Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Probably 10 cities where people swear a lot.

So we can only trade him to Salt Lake City

 

[Buffdog]

I don't think the question is simple as who will play 1C for us in 2023.

To me, it is if Scheifele is not our 1C in 2024 and beyond, by his choice, what are we really losing by moving on from him for a return at the trade deadline?

One of the best ways to keep this team from climbing the ladder over the next 5 years is to piss away a return with real potential to help us get better.

Those returns with "real potential" don't always make us better.

In 2016, we traded Ladd (and Harrison) for Dano and a 1st which ended up being used to trade up to pick Stanley.

In other words, neither piece did jack shit for the org. It's not uncommon when dealing with late 1sts and B prospects

What we are losing by trading him at the deadline could be at least some playoff gates, and potentially a series win or unlikely deep run. Those have value to the org (and fans) beyond asset management

For the record, I'm not sure where I sit on rhe issue. Just trying to shed some light on the other side of the argument

 

[Flair Hay]

Those returns with "real potential" don't always make us better.

In 2016, we traded Ladd (and Harrison) for Dano and a 1st which ended up being used to trade up to pick Stanley.

In other words, neither piece did jack shit for the org. It's not uncommon when dealing with late 1sts and B prospects

What we are losing by trading him at the deadline could be at least some playoff gates, and potentially a series win or unlikely deep run. Those have value to the org (and fans) beyond asset management

For the record, I'm not sure where I sit on rhe issue. Just trying to shed some light on the other side of the argument

I agree with everything you said.

I think it is short sighted chasing playoff revenue today when we have a pretty mediocre team the last 4 years.

Not to mention we could be doing this with two guys, not just one...

I'm not sure our organization is in the position to be scoffing at a couple late firsts. But it's not my call, I'll sleep at night and cheer for the team either way.

 

[DRW204]

I don't think the question is simple as who will play 1C for us in 2023.

To me, it is if Scheifele is not our 1C in 2024 and beyond, by his choice, what are we really losing by moving on from him for a return at the trade deadline?

One of the best ways to keep this team from climbing the ladder over the next 5 years is to piss away a return with real potential to help us get better.

if the jets are out of it at the TDL they will move him. i don't think any one disputes that.

however, it seems like they want to compete for the POs/Cup for the year. and scheifele - short of any suggestions of superior options rather than something as vague or ridiculous as "that guy" - is still one of the top-centers on this team and the only w/ top-line or top-6 C pedigree. so yes, given the premise they want to compete the question is who would be our 1C in for 2023?

if the jets wanted to rebuild for sure trade both helle and scheifele, but doesn't seem like that's what they want to do that right now.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Scheif could end up signing an extension tomorrow so who knows really right

 

[Gabe Kupari]

As for Helle... if im Chevy I'm trying to maximize my return I ain't trade Helle if what the other team is offering isn't what I'd want, at trade deadline they both if not signed to extensions (still possible) they both get minimum 1st plus prospect and likely a damn good one. Look what copp got. 55 and 37 both get that at the deadline plus. Why trade them now for quarters when you can get a dollar plus around the deadline

 

[KingBogo]

if the jets are out of it at the TDL they will move him. i don't think any one disputes that.

however, it seems like they want to compete for the POs/Cup for the year. and scheifele - short of any suggestions of superior options rather than something as vague or ridiculous as "that guy" - is still one of the top-centers on this team and the only w/ top-line or top-6 C pedigree. so yes, given the premise they want to compete the question is who would be our 1C in for 2023?

if the jets wanted to rebuild for sure trade both helle and scheifele, but doesn't seem like that's what they want to do that right now.

I think this is starting to become obvious. The Jets will most likely lay it all out on the line this season. There will be no TDL deals if we are in contention. Chevy has been more than willing to trade 1st round picks for players far lower on the food chain than Helly and Scheifele in the past, so why does he move his 2 UFAs in the same position?

 

[JetsFan815]

I think this is starting to become obvious. The Jets will most likely lay it all out on the line this season. There will be no TDL deals if we are in contention. Chevy has been more than willing to trade 1st round picks for players far lower on the food chain than Helly and Scheifele in the past, so why does he move his 2 UFAs in the same position?

Because when they moved 1st round picks in the past they were in the middle of their contention window with many years of contention in the future and already having a bunch of young players to last them for the next several years with their 1C, top-6, #1 goalie set for over half a decade. Situation is not the same anymore. They are not gonna have a 1 or 2C next season, no #1 goalie, top-6 not looking good with Ehlers wanting out in a year once his deal is done (there is no way he is re-signing here).

The Jets are looking at a wasteland for a long time if they let these guys walk for nothing. They will also become the laughing stock of the league like CBJ did when they did the same with Panarin/Duchene/Bob and set their franchise back many years.

I'd like to think Chevy is a reasonable NHL mind, if not, hopefully the players shit the bed and take it out of his hands.

 

[JetsFan815]

if the jets wanted to rebuild for sure trade both helle and scheifele, but doesn't seem like that's what they want to do that right now.

They don't have choice. They are rebuilding anyway in 2024 when these guys walk. The only choice they have is whether they go into the summer of 2024 with two extra 1sts, a second and a couple of decent prospects to hopefully help them get back into the playoffs a in couple of years or if they go in with nothing and set the rebuild back a few years.

It's a choice between making the best of your circumstances or becoming Coyotes North and yes they could become the Coyotes north if they don't have picks to get the next generation and can't sign any players in UFA.

Also if the Jets don't want to rebuild, the best way to make that happen is get some assets back for these guys and flip them for some help now next summer. You don't have to make those picks, you can trade them for now NHL players.

This is not a question of rebuild or not. By getting something for these guys you preserve the option to either rebuild or try to make the playoffs (by flipping the picks in those trade for NHL players). By letting them walk, you essentially commit to rebuild without any assets to speed it up.

 

[DRW204]

They don't have choice. They are rebuilding anyway in 2024 when these guys walk. The only choice they have is whether they go into the summer of 2024 with two extra 1sts, a second and a couple of decent prospects to hopefully help them get back into the playoffs a in couple of years or if they go in with nothing and set the rebuild back a few years.

It's a choice between making the best of your circumstances or becoming Coyotes North and yes they could become the Coyotes north if they don't have picks to get the next generation and can't sign any players in UFA.

Also if the Jets don't want to rebuild, the best way to make that happen is get some assets back for these guys and flip them for some help now next summer. You don't have to make those picks, you can trade them for now NHL players.

This is not a question of rebuild or not. By getting something for these guys you preserve the option to either rebuild or try to make the playoffs (by flipping the picks in those trade for NHL players). By letting them walk, you essentially commit to rebuild without any assets to speed it up.

Yes everyone knows, including the Jets. It's been discussed to death on here. Now given all that, do the transactions or communication from the team strike you they want to rebuild this offseason?

 

[KingBogo]

Because when they moved 1st round picks in the past they were in the middle of their contention window with many years of contention in the future and already having a bunch of young players to last them for the next several years with their 1C, top-6, #1 goalie set for over half a decade. Situation is not the same anymore. They are not gonna have a 1 or 2C next season, no #1 goalie, top-6 not looking good with Ehlers wanting out in a year once his deal is done (there is no way he is re-signing here).

The Jets are looking at a wasteland for a long time if they let these guys walk for nothing. They will also become the laughing stock of the league like CBJ did when they did the same with Panarin/Duchene/Bob and set their franchise back many years.

I'd like to think Chevy is a reasonable NHL mind, if not, hopefully the players shit the bed and take it out of his hands.

Absolutely nothing the Jets have done this offseason would suggest they have any intention of rebuilding. Their marketing to fans has been signing players and new options to buy tickets. My best guess is they are working hard on extensions to Helly and Scheifele and would like at least one of those signings to coincide with the run up to camp post Labour Day. That may not come to pass due to those players looking elsewhere, but Chipman knows he can't market winning and then sell off players mid season if he wants the people that he is marketing tickets to, to keep buying tickets.

 

[Whileee]

Absolutely nothing the Jets have done this offseason would suggest they have any intention of rebuilding. Their marketing to fans has been signing players and new options to buy tickets. My best guess is they are working hard on extensions to Helly and Scheifele and would like at least one of those signings to coincide with the run up to camp post Labour Day. That may not come to pass due to those players looking elsewhere, but Chipman knows he can't market winning and then sell off players mid season if he wants the people that he is marketing tickets to, to keep buying tickets.

I think it's clear that the Jets aren't rebuilding. Getting Vilardi and two more NHLers in the PLD trade was a clear signal of the intention to keep a strong roster while their crop of prospects develop into NHL roles.

I think the Jets would like to keep Scheifele and Hellebuyck longer term, and transition the roster to younger talent around the core. But there are signals that neither 55 nor 37 want to sign long term with the Jets. If not, I think Chevy will look for "hockey trades", focused around younger players that can fill roster roles (like a young F and G), along with some futures (picks). I'd expect the trade to come earlier than the TDL, as soon as a good trade emerges. The Jets do have latitude to retain salary on both 55 and 37, so they won't have to wait right to the TDL to trade them to teams that have tight cap situations.

 

[KingBogo]

I think it's clear that the Jets aren't rebuilding. Getting Vilardi and two more NHLers in the PLD trade was a clear signal of the intention to keep a strong roster while their crop of prospects develop into NHL roles.

I think the Jets would like to keep Scheifele and Hellebuyck longer term, and transition the roster to younger talent around the core. But there are signals that neither 55 nor 37 want to sign long term with the Jets. If not, I think Chevy will look for "hockey trades", focused around younger players that can fill roster roles (like a young F and G), along with some futures (picks). I'd expect the trade to come earlier than the TDL, as soon as a good trade emerges. The Jets do have latitude to retain salary on both 55 and 37, so they won't have to wait right to the TDL to trade them to teams that have tight cap situations.

I've been expecting any trades for Helly and Scheifele will not be futures only trades so I don't expect anything at the TDL when teams are only looking to move futures for now players. I also don't see the organization trying to sell winning to the market place and then make a purposeful effort to bottom out at the TDL. Probably their best case scenario is a team struggling out of the gate is willing to move younger now players for one of them and the other is willing to sign long term.

 

[surixon]

Absolutely nothing the Jets have done this offseason would suggest they have any intention of rebuilding. Their marketing to fans has been signing players and new options to buy tickets. My best guess is they are working hard on extensions to Helly and Scheifele and would like at least one of those signings to coincide with the run up to camp post Labour Day. That may not come to pass due to those players looking elsewhere, but Chipman knows he can't market winning and then sell off players mid season if he wants the people that he is marketing tickets to, to keep buying tickets.

Interesting, we shall see if a big deal get announced around that time. My guess is if one gets done it's Scheifele.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

"the guy"
Excellent insight.

You asked. That's the answer whether you like it or not. If you want something more specific we have to look at potential landing spots team by team. It isn't like that hasn't been done to death.

My point, with that answer to your question, is simply that the landing spot for Helle has to be the one that offers the best C.

How about Buffalo? Their top 6C is set with Thompson and Cozens. How about Mittelstadt?

 

[DRW204]

You asked. That's the answer whether you like it or not. If you want something more specific we have to look at potential landing spots team by team. It isn't like that hasn't been done to death.

My point, with that answer to your question, is simply that the landing spot for Helle has to be the one that offers the best C.

How about Buffalo? Their top 6C is set with Thompson and Cozens. How about Mittelstadt?

yea i asked the OP who and you decided to respond with "the guy"... ummm yea give a specific name that's available. otherwise thanks for the complete nothing-burger of a post? and still waiting for the top-line C that will be traded to us b/c middlestadt has not shown that

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Those returns with "real potential" don't always make us better.

In 2016, we traded Ladd (and Harrison) for Dano and a 1st which ended up being used to trade up to pick Stanley.

In other words, neither piece did jack shit for the org. It's not uncommon when dealing with late 1sts and B prospects

What we are losing by trading him at the deadline could be at least some playoff gates, and potentially a series win or unlikely deep run. Those have value to the org (and fans) beyond asset management

For the record, I'm not sure where I sit on rhe issue. Just trying to shed some light on the other side of the argument

Sure, and that needs to be evaluated as the TD gets close. The possibly difficult decision at that time is the best reason for not leaving it till then.

IMO the best reason for leaving it that long is not the potential of a few home PO games. It is that a really strong season might bring about a change of heart from Helle and Scheif. IDK whether or not Chevy has a good feel for that possibility or not. Or even if there is such a possibility.

That potential return is real. The fact that it could be squandered is another issue. The chance of making the PO can be squandered too. You could miss by a point. You could get in and be pushed aside without a whimper in the 1st rd.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

if the jets are out of it at the TDL they will move him. i don't think any one disputes that.

however, it seems like they want to compete for the POs/Cup for the year. and scheifele - short of any suggestions of superior options rather than something as vague or ridiculous as "that guy" - is still one of the top-centers on this team and the only w/ top-line or top-6 C pedigree. so yes, given the premise they want to compete the question is who would be our 1C in for 2023?

if the jets wanted to rebuild for sure trade both helle and scheifele, but doesn't seem like that's what they want to do that right now.

Yes it does seem that they want to be as competitive as possible this year. The wisdom of that, either short term or longer, is questionable. That is regardless of whether you are looking at it from a purely hockey POV or a business POV.

The F corps is going to be deeper this year but that probably won't make us a lot better than we were last year. Maybe we can move up to WC1. That will still see us facing a stronger team in the first rd and probably quick elimination. Maybe we can finish 3rd in the Central and get a more even matchup in the first rd. Getting a series win would be nice but would it be enough to start packing the place again? What about the year after with Scheif and Helle (and maybe a few others) gone without return? Maybe the powers that be prefer entering the re(whatever you want to call it) on the high note of a PO series win rather than the high note of the potential return on those players. Maybe they are counting on that energy carrying them through the early part of the next phase. More likely they will continue to consider making the PO as success enough. I don't think that mediocrity will sell tickets very well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

yea i asked the OP who and you decided to respond with "the guy"... ummm yea give a specific name that's available. otherwise thanks for the complete nothing-burger of a post? and still waiting for the top-line C that will be traded to us b/c middlestadt has not shown that

What's the list of who is available? Who makes that list? On what authority? They are all available under the right circumstances for the right price.

I'm told that Mittelstadt played 3C for Sabres last year. He scored 15 G, 59 pts in that role. Any player who can do that should be capable of moving up to the top 6.

I don't think any proven 1C is going to be traded for Hellebuyck. Not unless there is something seriously wrong with him, like over the hill, no term, won't extend here, poison in the room, etc. If that is the only thing acceptable then we are left with squeezing one more year out of our expiring assets and then take whatever the future holds. Is that something you like?

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Dillon
Demelo
Helle
Nino
Scheif

Who are guys with 1 year until ufa.

So you can talk about more than Helle (what team has the $$$ anyways for him long term if he wants 9 9.5 million)

Facebook rumors and you know how reliable those are says Patrick Kane gonna sign with a western Canadian team . Jets were mentioned lol

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Absolutely nothing the Jets have done this offseason would suggest they have any intention of rebuilding. Their marketing to fans has been signing players and new options to buy tickets. My best guess is they are working hard on extensions to Helly and Scheifele and would like at least one of those signings to coincide with the run up to camp post Labour Day. That may not come to pass due to those players looking elsewhere, but Chipman knows he can't market winning and then sell off players mid season if he wants the people that he is marketing tickets to, to keep buying tickets.

Does he also know that he can't market winning and then not win?

Is this the NBA where every team is all new every year? No plan, no year over year progress toward a goal? Just throw together the best roster you can each off-season and hope for the best? The NHL isn't structured that way, thank gawd.

Edit: Agree with your post. Jets are not looking like anything else. I hope they are successful in signing Helle and Scheif. There may be more reason for optimism than we have generally been assuming. I hope Chevy has some reason to believe it can be done.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I've been expecting any trades for Helly and Scheifele will not be futures only trades so I don't expect anything at the TDL when teams are only looking to move futures for now players. I also don't see the organization trying to sell winning to the market place and then make a purposeful effort to bottom out at the TDL. Probably their best case scenario is a team struggling out of the gate is willing to move younger now players for one of them and the other is willing to sign long term.

Plans need to be flexible.
Preference 1. Sign both to medium term contracts. 2. Hockey trades, help now. 3. At the TD, futures. With graduations in between, like if 1 signs and the other doesn't.

Dillon
Demelo
Helle
Nino
Scheif

Who are guys with 1 year until ufa.

So you can talk about more than Helle (what team has the $$$ anyways for him long term if he wants 9 9.5 million)

Facebook rumors and you know how reliable those are says Patrick Kane gonna sign with a western Canadian team . Jets were mentioned lol

Add Brossoit to that list. 6

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Plans need to be flexible.
Preference 1. Sign both to medium term contracts. 2. Hockey trades, help now. 3. At the TD, futures. With graduations in between, like if 1 signs and the other doesn't.



Add Brossoit to that list. 6

I honestly thought Nino and DeMelo would have signed extensions by now... both are so valuable for developing prospects imo

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I honestly thought Nino and DeMelo would have signed extensions by now... both are so valuable for developing prospects imo

DeMelo in particular. But

 

[tbcwpg]

Because when they moved 1st round picks in the past they were in the middle of their contention window with many years of contention in the future and already having a bunch of young players to last them for the next several years with their 1C, top-6, #1 goalie set for over half a decade. Situation is not the same anymore. They are not gonna have a 1 or 2C next season, no #1 goalie, top-6 not looking good with Ehlers wanting out in a year once his deal is done (there is no way he is re-signing here).

The Jets are looking at a wasteland for a long time if they let these guys walk for nothing. They will also become the laughing stock of the league like CBJ did when they did the same with Panarin/Duchene/Bob and set their franchise back many years.

I'd like to think Chevy is a reasonable NHL mind, if not, hopefully the players shit the bed and take it out of his hands.

The team is looking at a long rebuild without them, if they move them for futures anyway. It boggles my mind that people think the Jets can just do some quick 2 or 3 year turnaround and not moving 2 30+ year olds is the difference between success and disaster