to get that pick

They basically increased the price some West team was able to pay, thus preventing Carolina's offer from being enough to acquire him.

This seems to suggest that the Canes were very close to getting Lehner at the deadline. I hadn't heard that we were so close to doing that that we had an offer on the table that someone else could beat. Was this common knowledge?

 

[ONO94]

Ok--is anybody else as shocked as me that Kase didn't become a Hurricane? That guy looks tailor made for the Canes, especially the Peters led teams--I don't know if I have seen a player in the playoffs this year that can turn so many dangerous shots into easy saves by a goalie. The Bruins would be winning by six goals if he knew how to hit it where the goalie ain't.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I hope you are right. Florida fans think the trade was a slam dunk win in their favor, not because of who they got in return, but being able to get rid of Trochek without retention.

That’s fair for sure. Tro didn’t have a great last 2 years and the Panthers needed (and still need to) shed salary. Their forward core is maybe a bit bloated but they do have some expiring contracts that would have taken care of that.
Maybe Tro is like Nino in that he comes on strong with a new team and shows fire and ability but after a bit they get complacent.

All I know is if he continues to play like he did in the playoffs this year I’ll be happy with him as our 2C even if he doesn’t hit 60 points. As long as the team in winning and players are either scoring or facilitating scoring in some way then we’ll be going in the right direction.

 

[To Be Determined]

trocheck's individual play with the canes reminds me of the team's fall of '18 stretch. the results really didn't match the effort and good play. hopefully he can stay the course and be rewarded like the team was.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

So a weird thread bump on the Leafs board brought an interesting post up in regards to the Leafs taking on some salary in the Lehner to Toronto to Vegas trade at the deadline (which I had forgotten even happened as part of that trade):



This seems to suggest that the Canes were very close to getting Lehner at the deadline. I hadn't heard that we were so close to doing that that we had an offer on the table that someone else could beat. Was this common knowledge?

I don’t know if the Canes were close to getting Lehner or not but why would the Leafs take on salary retention to block a Lehner trade to Carolina?

I don’t see how Carolina’s success or lack of success either getting into the playoffs or in the playoffs would really be something on the Leafs mind.

Pre shutdown the only way the Leafs would have met Carolina in the playoffs would have been in the ECF and that seems like and odd thing worry about.

Also Carolina wasn’t battling with the Leafs for a playoff spot. TOR was pretty likely going to get the #3 spot in their division. FLA, MTL, BUF weren’t realistically close to catching them. We were in a dog fight For the two WC spots with NYI, CLB and kinda the Rangers.

 

[Chrispy]

I guess he was just saying that covid 19 and the inability to play the final 8 home games really hurt their bottom line, but they met all obligations to fox sports?

I'm guessing Fox Sports was looking for some sort of reimbursement if the season had not re-started since Carolina had not met minimums of the contract for broadcast games.

Combined with the losses from the home games that would have been bad.

 

[Chrispy]

I don’t know if the Canes were close to getting Lehner or not but why would the Leafs take on salary retention to block a Lehner trade to Carolina?

I don’t see how Carolina’s success or lack of success either getting into the playoffs or in the playoffs would really be something on the Leafs mind.

Pre shutdown the only way the Leafs would have met Carolina in the playoffs would have been in the ECF and that seems like and odd thing worry about.

Also Carolina wasn’t battling with the Leafs for a playoff spot. TOR was pretty likely going to get the #3 spot in their division. FLA, MTL, BUF weren’t realistically close to catching them. We were in a dog fight For the two WC spots with NYI, CLB and kinda the Rangers.

Maybe it was just a "keep Lehner out of the east" rationale and Carolina was the primary team looking at goalies in the east?

I see your point about the WC likely being Metro whether it's CAR, NYI, CLB, or NYR.

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

^

Fleury didn't sign until mid-July last year.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Maybe it was just a "keep Lehner out of the east" rationale and Carolina was the primary team looking at goalies in the east?

I see your point about the WC likely being Metro whether it's CAR, NYI, CLB, or NYR.

That’s a fair consideration and maybe TOR’s involvement was simply on the basis of “we’ll help facilitate on this deal as long as you don’t trade Lehner to a team in the East” but if true, then wow.... Dubas must have been sweating through his suit on a daily basis because that’s such a minor thing to be worried about.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not saying this is a bad thing, but I don't put too much stock into anything Don Waddell says in regards to players contract signing.

 

[Lempo]

I wonder how the Salary Arbitration dates will go this fall. Filing for one is a way to ensure getting signed to an objectively reasonable SPC. Both Fleury and Foegele are eligible.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I doubt that it would be well received but in browsing the UFA lists, Ceci stands out as a potential target. Brind'Amour commented on how much Edmundson was missed during the Boston series (Link). Ceci offers similar utility in terms of hits, blocked shots and penalty killing. The 6th guy being a RHS keeps everyone on their natural side. Whereas Gudas has greater name value and should end up requiring a decent commitment, Ceci should be a 1 year type. Toronto is an analytically inclined organization; what the Leafs saw may be what this FO sees as well.

EDIT: This assumes that Gardiner is dealt.

 

[bleedgreen]

I wonder how the Salary Arbitration dates will go this fall. Filing for one is a way to ensure getting signed to an objectively reasonable SPC. Both Fleury and Foegele are eligible.

It creates tension that nobody wants but definitely gets something done. I suspect Fleury could do well in arbitration. He really came on when they gave him a chance. Foegele can’t find the net enough to fight too hard.

 

[bleedgreen]

I doubt that it would be well received but in browsing the UFA lists, Ceci stands out as a potential target. Brind'Amour commented on how much Edmundson was missed during the Boston series (Link). Ceci offers similar utility in terms of hits, blocked shots and penalty killing. The 6th guy being a RHS keeps everyone on their natural side. Whereas Gudas has greater name value and should end up requiring a decent commitment, Ceci should be a 1 year type. Toronto is an analytically inclined organization; what the Leafs saw may be what this FO sees as well.

EDIT: This assumes that Gardiner is dealt.

Everyone hates him but Gudas would be a big step in the right direction. My biggest fear would be him being hurt or frequently suspended because he’d be out there alone. I’d hope like Ferland before him that it would rub off and everyone would chip in so it wouldn’t be one man standing alone.

 

[NotOpie]

A three-way trade with the Wild for Victor Rask.

A three-way is always Wild!

On Trocheck, prior to his broken leg, his shooting % was above 10%. Now lots of things play into that, especially linemates who can get you the puck in a good shooting situation. But his 7.8% shooting percentage can't be overlooked. For a guy who is historically a solid scorer, it feels like rust coming back from the injury followed by "pressing". If the Svech/Tro/Necas line stays together, I fully expect Vinnie to get his points; I'd be happy if he was a 55 point guy and with those youngsters and their passing acumen, I don't think that's out of the question.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Staal is not a perfect player. OK, that’s the understatement of the year. Offence dies on his stick and on his line except when he gets on one of those streaks and goes beast mode which is only once or twice a year. Yes, he should be a better net front presence and able to bang in dirty goals in the crease. But for some reason he doesn’t. We can’t change that and because of his NMC and salary he’s not going to be moved.

Having said all do that, he’s still a very useful player and has certain skills that the rest of the team generally lacks. He’s a defensive beast. Strong on boards and possession. Good at face offs and shuts down the opposing teams top lines. This is a terrible label to give someone but he’s a toilet. When you think of toilets you have this negative connotation of them because people take shits on them but they are an amazing device and what it allows you to do is keep the rest of your house free of shit.

This is a brilliant metaphor, because when the Bruins knocked the shit out of him, our shit ended up all over the ice.

 

[bleedgreen]

Trochek can create offense for himself, and he can snipe with authority - probably the purest shooting forward other than Svech. There’s reason to be hopeful.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

This is a brilliant metaphor, because when the Bruins knocked the shit out of him, our shit ended up all over the ice.

Just like how the Skjei hit on Fast rattled the Rangers. That hit on Staal really turned that game around in a big way