Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[DRW204]

What's the list of who is available? Who makes that list? On what authority? They are all available under the right circumstances for the right price.

I'm told that Mittelstadt played 3C for Sabres last year. He scored 15 G, 59 pts in that role. Any player who can do that should be capable of moving up to the top 6.

I don't think any proven 1C is going to be traded for Hellebuyck. Not unless there is something seriously wrong with him, like over the hill, no term, won't extend here, poison in the room, etc. If that is the only thing acceptable then we are left with squeezing one more year out of our expiring assets and then take whatever the future holds. Is that something you like?

Youre the one posting about them wheeling and dealing for some supposed guy as a 1C. So you have zero. Got it. As usual thanks for the informative discussion.

 

[JetsFan815]

The team is looking at a long rebuild without them, if they move them for futures anyway. It boggles my mind that people think the Jets can just do some quick 2 or 3 year turnaround and not moving 2 30+ year olds is the difference between success and disaster

If it's a rebuild than there is a vast canyon of difference between starting a rebuild with 2 extra 1sts, a 2nd and a couple of decent prospects vs nothing. Those assets should amount to 1-2 NHL players in a few years, maybe more if you get lucky. No one can predict how a rebuild will go but most hockey fans if their team was going into a rebuild would rather have 4 good assets as opposed to 0. That gives you some hope of having a decent team by the time McGroarty/Barlow/Lambert etc's ELC's expire and help lock those guys up long term as opposed to them seeing nothing around them and Trouba'ing their way to UFA.

And that is if they chose to do a rebuild, if they move the 2 30+ year olds, they can use those assets to acquire NHL players with term for help now if they intend to try to be a playoff team.

Not getting anything for those two is a disaster for a team like Winnipeg that can't sign Free Agents and is on a lot of NTCs.

 

[Flair Hay]

If it's a rebuild than there is a vast canyon of difference between starting a rebuild with 2 extra 1sts, a 2nd and a couple of decent prospects vs nothing. Those assets should amount to 1-2 NHL players in a few years, maybe more if you get lucky. No one can predict how a rebuild will go but most hockey fans if their team was going into a rebuild would rather have 4 good assets as opposed to 0. That gives you some hope of having a decent team by the time McGroarty/Barlow/Lambert etc's ELC's expire and help lock those guys up long term as opposed to them seeing nothing around them and Trouba'ing their way to UFA.

And that is if they chose to do a rebuild, if they move the 2 30+ year olds, they can use those assets to acquire NHL players with term for help now if they intend to try to be a playoff team.

Not getting anything for those two is a disaster for a team like Winnipeg that can't sign Free Agents and is on a lot of NTCs.

The ironic part of this is getting futures back for a Scheif and Helle could be the pieces we would need to avoid having to rebuild...

Use the returns from those deals to go out and find a 1C or 1D and sign a goalie and things aren't looking so grim all of a sudden.

As for Helle... if im Chevy I'm trying to maximize my return I ain't trade Helle if what the other team is offering isn't what I'd want, at trade deadline they both if not signed to extensions (still possible) they both get minimum 1st plus prospect and likely a damn good one. Look what copp got. 55 and 37 both get that at the deadline plus. Why trade them now for quarters when you can get a dollar plus around the deadline

Agreed, cap considerations is limiting the returns right now

I think this is starting to become obvious. The Jets will most likely lay it all out on the line this season. There will be no TDL deals if we are in contention. Chevy has been more than willing to trade 1st round picks for players far lower on the food chain than Helly and Scheifele in the past, so why does he move his 2 UFAs in the same position?

Because we were an awesome team then. We are not now.

 

[Flair Hay]

I've been expecting any trades for Helly and Scheifele will not be futures only trades so I don't expect anything at the TDL when teams are only looking to move futures for now players. I also don't see the organization trying to sell winning to the market place and then make a purposeful effort to bottom out at the TDL. Probably their best case scenario is a team struggling out of the gate is willing to move younger now players for one of them and the other is willing to sign long term.

Folks buying tickets know what the Jets are, let's be real. No one is under the impression we are more than a middle of the road team. It's about supporting the team, and the club has done a great job increasing flexibility for people to do that.

I agree they will exhaust all options for a hockey trade type deal first.

I honestly thought Nino and DeMelo would have signed extensions by now... both are so valuable for developing prospects imo

I've done a few cap friendly a couple years out.

Wings are going to be very crowded with Rutger and Barlow likely on the club by 25-26

DeMelo I imagine we give him a 50% raise for 3 or 4 years and he stays

 

[Flair Hay]

Yes it does seem that they want to be as competitive as possible this year. The wisdom of that, either short term or longer, is questionable. That is regardless of whether you are looking at it from a purely hockey POV or a business POV.

The F corps is going to be deeper this year but that probably won't make us a lot better than we were last year. Maybe we can move up to WC1. That will still see us facing a stronger team in the first rd and probably quick elimination. Maybe we can finish 3rd in the Central and get a more even matchup in the first rd. Getting a series win would be nice but would it be enough to start packing the place again? What about the year after with Scheif and Helle (and maybe a few others) gone without return? Maybe the powers that be prefer entering the re(whatever you want to call it) on the high note of a PO series win rather than the high note of the potential return on those players. Maybe they are counting on that energy carrying them through the early part of the next phase. More likely they will continue to consider making the PO as success enough. I don't think that mediocrity will sell tickets very well.

Yup, agreed Mort.

Focusing the direction of your team with decision making year by year is how you end up as the Vancouver of the past 7 or 8 years. I still don't believe the org is that short sighted. I can't lol

 

[tbcwpg]

If it's a rebuild than there is a vast canyon of difference between starting a rebuild with 2 extra 1sts, a 2nd and a couple of decent prospects vs nothing. Those assets should amount to 1-2 NHL players in a few years, maybe more if you get lucky. No one can predict how a rebuild will go but most hockey fans if their team was going into a rebuild would rather have 4 good assets as opposed to 0. That gives you some hope of having a decent team by the time McGroarty/Barlow/Lambert etc's ELC's expire and help lock those guys up long term as opposed to them seeing nothing around them and Trouba'ing their way to UFA.

And that is if they chose to do a rebuild, if they move the 2 30+ year olds, they can use those assets to acquire NHL players with term for help now if they intend to try to be a playoff team.

Not getting anything for those two is a disaster for a team like Winnipeg that can't sign Free Agents and is on a lot of NTCs.

I don't think the difference is best described as a "vast canyon". If we look at the 2022 draft (2023 is a bit unfair due to its power level), I don't think we're seeing difference makers there. Sure, they might end up being NHL players, but the teams that win generally have 1 or 2 high end players driving the team. The Jets have Morrissey long term who's a solid 1D (not superstar but top 2 on most teams) and that's about it.

But wait! you cry, we can flip those assets for the top line players we need! I'd say which top centres or defencemen are available, signed long term or open to extending long term in Winnipeg, at an age compatible with the rest of the Jets core moving forward? Probably none. Teams trade potential top centres or top defencemen as an absolute last resort. With the cap anticipated to rise sharply, there's going to be fewer opportunities to take advantage of teams needing ro move money.

Trouba and Dubois didn't short term their way to UFA because they saw nothing around them.

I'm not saying that moving Scheifele and Hellebuyck is a bad idea. I just think people are vastly overestimating the impact a return from those two would have on a potential rebuilding or "retooling" here. It's going to be very long either way.

 

[ps241]

I don't think the difference is best described as a "vast canyon". If we look at the 2022 draft (2023 is a bit unfair due to its power level), I don't think we're seeing difference makers there. Sure, they might end up being NHL players, but the teams that win generally have 1 or 2 high end players driving the team. The Jets have Morrissey long term who's a solid 1D (not superstar but top 2 on most teams) and that's about it.

But wait! you cry, we can flip those assets for the top line players we need! I'd say which top centres or defencemen are available, signed long term or open to extending long term in Winnipeg, at an age compatible with the rest of the Jets core moving forward? Probably none. Teams trade potential top centres or top defencemen as an absolute last resort. With the cap anticipated to rise sharply, there's going to be fewer opportunities to take advantage of teams needing ro move money.

Trouba and Dubois didn't short term their way to UFA because they saw nothing around them.

I'm not saying that moving Scheifele and Hellebuyck is a bad idea. I just think people are vastly overestimating the impact a return from those two would have on a potential rebuilding or "retooling" here. It's going to be very long either way.

Mark C and Chevy are in a tough spot. They are losing ticket buying customer demand as they are sunsetting out of this core’s era. They don’t want to take a step back, but their current offering is losing support. I assume they wanted to sign or trade Scheifele and Helle for players that can keep them competitive now but that hasn’t come together……yet.

None of us really know how the season will unfold as far as asset management goes but it will be interesting to watch play out.

 

[JetsFan815]

I don't think the difference is best described as a "vast canyon". If we look at the 2022 draft (2023 is a bit unfair due to its power level), I don't think we're seeing difference makers there. Sure, they might end up being NHL players, but the teams that win generally have 1 or 2 high end players driving the team. The Jets have Morrissey long term who's a solid 1D (not superstar but top 2 on most teams) and that's about it.

I'm not saying that moving Scheifele and Hellebuyck is a bad idea. I just think people are vastly overestimating the impact a return from those two would have on a potential rebuilding or "retooling" here. It's going to be very long either way.

Two 1st round picks plus a 2nd plus 2 prospects, those assets combined (if the Jets do use them for a rebuild) gives the Jets a chance to have at bare minimum 1-2 NHL players. That is the floor on that return based on the probability of drafting NHL players in those slots plus the probability of the prospects turning out, that is not the ceiling on that return. The Stars drafted their #1 goalie, #1LW via mid 1sts early 2nd round picks in the same draft, the Jets could have drafted Aho in the pick they got back for Kane, the Jets could have drafted DeBrincat/Girard with the pick they got back for Ladd, maybe these picks turn into that for the Jets or maybe they don't either way there is a non-zero probability of one or more of these 1sts turning into a star player and a very high probability of getting atleast 1-2 servicable NHL players out of these assets in a few years. Whereas the probabilty to turning 55/37 into a star player = 0 and the probability of getting even 1 NHL player for them is 0 if they walk for nothing.

Teams don't win by just having 1-2 high end players on the team. They win by having high end players AND solid depth, that depth means 2nd liners, 3rd liners, mid pairing D and so on. The only way to acquire top impact talent AND depth in a market like Winnipeg is to draft it or trade for it in exchange for expiring assets.

I don't even care if all the assets the Jets acquire in these trade end up as busts. The results are not the main point here in the context of the discussion of the fate of 55/37, the process is. No trade is going to guarantee a "quick turnaround" or "massive impact". All you can do is make moves that give you the best shot at improving your team bit by bit. The Copp trade has resulted in the Jets having their best C prospect, best D prospect and 2nd best goalie prospect, that trade could have busted as well but it would guaranteed have busted if the Jets had never made the trade to give themselves those swings for fear of "people overestimating the impact of a Copp trade".

If the Jets handle the process correctly and mess it up that is on the circumstances and the drafting but atleast gives one some confidence in the management's ability to handle assets. If they f*** up the process then they are the Vancouver Canucks and there are not many situations worse than being the Canucks.

But wait! you cry, we can flip those assets for the top line players we need! I'd say which top centres or defencemen are available, signed long term or open to extending long term in Winnipeg, at an age compatible with the rest of the Jets core moving forward? Probably none. Teams trade potential top centres or top defencemen as an absolute last resort. With the cap anticipated to rise sharply, there's going to be fewer opportunities to take advantage of teams needing ro move money.

If the Jets don't want to rebuild and want to compete (as you have been saying all offseason) then the only logical choice is to flip them for assets which can be flipped for NHL impact players. It is not what I would do due to it being a low ceiling move but it is the only valid option if they want to try to make the playoffs for the gate revenue.

The Jets will have many holes coming up, not just 1C and 1D. And those 1st round picks will go a long way to get players to fill those holes. For example those 1sts could be used to get a Swayman type player to fill the net, which is going to be the Jets #1 need next summer if they do want to compete. The other remaining assets could be used to bolster forward depth which is sorely lacking. Either way it gives the Jets flexibility to make moves if they so choose and if a player they like becomes available. The alternative is without having any assets to trade, scraping the bottom of the pile at FA next summer when you are not going to get anything good.

Trouba and Dubois didn't short term their way to UFA because they saw nothing around them.

There are many reasons why young players leave a team and having no supporting cast to give them a chance of winning, esp in a small market like Winnipeg is one of them. If the Jets are as bare as they look right now by the time some of the current top prospects are getting their 2nd contracts, it becomes an option for them to try to go somewhere else to win if the club doesn't have a supporting cast for them to play with. It is much easier to sell them on a new contract if there is a pipeline of promising players coming up rather than being down 5 assets just to watch 55/37 for another 20 games 4-5 years ago.

 

[fmrdh]

LAK looks like they need LHD

Stanley / Chisholm

Fagemo?
Spence?

 

[KingBogo]

Mark C and Chevy are in a tough spot. They are losing ticket buying customer demand as they are sunsetting out of this core’s era. They don’t want to take a step back, but their current offering is losing support. I assume they wanted to sign or trade Scheifele and Helle for players that can keep them competitive now but that hasn’t come together……yet.

None of us really know how the season will unfold as far as asset management goes but it will be interesting to watch play out.

I'm hoping for a relatively quick ending to the saga now that we are getting closer to the season, and agreed Chipman and Chevy are in a tight spot. I really don't think they have any desire to move Helly and Scheifele for picks and prospects, now in season or at the TDL. Chevy struck gold with PLD, but age made him more movable. I'm guessing they still have hope that an extension and/or hockey trade happens with 37/55.

Those that think Chevy and more so Chipman will move 55 and 37 at the TDL are barking at the wrong tree IMO. That would be the final cratering out of their ST base. There is a lot of ticket fatigue right now with the remaining ST holders. Most feel like they have been carrying the financial burden for 12 years now and will take a financial breather on any rebuild. Most will still be fans, but why buy 41 + 3 X 2 tickets over the next few seasons with little opportunity to recoup any money on the single game market other than for original 6 teams. If we are going to transition out the current core for a new core, much easier to just buy the odd ticket to preferred games at a much cheaper cost, and then jump back in 5-7 years down the road if the current prospects and future picks gel as a competitive team.

 

[Whileee]

I'm hoping for a relatively quick ending to the saga now that we are getting closer to the season, and agreed Chipman and Chevy are in a tight spot. I really don't think they have any desire to move Helly and Scheifele for picks and prospects, now in season or at the TDL. Chevy struck gold with PLD, but age made him more movable. I'm guessing they still have hope that an extension and/or hockey trade happens with 37/55.

Those that think Chevy and more so Chipman will move 55 and 37 at the TDL are barking at the wrong tree IMO. That would be the final cratering out of their ST base. There is a lot of ticket fatigue right now with the remaining ST holders. Most feel like they have been carrying the financial burden for 12 years now and will take a financial breather on any rebuild. Most will still be fans, but why buy 41 + 3 X 2 tickets over the next few seasons with little opportunity to recoup any money on the single game market other than for original 6 teams. If we are going to transition out the current core for a new core, much easier to just buy the odd ticket to preferred games at a much cheaper cost, and then jump back in 5-7 years down the road if the current prospects and future picks gel as a competitive team.

Agree about the balance of now vs the future. As a current season ticket holder, I'm obviously more invested in the Jets prospect next season than I am for several years in the future, when picks and prospects from a 55 and 37 trade might contribute. If I wasn't paying for season tickets, I might have a different timeline.

I expect Chevy and Chipman to continue to try to put a contending team on the ice most seasons, with an occasional reset when talent ages out, etc. So I would see them trying to build a playoff team this season, and change direction if the team doesn't look very competitive. If that means that they don't get the trade returns for 55 and 37, then maybe they switch to a cheaper, youth-oriented team for a couple of seasons.

The ideal scenario is obviously a PLD sort of trade with "now" talent and some future assets, but those trades are hard to make.

 

[ps241]

I'm hoping for a relatively quick ending to the saga now that we are getting closer to the season, and agreed Chipman and Chevy are in a tight spot. I really don't think they have any desire to move Helly and Scheifele for picks and prospects, now in season or at the TDL. Chevy struck gold with PLD, but age made him more movable. I'm guessing they still have hope that an extension and/or hockey trade happens with 37/55.

Those that think Chevy and more so Chipman will move 55 and 37 at the TDL are barking at the wrong tree IMO. That would be the final cratering out of their ST base. There is a lot of ticket fatigue right now with the remaining ST holders. Most feel like they have been carrying the financial burden for 12 years now and will take a financial breather on any rebuild. Most will still be fans, but why buy 41 + 3 X 2 tickets over the next few seasons with little opportunity to recoup any money on the single game market other than for original 6 teams. If we are going to transition out the current core for a new core, much easier to just buy the odd ticket to preferred games at a much cheaper cost, and then jump back in 5-7 years down the road if the current prospects and future picks gel as a competitive team.

Not a bad point.

It will be interesting to see what happens to that same group of season ticket holders next season if we churn 55 and 37. This team hasn’t been a legit threat since 2019 which has already impacted demand. Next step down could possibly come as soon as next season but I am getting ahead of myself.

 

[drumzan]

Agree about the balance of now vs the future. As a current season ticket holder, I'm obviously more invested in the Jets prospect next season than I am for several years in the future, when picks and prospects from a 55 and 37 trade might contribute. If I wasn't paying for season tickets, I might have a different timeline.

I expect Chevy and Chipman to continue to try to put a contending team on the ice most seasons, with an occasional reset when talent ages out, etc. So I would see them trying to build a playoff team this season, and change direction if the team doesn't look very competitive. If that means that they don't get the trade returns for 55 and 37, then maybe they switch to a cheaper, youth-oriented team for a couple of seasons.

The ideal scenario is obviously a PLD sort of trade with "now" talent and some future assets, but those trades are hard to make.

There’s nothing stopping Chevy/Chipman from acquiring draft picks for Helle and/or Scheifele then flipping the picks to another team in a separate trade.

Pigeon holing yourself into hockey trades only is silly.

 

[Whileee]

Not a bad point.

It will be interesting to see what happens to that same group of season ticket holders next season if we churn 55 and 37. This team hasn’t been a legit threat since 2019 which has already impacted demand. Next step down could possibly come as soon as next season but I am getting ahead of myself.

Much emphasis on Jets' ST sales has been focused on team performance, but I think it's also been highly affected by Covid and the economy (particularly inflation). The "couchification" of society (i.e. tendency to stay home and work and live from a couch) has accentuated the challenge of selling tickets to live events. Note below how ticket sales to movie theatres plummeted, and haven't recovered post-Covid.

I highly doubt that most ticket buyers (especially ST buyers) will take the stance that they will be happy to continue to pay high prices for a non-competitive team until a rebuild is completed years into the future. That's perhaps appealing to fans who aren't investing much in tickets, but not to many who are current ST buyers.

I think the Jets' organization might need to go through a dip in the standings for a few seasons at some point, but they'll have to cut salary and other costs substantially and manage with low ticket sales. More importantly, they'll have to hope that ticket buyers don't retreat permanently into "couch fans", making the Winnipeg market untenable.

I think that's why the Jets have been reluctant to let the team dive at this sensitive juncture, and have been putting direct emphasis on expanding the corporate ticket base. They see the overall trends in live entertainment, and the challenge of getting individual fans to make relatively big investments in Jets' ticket purchases.

 

[Whileee]

There’s nothing stopping Chevy/Chipman from acquiring draft picks for Helle and/or Scheifele then flipping the picks to another team in a separate trade.

Pigeon holing yourself into hockey trades only is silly.

Sure, but that's much more difficult to do within season. Non-contenders aren't trading picks at this point, or at all. Contenders either don't have 1st and 2nd round picks, or they are holding onto them until the TDL when they have more cap room to acquire rentals for picks. So, the Jets would likely have to wait until closer to the deadline to acquire picks from contenders, then try to flip them to non-contenders. But that starts to really narrow the trade options.

The most efficient strategy would likely be to trade 55 and 37 for picks closer to the TDL and then maybe flip those picks at the 2024 draft. But that would mean tossing in the towel for this upcoming season, and I'm not sure the Jets will want to do that.

 

[DRW204]

There’s nothing stopping Chevy/Chipman from acquiring draft picks for Helle and/or Scheifele then flipping the picks to another team in a separate trade.

Pigeon holing yourself into hockey trades only is silly.

yeah this hasn't been discussed a lot, at least from what i've seen on here.

this was basically the backbone of STLs cup and multiple 0.6+ pts% years. move Stastny and Shattenkirk for 1sts+, then uses them to acquire ROR and Schenn.

the uncertainty is, dunno which team exactly is trading their top-line C or good starting caliber goalie for mid-to-late 1sts+, and if the Jets are competing at the TDL they likely are not selling their top-line C or Goalie. Then ofc there's the issue of getting a trade done given ntc/nmc.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I've done a few cap friendly a couple years out.

Wings are going to be very crowded with Rutger and Barlow likely on the club by 25-26

DeMelo I imagine we give him a 50% raise for 3 or 4 years and he stays

McGro has also played C - so that could be an option

 

[KingBogo]

Much emphasis on Jets' ST sales has been focused on team performance, but I think it's also been highly affected by Covid and the economy (particularly inflation). The "couchification" of society (i.e. tendency to stay home and work and live from a couch) has accentuated the challenge of selling tickets to live events. Note below how ticket sales to movie theatres plummeted, and haven't recovered post-Covid.

I highly doubt that most ticket buyers (especially ST buyers) will take the stance that they will be happy to continue to pay high prices for a non-competitive team until a rebuild is completed years into the future. That's perhaps appealing to fans who aren't investing much in tickets, but not to many who are current ST buyers.

I think the Jets' organization might need to go through a dip in the standings for a few seasons at some point, but they'll have to cut salary and other costs substantially and manage with low ticket sales. More importantly, they'll have to hope that ticket buyers don't retreat permanently into "couch fans", making the Winnipeg market untenable.

I think that's why the Jets have been reluctant to let the team dive at this sensitive juncture, and have been putting direct emphasis on expanding the corporate ticket base. They see the overall trends in live entertainment, and the challenge of getting individual fans to make relatively big investments in Jets' ticket purchases.

I'm a season ticket holder as well, and some of their new ticket packages are pretty appealing. I'm now retired and my ST keep me tied to the city throughout the winter. I still teach online in the field I use to work in, but that can be done anywhere. The new ticket package that caught my eye was the snowbird package, where you can get 4 or 6 or 8 games scheduled only in October, November, March and April. They come at a small fraction of what ST cost and would be very convenient for winter travel. I'll give TNSE credit for reaching out to fans in creative ways to buy tickets, but they just might find out there won't be many Season Ticket holders left at some point.

 

[Cypruss]

I'm thinking along a different path here. Unload them all for futures (picks and prospects) sooner rather than later.

The Jets are not going to be able to win (compete maybe, win no) by following the same sort of path as all the other markets that have tangible benefits that Winnipeg does not have (Tax status, good weather, cosmopolitan lifestyle, No-Movement clauses, etc, etc). I think we need to take some different risks and try something different to give us a few seasons as a top 5 team and a real threat to win it all.

Sell Sell Sell. Before camps open.

I keep seeing how the salary cap is expected to rise and current contract negotiations and signings are reflecting that. Lots of comments that this cap hit will be just fine in a few years. Well, what if like before, the cap doesn't rise over the next 4 years.

What if say by December 2023, Canada is back into lockdowns, masks, vax passports again just like a few years ago - and another season is suspended / cancelled. Those players that were held (for one more run!) are now gone with no TDL to try and sell if out of it. The cap will be frozen again for multiple years as more economic turmoil is here and more and more people go bankrupt and cannot buy tickets if/when the league resumes.

It could happen. I say it will likely happen again this early winter.
Be different Jets. Give yourself a chance. Sell what you can and not have those anchor contracts that are created with 3+ years of another flat cap. Give yourself space to get good players on the cheap from the desperate teams that forecasted $3m increase in cap over the next 4 years and signed players on that premise.

By thinking differently than all the rest - you just may open that opportunity to have a Cup parade in 3-4 years down to Portage & Main!!

Just my opinion......

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Two 1st round picks plus a 2nd plus 2 prospects, those assets combined (if the Jets do use them for a rebuild) gives the Jets a chance to have at bare minimum 1-2 NHL players. That is the floor on that return based on the probability of drafting NHL players in those slots plus the probability of the prospects turning out, that is not the ceiling on that return. The Stars drafted their #1 goalie, #1LW via mid 1sts early 2nd round picks in the same draft, the Jets could have drafted Aho in the pick they got back for Kane, the Jets could have drafted DeBrincat/Girard with the pick they got back for Ladd, maybe these picks turn into that for the Jets or maybe they don't either way there is a non-zero probability of one or more of these 1sts turning into a star player and a very high probability of getting atleast 1-2 servicable NHL players out of these assets in a few years. Whereas the probabilty to turning 55/37 into a star player = 0 and the probability of getting even 1 NHL player for them is 0 if they walk for nothing.

Teams don't win by just having 1-2 high end players on the team. They win by having high end players AND solid depth, that depth means 2nd liners, 3rd liners, mid pairing D and so on. The only way to acquire top impact talent AND depth in a market like Winnipeg is to draft it or trade for it in exchange for expiring assets.

I don't even care if all the assets the Jets acquire in these trade end up as busts. The results are not the main point here in the context of the discussion of the fate of 55/37, the process is. No trade is going to guarantee a "quick turnaround" or "massive impact". All you can do is make moves that give you the best shot at improving your team bit by bit. The Copp trade has resulted in the Jets having their best C prospect, best D prospect and 2nd best goalie prospect, that trade could have busted as well but it would guaranteed have busted if the Jets had never made the trade to give themselves those swings for fear of "people overestimating the impact of a Copp trade".

If the Jets handle the process correctly and mess it up that is on the circumstances and the drafting but atleast gives one some confidence in the management's ability to handle assets. If they f*** up the process then they are the Vancouver Canucks and there are not many situations worse than being the Canucks.



If the Jets don't want to rebuild and want to compete (as you have been saying all offseason) then the only logical choice is to flip them for assets which can be flipped for NHL impact players. It is not what I would do due to it being a low ceiling move but it is the only valid option if they want to try to make the playoffs for the gate revenue.

The Jets will have many holes coming up, not just 1C and 1D. And those 1st round picks will go a long way to get players to fill those holes. For example those 1sts could be used to get a Swayman type player to fill the net, which is going to be the Jets #1 need next summer if they do want to compete. The other remaining assets could be used to bolster forward depth which is sorely lacking. Either way it gives the Jets flexibility to make moves if they so choose and if a player they like becomes available. The alternative is without having any assets to trade, scraping the bottom of the pile at FA next summer when you are not going to get anything good.



There are many reasons why young players leave a team and having no supporting cast to give them a chance of winning, esp in a small market like Winnipeg is one of them. If the Jets are as bare as they look right now by the time some of the current top prospects are getting their 2nd contracts, it becomes an option for them to try to go somewhere else to win if the club doesn't have a supporting cast for them to play with. It is much easier to sell them on a new contract if there is a pipeline of promising players coming up rather than being down 5 assets just to watch 55/37 for another 20 games 4-5 years ago.

I think it comes down to how you balance the impact of those 2 future players and the impact of Helle + Scheif for one more kick at the can this year

If we're in first place at the deadline and look like we have a shot I'll be very disappointed if we trade these guys

 

[Whileee]

I'm thinking along a different path here. Unload them all for futures (picks and prospects) sooner rather than later.

The Jets are not going to be able to win (compete maybe, win no) by following the same sort of path as all the other markets that have tangible benefits that Winnipeg does not have (Tax status, good weather, cosmopolitan lifestyle, No-Movement clauses, etc, etc). I think we need to take some different risks and try something different to give us a few seasons as a top 5 team and a real threat to win it all.

Sell Sell Sell. Before camps open.

I keep seeing how the salary cap is expected to rise and current contract negotiations and signings are reflecting that. Lots of comments that this cap hit will be just fine in a few years. Well, what if like before, the cap doesn't rise over the next 4 years.

What if say by December 2023, Canada is back into lockdowns, masks, vax passports again just like a few years ago - and another season is suspended / cancelled. Those players that were held (for one more run!) are now gone with no TDL to try and sell if out of it. The cap will be frozen again for multiple years as more economic turmoil is here and more and more people go bankrupt and cannot buy tickets if/when the league resumes.

It could happen. I say it will likely happen again this early winter.
Be different Jets. Give yourself a chance. Sell what you can and not have those anchor contracts that are created with 3+ years of another flat cap. Give yourself space to get good players on the cheap from the desperate teams that forecasted $3m increase in cap over the next 4 years and signed players on that premise.

By thinking differently than all the rest - you just may open that opportunity to have a Cup parade in 3-4 years down to Portage & Main!!

Just my opinion......

But isn't that the same strategy of about 9 or 10 other teams, that have a few years of head start on the Jets?

Ottawa
Anaheim
Arizona
Chicago
Montreal
Philadelphia
Detroit
Buffalo
New Jersey

Maybe the Jets can implement that plan better, but they won't be unique.

 

[Whileee]

I think it comes down to how you balance the impact of those 2 future players and the impact of Helle + Scheif for one more kick at the can this year

If we're in first place at the deadline and look like we have a shot I'll be very disappointed if we trade these guys

Another way of looking at it... at the last TDL there were a lot of fans that wanted the Jets to be more aggressive in acquiring players like Meier as rentals. That would have cost the Jets a top pick and a top prospect. Looking ahead, keeping Hellebuyck and Scheifele would be the equivalent of giving up futures to keep a more competitive team for a playoff run.

I still think Chevy is going to try to make hockey trades for Scheifele and Hellebuyck by January, if they don't extend. The trade market will change between now and then, and some contenders might be looking to fill injury or performance gaps. Also, the cap hits become easier and easier to absorb as the season progresses, especially with retention.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Another way of looking at it... at the last TDL there were a lot of fans that wanted the Jets to be more aggressive in acquiring players like Meier as rentals. That would have cost the Jets a top pick and a top prospect. Looking ahead, keeping Hellebuyck and Scheifele would be the equivalent of giving up futures to keep a more competitive team for a playoff run.

I still think Chevy is going to try to make hockey trades for Scheifele and Hellebuyck by January, if they don't extend. The trade market will change between now and then, and some contenders might be looking to fill injury or performance gaps. Also, the cap hits become easier and easier to absorb as the season progresses, especially with retention.

Tought to follow that logic though because Winnipeg could afford to cover salary if we are getting prospects and RFAs back... I hope Im wrong but I think TNSE will push hard to the very end to sign Scheif - and either get him at 7 years or lose him for nothing.

 

[Whileee]

Tought to follow that logic though because Winnipeg could afford to cover salary if we are getting prospects and RFAs back... I hope Im wrong but I think TNSE will push hard to the very end to sign Scheif - and either get him at 7 years or lose him for nothing.

I can see the logic in the Jets trying to re-sign both Scheifele and Hellebuyck. I just think the Winnipeg market has become toxic for Scheifele, and Hellebuyck wants to be in the US. So I doubt either will agree to re-sign.

My guess is that Chevy will try to make hockey trades, and pull the trigger if / when he gets a decent return. But if the trade offers are very low (like a late 1st and a lower prospect), I could see Chevy just running this roster and then regrouping in the 2024 off-season with several forward prospects just about ready and a ton of cap space. I just can't see him give up 55 and 37 for weak futures unless the Jets are really not a playoff contender.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I'm hoping for a relatively quick ending to the saga now that we are getting closer to the season, and agreed Chipman and Chevy are in a tight spot. I really don't think they have any desire to move Helly and Scheifele for picks and prospects, now in season or at the TDL. Chevy struck gold with PLD, but age made him more movable. I'm guessing they still have hope that an extension and/or hockey trade happens with 37/55.

Those that think Chevy and more so Chipman will move 55 and 37 at the TDL are barking at the wrong tree IMO. That would be the final cratering out of their ST base. There is a lot of ticket fatigue right now with the remaining ST holders. Most feel like they have been carrying the financial burden for 12 years now and will take a financial breather on any rebuild. Most will still be fans, but why buy 41 + 3 X 2 tickets over the next few seasons with little opportunity to recoup any money on the single game market other than for original 6 teams. If we are going to transition out the current core for a new core, much easier to just buy the odd ticket to preferred games at a much cheaper cost, and then jump back in 5-7 years down the road if the current prospects and future picks gel as a competitive team.

IMO, Chevy and Mark C put themselves in the tough spot. Just as they knew PLD was not signing long term, if they’re tapped into their team as they should be, they’d know that 55 and 37 were not planning to stay with the club.

With that, they had to have known it was a slim chance they’d be a Stanley cup contender and should have begun the “re-tool” then while being bad was advantageous with such a deep draft.

Now, they have little to no leverage with 2 expiring assets that they’ll likely have to take 4 quarters for a dollar.

I shake my head how reactive this team is vs being proactive with asset management.