All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread II - The Search for More Depth

[Svechhammer]

Wouldn't it just be easier to put Gardiner on LTIR rather than buy him out?

 

[GoldiFox]

The question is whether you feel the forward you acquire is worth Bean + Nino or Bean + Foegele?

Because Nino or Foegele will be exposed, and likely picked over Geekie, if a Bean deal is made. If you want to try to get Seattle to take Gardiner, it's going to be expensive either way.

If the acquired forward isn't better than Nino/Foegele, you're downgrading the forwards just to spite Seattle.

Put one in the deal for the upgrade. Bean + Foegele + 1st or 2nd for Reinhart shouldn't be too far off.

 

[Chrispy]

Put one in the deal for the upgrade. Bean + Foegele + 1st or 2nd for Reinhart shouldn't be too far off.

Then you're losing Bean, Foegele, Nino (to Seattle) and a 1st/2nd to get back Reinhart.

When you add losing Nino in the expansion draft does the deal come out favorable to just losing Bean to Seattle, and keeping Nino, Foegele, and a 1st?

 

[cptjeff]

Wouldn't it just be easier to put Gardiner on LTIR rather than buy him out?

Yeah, I see LTIRetirement in Gardiner's future. He clearly has chronic injury issues that make him completely unable to play at an NHL level, no team is going to trade for him and we're not gonna be playing him.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Then you're losing Bean, Foegele, Nino (to Seattle) and a 1st/2nd to get back Reinhart.

When you add losing Nino in the expansion draft does the deal come out favorable to just losing Bean to Seattle, and keeping Nino, Foegele, and a 1st?

That's a good question and maybe the answer is yes? Not sure though.

Assuming we lose Bean in either scenario, the question becomes are the Canes better short term and for the next couple of years with Reinhart vs. Nino, Foegele and a 1st/2nd.

Nino is a UFA after next season and will be 30 to starts next deal, so I would guess the Canes may not be keeping him after next season anyhow and with Jarvis, Rees, Suzuki, Cotton, Drury (hopefully), etc... in the system and Lorentz and Geekie showing they are legit NHLrs, the team might be better off having Reinhart.

Hard to say though as Reinhart will want a raise and what are the ramifications of a move like that long term.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

We bought out Canes legend Marleau though

Taking on another team's mistake for a healthy return vs. getting out of your own mistake. That feels like a totally different decision, even though every cap dollar is equal.

 

[GoldiFox]

Then you're losing Bean, Foegele, Nino (to Seattle) and a 1st/2nd to get back Reinhart.

When you add losing Nino in the expansion draft does the deal come out favorable to just losing Bean to Seattle, and keeping Nino, Foegele, and a 1st?

What 7 are you protecting that you lose Nino? Maybe I am missing someone but in that case I'd have Reinhart, Aho, Staal, Teravainen, Niederreiter, Trocheck and Svechnikov. Geekie vs. Nino is a debate, but the argument there would be the same for Seattle taking Nino - that it opens $5.25 million in Cap space.

Bean + Foegele + Geekie/Nino + 1st or 2nd for Reinhart + getting past the expansion Draft. Not a bad price IMO. Just an example though.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Wouldn't it just be easier to put Gardiner on LTIR rather than buy him out?

Its easier but his injuries aren’t career ending

 

[Chrispy]

What 7 are you protecting that you lose Nino? Maybe I am missing someone but in that case I'd have Reinhart, Aho, Staal, Teravainen, Niederreiter, Trocheck and Svechnikov. Geekie vs. Nino is a debate, but the argument there would be the same for Seattle taking Nino - that it opens $5.25 million in Cap space.

Bean + Foegele + Geekie/Nino + 1st or 2nd for Reinhart + getting past the expansion Draft. Not a bad price IMO. Just an example though.

No, I think you're right; I had another in my head I cannot identify now, so I think I just miscounted it.

So instead it's Foegele + Bean + 1st/2nd + Geekie for Reinhart vs just losing Bean. Or as Boom Boom said, Foegele + 1st/2nd + Geekie for Reinhart (reducing Bean from both equations.) That does seem more palatable than with Nino in there for me.

 

[Svechhammer]

What 7 are you protecting that you lose Nino? Maybe I am missing someone but in that case I'd have Reinhart, Aho, Staal, Teravainen, Niederreiter, Trocheck and Svechnikov. Geekie vs. Nino is a debate, but the argument there would be the same for Seattle taking Nino - that it opens $5.25 million in Cap space.

Bean + Foegele + Geekie/Nino + 1st or 2nd for Reinhart + getting past the expansion Draft. Not a bad price IMO. Just an example though.

Unless we are looking to move Trochek, I don't see how we could bring in Reinhart without creating chaos with our lines. In reality, we're probably going to need to send out someone in our Top 6 if we are looking to bring in someone we are looking to slot into the Top 6.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Unless we are looking to move Trochek, I don't see how we could bring in Reinhart without creating chaos with our lines. In reality, we're probably going to need to send out someone in our Top 6 if we are looking to bring in someone we are looking to slot into the Top 6.

top 6 vs. top 9 are kinda irrelevant on this team, particularly how Rod mixes and matches throughout the season and how injuries occur, as we've seen this year with TT, Trocheck and now Nino.

Jordan Staal played only 30s less per game (so 1 shift) at ES than Trocheck. Foegele played only 40s / game less per shift at ES than Teravainen (so 1-2 shifts). There's not a whole lot of difference in terms of ES TOI, although usage (DZONE vs. OZONE starts will be different.

I think even with all the crap going on in Buffalo, they won't be too keen on a Bean, Foegele and late 1st offer though.

 

[spockBokk]

If they’re going to pull a fast one on Francis and move Bean prior to the expansion draft, I’d think it’d be to a team like the Devils or the Kings.

However, I'll say again, that I think they’ll end up protecting Bean and exposing Skjei and Gardiner, even though that may not some here would recommend, me included.

 

[bleedgreen]

Unless we are looking to move Trochek, I don't see how we could bring in Reinhart without creating chaos with our lines. In reality, we're probably going to need to send out someone in our Top 6 if we are looking to bring in someone we are looking to slot into the Top 6.

Well we’re probably going to have to trade for a defenseman too...so a forward may be going in that transaction.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well we’re probably going to have to trade for a defenseman too...so a forward may be going in that transaction.

True. As Dundon has shown, he doesn't have a lot of patience. The team made very few changes this off-season with the thought that with a shortened season, less changes might be beneficial as the team didn't need to "gel". Every other season though, he/Waddell have made more substantial changes.

If the Canes lose in round 2 again, I can see him wanting to make bigger changes than we saw last year.

 

[Svechhammer]

Well we’re probably going to have to trade for a defenseman too...so a forward may be going in that transaction.

Possibly. I guess all I'm trying to say is that when we're talking about trying to fit someone new under the cap when we bring them in, we also need to consider the very real possibility that anyone we bring in won't be an addition, but likely a replacement/upgrade, so we'll also be sending money out while we bring money in.

 

[DaveG]

True. As Dundon has shown, he doesn't have a lot of patience. The team made very few changes this off-season with the thought that with a shortened season, less changes might be beneficial as the team didn't need to "gel". Every other season though, he/Waddell have made more substantial changes.

If the Canes lose in round 2 again, I can see him wanting to make bigger changes than we saw last year.

I mean pretty hard for us not to do so. Honestly I still think we send our first to Seattle to take Gardner, and we use some of the cap cleared to sign someone like Coleman + re-up McGinn. Who knows what other shuffling might be going on. If we lose Hamilton I absolutely see us going hard at Dumba, and I wouldn't count out any prospect aside from Jarvis (who I legit expect to be on the roster) being moved out in that trade. Another name to keep an eye on since he's an RFA that plays both left and right (LHS though) would be Dunn.

I could see us rolling in to next season with something like this:

Svech - Aho - Turbo
Nino - Trocheck - Necas
Jarvis - Staal - Coleman
Foegele - Lorentz - McGinn
Geekie, Fast

Slavin - Dunn/Dumba/Hamilton
Skjei - Pesce
Bean - Haakanpa
Sellgren

Mrazek
Ned

And even that doesn't feel like enough of a shakeup for what to expect.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I mean pretty hard for us not to do so. Honestly I still think we send our first to Seattle to take Gardner, and we use some of the cap cleared to sign someone like Coleman + re-up McGinn. Who knows what other shuffling might be going on. If we lose Hamilton I absolutely see us going hard at Dumba, and I wouldn't count out any prospect aside from Jarvis (who I legit expect to be on the roster) being moved out in that trade. Another name to keep an eye on since he's an RFA that plays both left and right (LHS though) would be Dunn.

.

How much would you be willing to pay to get Francis to take Gardiner? Seems like a very late first isn’t nearly enough when he can just grab Bean or Skjei and not take Gardiner’s contract. In Francis’s eyes, Skjei’s value is probably a mid 1st and Bean’s is probably a very late first or a second, so they can get equivalent value (or near equivalent) without taking on Gardiner. We’ve done all the development on Bean so that’s attractive to Seattle.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Mrazek needs to get paid. I don't think this should be the team to do it. Nedeljkovic has played his way into a platoon role at least. They may be able to cut cap and/or term in free agency for the other half of it. This is an appealing opportunity for a goalie looking to rebuild his value for a bigger future payday. Raanta sticks out as a guy coming off a tough year. Andersen might fit that category as well.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Chris Johnston was on SDP over the weekend. He said the Leafs may possibly be looking under the couch cushions to try to scrape together enough for Dougie at $8.5M if they could move some folks out (he made the money work). Sounded like that would be the absolute max that they could afford or would offer. He reiterated the Canes last offer was around $6.5ish.

 

[cptjeff]

Chris Johnston was on SDP over the weekend. He said the Leafs may possibly be looking under the couch cushions to try to scrape together enough for Dougie at $8.5M if they could move some folks out (he made the money work). Sounded like that would be the absolute max that they could afford or would offer. He reiterated the Canes last offer was around $6.5ish.

If they're trying to fix the defense, that ain't the move, chief.

 

[DaveG]

Mrazek needs to get paid. I don't think this should be the team to do it. Nedeljkovic has played his way into a platoon role at least. They may be able to cut cap and/or term in free agency for the other half of it. This is an appealing opportunity for a goalie looking to rebuild his value for a bigger future payday. Raanta sticks out as a guy coming off a tough year. Andersen might fit that category as well.

Andersen is still going to get a reputation pay day similar to what Holtby got. Bernier and Ullmark are the 2 I'd be looking at if Mrazek moves on.

 

[MinJaBen]

Andersen is still going to get a reputation pay day similar to what Holtby got. Bernier and Ullmark are the 2 I'd be looking at if Mrazek moves on.

I wouldn’t be upset if we picked up Driedger when he leaves Florida. And I like Ullmark as well. That said, it will be Ned and Reimer. Ned because of his performance, and James because we can get him probably cheaper than this year.

 

[bleedgreen]

1b needs to be better than that if we’re going places. You can’t skimp on goaltending as a cup contender.

 

[Svechhammer]

Andersen is still going to get a reputation pay day similar to what Holtby got. Bernier and Ullmark are the 2 I'd be looking at if Mrazek moves on.

I'd be looking at Ullmark anyway. He was one of the few bright spots in a horrid Buffalo team this year. He has potential to go places

 

[MinJaBen]

1b needs to be better than that if we’re going places. You can’t skimp on goaltending as a cup contender.

Yeah, we can't get anywhere with his record this year....

GP GS W L T OT

22

21

15

5

0

2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]