Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Mortimer Snerd]

I guess the way I see it, is if a poster shows you all of the analytic arguments as to why Ehlers is our most talented forward, if not our best forward, but they can't provide a single one about why this isn't the case in the playoffs, then you're going to have a very hard time convincing me that analytics aren't misleading.

To answer those questions. No. No. But I would say the same thing about literally every key player in the playoffs. I've not made the argument that he's the sole reason we lost. Has anyone?

No, I don't think anyone has put the blame entirely on Ehlers. But he is being given the lions share of it. Along with Helle.

Being unable to explain, or identify why he is failing to produce is a 2 sided coin. If his supporters can't explain it, or excuse it are they supposed to join the chorus of criticism? What about the critics who also can't explain it?

It would be different if the team was playing well but being let down by 1 or 2 players. This is not the case. It is the whole team so I am going to go back to looking at coaching as a major contributor. Though also not the sole source of the problem the coaches are the ones tasked with getting results out of the assets at hand.

You are correct - it is a poor one.
Ehlers pretty much does his own thing out there most nights - that's his game and has little to do with trust (IMO).

He's played that way his whole career - he tries to do too much on his own which is likely the reason he struggles in the PO's.
When teams button things down and add another level of speed, grit and urgency to their game, the guys that suffer the most will be the players that used to get the space and time to do it on their own.

Fair enough.
Still comes down to trying to do too much on his own, for whatever reason.

 

[Daximus]

No, I don't think anyone has put the blame entirely on Ehlers. But he is being given the lions share of it. Along with Helle.

Being unable to explain, or identify why he is failing to produce is a 2 sided coin. If his supporters can't explain it, or excuse it are they supposed to join the chorus of criticism? What about the critics who also can't explain it?

It would be different if the team was playing well but being let down by 1 or 2 players. This is not the case. It is the whole team so I am going to go back to looking at coaching as a major contributor. Though also not the sole source of the problem the coaches are the ones tasked with getting results out of the assets at hand.



Fair enough.
Still comes down to trying to do too much on his own, for whatever reason.

I think it's pretty easy to explain actually. Yes it's entirely based on eyewitness testimony but I feel like anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see the stark difference between how he plays in the regular season vs. how he plays in the playoffs.

He's afraid. It's plain as day. He avoids contact in the playoffs like if he gets hit he's going to die. The plays he has no issues trying to make in the regular season he gives up on the moment there is pressure on him from literally anyone small or big. Anytime he gets the puck in a dangerous area, his first thought seems to be "who is close and can they hit me?" If so he just throws the puck in deep, often giving up possession and turns away from the contact. It's more compounded by the fact that there is just less time and space in the playoffs to make plays and despite Nik being a premier skater, his mind often is playing catch up to his skating. If it didn't he'd be the next Bure.

We see it often when the checking gets tighter in the regular season. Great zone entry, skate around the zone in circles not knowing what to do or who to pass to because he won't drive to the net if there is a chance of being hit. It gets 100 times worse in the playoffs because he won't even attempt the potentially dangerous zone entry without tossing the puck away for fear of getting hit.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In the absence of a McDavid or Mackinnon, I think it's tough to isolate a "most skilled or talented forward" on most teams. I think Ehlers is our best puck carrier up front. He skates extremely well with the puck and can change directions without losing speed

In terms of pure hands/scoring touch around the net, I'd give the nod to Connor or Vilardi. Shooting from a distance would maybe be Ehlers or Schief.

So he's up there for sure

As for the rest of it, Lowry outscores his opposition but would you say he's more valuable to the team than Schief?

As for analytics, I've said in the past that they are an objective observation that can go into decision making processes. I used line combinations as an example. But they can't be the only criteria. I've never discredited them directly, just conclusions that people have drawn from (in my opinion) overvaluing them or dismissing all other relevant factors

How about conclusions based on stats + eye test? Or multiple different stats?

It appears to me that it is almost any conclusion that you object to. Sure, look at the stats, but don't draw any conclusions based on them.

What other relevant factors are you referring to? What relevant factors don't show up in the stats? How can the performance, good or bad, of any player on the ice not affect the stats?

I can see the point you are trying to make that vilardi has a history of not being able to play a full season where ehlers has, how ever I think the past 6 seasons of ehlers getting hurt or playing hurt is enough of a sample size to also state that it is also optimistic to expect ehlers to be able to remain healthy

Ehlers has missed quite a few games in recent seasons. He played a full season this year. Yes he played hurt. All players do that to some extent. I will grant you that his injury history is worse than avg and it is a concern to some extent. But Vilardi never plays a complete season, or even close to it. At some point you have to accept that either he is brittle or he fails to protect himself. Either way, you have to expect him to miss a large part of every season.

I've not made this point. He's one of the key reasons though. I'm definitely making that point, and will continue to do so whenever the subject comes up; and that trusty red light goes off warning me.

If Ehlers is going to be elevated by a number of key posters here, as to the main reason why the offense is (relatively) successful in the regular season, those same people can't (but they will) all-of-a-sudden downplay his importance when things go South every time the playoffs come; at least the past 3 sweeps. You have to be a bit clued-in as to why the team is struggling, and he's the main common denominator; I'd say going back to Vegas in 2018.

He missed the first 2 games vs Edmonton, and that was the last series we have won.

I haven't heard too much from @Gm0ney or @Maukkis and a long list of others, who overlap in a love of analytics and Ehlers being their favorite player, to give even the slightest reason as to why they think he fails in the playoffs. All intelligent people (save for the teen who only posts other people's work). And when I say reason, I'm not talking about how "every one on the team bombed" or "he's being deployed incorrectly", "usage", etc.

I mean, why is he playing so poorly relative to how he plays in the regular season, considering he has success leading a 2nd unit (though the "leading" part is debatable but I'll go with it here), driving the 2nd unit, against (in theory) more favorable matchups. Sure, he might put up better numbers on that 1st line in the playoffs, but what's happening to him with his own line? Why gloss over that?

The analytical-type will hijack a celebratory thread, on a +5 game winning streak, to tell you what's not working, yet, Ehlers fails again, nothing is said by (most) of those same people. Fascinating. You have all of that intelligence, and information at your finger tips, and no one seems to be the least bit interested in investigating "Why Ehlers isn't good in the playoffs?"

I'm very interested in why he has been ineffective in the PO. I'm also interested in why the coaches, all of them, have been unable to turn that around.

 

[gojetsgo]

Ehlers has missed quite a few games in recent seasons. He played a full season this year. Yes he played hurt. All players do that to some extent. I will grant you that his injury history is worse than avg and it is a concern to some extent. But Vilardi never plays a complete season, or even close to it. At some point you have to accept that either he is brittle or he fails to protect himself. Either way, you have to expect him to miss a large part of every season.

I have accepted that both players are injury prone and it is optimistic to expect that both players play the full 82...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

and it's been every single year with ehlers since 17-18... you can say he played the full 82 this year but he missed the entire preseason, had to skip practices and didn't go to the world championships because he was dealing with a neck injury this season, both players have been unable to stay healthy, both players have played nearly the same amount of games in the past 4 years

Further:
Ehlers played 82 in 18
missed 22 in 19
played the full 71 games in 20 - hardly his fault that the season was shortened
missed 9 games in the shortened 21 season
missed 20 games 22
missed 37 games in 23
played all games in 24

If you only look at games played those 2 shortened seasons make it look worse than it was. 22 & 23 were a bad stretch that make his totals worse than avg. But apart from those 2 seasons his injury history has not been unusual at all. Out of his last 8 seasons he has played all games 4 times. I leave out his rookie season because I'm not sure why he missed a few games.

I have accepted that both players are injury prone and it is optimistic to expect that both players play the full 82...

Still a huge difference between them. Ehlers, 4 complete seasons out of 8. Vilardi 0 complete seasons going back to Jr days.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So you're saying that when someone mentions Ehlers playoff performances and the OP changes it to "well, everyone else sucked" isn't a strawman? By definition, that's refuting the Ehlers criticism by inserting someone else's failures. Kinda fits the definition to a T

Not really. Pointing out that everyone else sucked is relevant to the environment he is playing in. The conditions that are affecting everyone else are also affecting him. Conditions like the opposition, his linemates, his coaches, etc.

 

[surixon]

I think it's pretty easy to explain actually. Yes it's entirely based on eyewitness testimony but I feel like anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see the stark difference between how he plays in the regular season vs. how he plays in the playoffs.

He's afraid. It's plain as day. He avoids contact in the playoffs like if he gets hit he's going to die. The plays he has no issues trying to make in the regular season he gives up on the moment there is pressure on him from literally anyone small or big. Anytime he gets the puck in a dangerous area, his first thought seems to be "who is close and can they hit me?" If so he just throws the puck in deep, often giving up possession and turns away from the contact. It's more compounded by the fact that there is just less time and space in the playoffs to make plays and despite Nik being a premier skater, his mind often is playing catch up to his skating. If it didn't he'd be the next Bure.

We see it often when the checking gets tighter in the regular season. Great zone entry, skate around the zone in circles not knowing what to do or who to pass to because he won't drive to the net if there is a chance of being hit. It gets 100 times worse in the playoffs because he won't even attempt the potentially dangerous zone entry without tossing the puck away for fear of getting hit.

You know I've been playing around with edge data and Fly really stands out in comparison to the other top 6 players on the team.

I know some think we have a team of perimeter players in the top 6 but that really only applies to Ehlers. All of Perfetti, Scheifele and Vilardi are well above league average in terms of shots on goal from high danger location. KC is also above league average but not as good as the other three. Ehlers on the other hand was just average in terms of high danger shots. He was above average in mid to long distance shots. He is largely a perimeter shooter and imo when teams tighten up in the playoffs its much harder to score from distance and that is Fly's preferred type of game.

I know ice time will be brought up but Perfetti in far less minutes and games had roughly 20 more high dangerous shots on net then Ehlers. So to me it's a playstyle thing. Most of our top 6 is getting to those tough areas and imo that is where you need to go to score in the playoffs.

 

[Weezeric]

I'm pro balanced lines but to me they need gritty players that can read the game offensively well enough to keep up. Nino is one such player but we'd need more of them to run such a system.

This isn't meant to slag Lowry but that is an area he isn't good enough and that to me is why we have deployed line 3 in the way we have. The offense that runs through that line is very simplistic and doesn't work well with more skilled players. We tried that a couple times over the years. We've tried Laine, Perfetti, Toffoli, and Ehlers at various times over the years with him and it just doesn't click.

I think at this point in his career I think the Jets have appropriately identified what works for him line wise.

I'd like to see more balance on the other three lines though.



He'd really fit that puck pursuit and tenacious type of game we seem to want to run. I loved watching him live for the Ice. He'd also add some more speed to our prospect pool and is a right shot. I think him and Cole would make a great combination for the future.

Over the past three seasons, Ehlers has an xGF/60 of 3.83 with Lowry and 3.09 without him. Over 215 minutes, so it’s not a tiny sample.

 

[Daximus]

You know I've been playing around with edge data and Fly really stands out in comparison to the other top 6 players on the team.

I know some think we have a team of perimeter players in the top 6 but that really only applies to Ehlers. All of Perfetti, Scheifele and Vilardi are well above league average in terms of shots on goal from high danger location. KC is also above league average but not as good as the other three. Ehlers on the other hand was just average in terms of high danger shots. He was above average in mid to long distance shots. He is largely a perimeter shooter and imo when teams tighten up in the playoffs its much harder to score from distance and that is Fly's preferred type of game.

I know ice time will be brought up but Perfetti in far less minutes and games had roughly 20 more high dangerous shots on net then Ehlers. So to me it's a playstyle thing. Most of our top 6 is getting to those tough areas and imo that is where you need to go to score in the playoffs.

Yeah it's pretty easy to identify with him. He's not big on going to the net, which generally isn't what you want in a player these days, It's likely why he goes from an elite player in the regular season to barely replacement level in the playoffs. A lot more time and space available in the regular season, much less in the playoffs. I think we can whether the storm losing him in the regular season and he's easily replaceable come playoff time. Heck we probably could have inserted Perfetti, Lambert or Chibirkov on over him this post season and gotten better results out of that position.

 

[Maukkis]

I think we can whether the storm losing him in the regular season

Come up with a lineup that works, then. 12 names up front.

 

[Orrrules]

Ehlers is highly skilled but he is also highly flawed when it comes to puck management. As a teammate it would drive me crazy. Dump the puck in deep when your linemates are trying to change don't do a pirouette at the blue line and turn it over you dummy.

 

[Buffdog]

How about conclusions based on stats + eye test? Or multiple different stats?

It appears to me that it is almost any conclusion that you object to. Sure, look at the stats, but don't draw any conclusions based on them.

What other relevant factors are you referring to? What relevant factors don't show up in the stats? How can the performance, good or bad, of any player on the ice not affect the stats?

Bingo to the bolded

For the most part, I WILL object to any opinion that is 100% one way or the other. We live in a world where you either believe things are black or white and whoever doesn't share your view is somehow against you.

I always *try* see things in a nuanced way which leads me to shades of grey. Of course, if one sice says white and i'm not with them, and the other says black, and I'm not with them... then both sides think I'm against them. Which isn't true

For example, I've been accused of being an Ehlers hater. There isn't one single goddamn post of mine that says that. What I HAVE done is pointed out his flaws (all players have some).

Same is true for analytics. I'm not against them, but they aren't thr end-all-be-all either.

 

[Daximus]

Come up with a lineup that works, then. 12 names.

We won't know until we get through camp to see whose ready and what if anything on the return for Ehlers will be.

Our teams success doesn't lay squarely on the shoulders of a player who plays 13 minutes a night at even strength. We will survive, I promise you.

 

[Dale53130]

No, I don't think anyone has put the blame entirely on Ehlers. But he is being given the lions share of it. Along with Helle.

Being unable to explain, or identify why he is failing to produce is a 2 sided coin. If his supporters can't explain it, or excuse it are they supposed to join the chorus of criticism? What about the critics who also can't explain it?

It would be different if the team was playing well but being let down by 1 or 2 players. This is not the case. It is the whole team so I am going to go back to looking at coaching as a major contributor. Though also not the sole source of the problem the coaches are the ones tasked with getting results out of the assets at hand.

Why not?

This isn't a shot at you, I respect your posts and posting style even though I'll disagree with you on some key points. But people like @Jets 31 @DRW204 @surixon , all Ehlers' fans (to varying degrees), have pointed out their issues with his style of play (or his lack of productivity), specifically when it comes to the playoffs. Going forward - for me - I'd be more inclined to listen to their viewpoints, because they're showing a certain level of balance. I'd feel even less inclined to listen to those that are doubling-down on pretending playoff performance doesn't matter, or putting ALL of their stock in regular season 5v5 performance (as though special teams and playoffs isn't a thing).

I think Kyle Connor has sucked on defense for the better part of his career. That's not exactly a newsflash, but that's been his #1 issue. I hate reading about it, but it's true. I'm a fan of Kyle Connor; as trying as it can be when he played like he did from January through March. I've said he sucks on defense, and pretty much everyone I know who likes Kyle Connor (that post here regularly), also say this. I also don't think they're that many regular posters here actually identify Kyle Connor as being their favorite player, but that's another thing.

I don't think Ehlers was the worst player in this recent series, but he (again) failed to raise his level of play, or he continues to be shut down because he's more predictable to gameplan for than people are wanting to accept. Basing his play on "1" series is a bit much, but I'm not basing this on one series. He's always played like this in the playoffs, and he should be exiting his prime soon.

Has any player in the history of the game, from the age of 22-to-28, dropped off harder in the playoffs from their regular season production?

 

[Maukkis]

We won't know until we get through camp to see whose ready and what if anything on the return for Ehlers will be.

Our teams success doesn't lay squarely on the shoulders of a player who plays 13 minutes a night at even strength. We will survive, I promise you.

Names. If you think you're right, you'll be able to come up with a lineup. Or are we meant to believe you?

 

[gojetsgo]

Names. If you think you're right, you'll be able to come up with a lineup. Or are we meant to believe you?

rofl, this is such a lame comment... like nobody here is actually a gm, we have no idea what players are actually available, it's like last year if you were to ask who could we get in a pld trade, do you think anyone would have listed vilardi? ehlers is a good player but he isn't some unicorn that can't be replaced

 

[Daximus]

Bingo to the bolded

For the most part, I WILL object to any opinion that is 100% one way or the other. We live in a world where you either believe things are black or white and whoever doesn't share your view is somehow against you.

I always *try* see things in a nuanced way which leads me to shades of grey. Of course, if one sice says white and i'm not with them, and the other says black, and I'm not with them... then both sides think I'm against them. Which isn't true

For example, I've been accused of being an Ehlers hater. There isn't one single goddamn post of mine that says that. What I HAVE done is pointed out his flaws (all players have some).

Same is true for analytics. I'm not against them, but they aren't thr end-all-be-all either.

Not a single one of our players are perfect, they all have flaws but I can largely live with those flaws. Ehlers just happens to be the one who continually underpreforms in the playoffs. It's a striking difference between the two. So much so it makes you question whether you are looking at the same player. And although it's a small sample size it's a glaring one that isn't true about any of our other players. A good chunk of them take a dip in the playoffs, a few of them get better, but none of them have such a massive canyon between their regular season performance vs. their playoff performance than Ehlers. It's a Grand Canyon between the two.

I'm a huge Ehlers fan, Heck I joined this forum after scouting out the 2014 draft on my own to see who we would take and being enamoured with Ehlers as our pick. It gave me a tonne of hope that we could turn this franchise around and he would be a cornerstone piece. I have a signed Ehlers rookie jersey in a custom shadowbox, a tonne of cards and Ehlers related memorabilia that I proudly display in my game room and will continue to proudly display if and when he leaves. I don't hate Ehlers. I love this team though and I think it's the best move going forward to move on from him. It's gonna be tough and I fully expect that he could blossom elsewhere and maybe even be a key contributer on a playoff team that wins a Cup. But I don't think it's here.

Names. If you think you're right, you'll be able to come up with a lineup. Or are we meant to believe you?

I don't know. To many factors between now and then that I can't account for. Nobody has all the answers. All I can say is that we will be okay, you can believe me if you want or not. It's your call to make.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why not?

This isn't a shot at you, I respect your posts and posting style even though I'll disagree with you on some key points. But people like @Jets 31 @DRW204 @surixon , all Ehlers' fans (to varying degrees), have pointed out their issues with his style of play (or his lack of productivity), specifically when it comes to the playoffs. Going forward - for me - I'd be more inclined to listen to their viewpoints, because they're showing a certain level of balance. I'd feel even less inclined to listen to those that are doubling-down on pretending playoff performance doesn't matter, or putting ALL of their stock in regular season 5v5 performance (as though special teams and playoffs isn't a thing).

I think Kyle Connor has sucked on defense for the better part of his career. That's not exactly a newsflash, but that's been his #1 issue. I hate reading about it, but it's true. I'm a fan of Kyle Connor; as trying as it can be when he played like he did from January through March. I've said he sucks on defense, and pretty much everyone I know who likes Kyle Connor (that post here regularly), also say this. I also don't think they're that many regular posters here actually identify Kyle Connor as being their favorite player, but that's another thing.

I don't think Ehlers was the worst player in this recent series, but he (again) failed to raise his level of play, or he continues to be shut down because he's more predictable to gameplan for than people are wanting to accept. Basing his play on "1" series is a big much, but I'm not basing this on one series. He's always played like this in the playoffs, and he should be exiting his prime soon.
Has any player in the history of the game, from the age of 22-to-28, dropped off harder in the playoffs from their regular season production?

OK, there is a difference between acknowledging his PO failures and jumping on the Ehlers must go bandwagon because of it. That's why I question joining the chorus of criticism. That's why not.

I might feel very differently about the issue if I understood it better. I've seen some attempts at explaining it and even taken a stab at it myself. But nothing looks or feels to me like quite the right answer. If I could see that it is something unfixable I could get on board the 'move Ehlers because he sucks in the PO' bus. But I can't see that. I think that whatever it is it could probably be fixed.

The 1 thing that may be playing a big part goes back to the endless usage discussion. I have hesitated to even mention that one because it is almost a separate issue. Fixing Ehlers' PO success by addressing that one might just create other PO failure issues. So I leave that one to the regular season and the same issue that it always is. If that usage was changed for the whole regular season and was successful, then I would expect it to also succeed in the PO.

The emphasis on regular season and 5v5 isn't because ST and PO isn't a thing. It is because 5v5 is the only level playing field we have to use. Ehlers gets a lot less PP time than those he is compared to and the time he gets is with the lesser lights on the 2nd unit. The regular season v PO issue is different. Yes PO matter. They matter more than reg season. But then we run into trying to correctly identify the cause(s) and questions about sample size, etc.

I suspect it is at least partially about the difference between NHL reg season and NHL PO. You expect a difference in intensity. But there shouldn't be a whole different rulebook, but there is. Everyone knows it. It has always been that way - and it is just nuts!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Bingo to the bolded

For the most part, I WILL object to any opinion that is 100% one way or the other. We live in a world where you either believe things are black or white and whoever doesn't share your view is somehow against you.

I always *try* see things in a nuanced way which leads me to shades of grey. Of course, if one sice says white and i'm not with them, and the other says black, and I'm not with them... then both sides think I'm against them. Which isn't true

For example, I've been accused of being an Ehlers hater. There isn't one single goddamn post of mine that says that. What I HAVE done is pointed out his flaws (all players have some).

Same is true for analytics. I'm not against them, but they aren't thr end-all-be-all either.

I agree wholeheartedly with that approach.

Sometimes it seems that you are not following it - and I emphasize strongly the sometimes and the seems.

In the heat of the discussion, especially when the conversation is entirely text, people's nuanced POV gets lost.

 

[Dale53130]

OK, there is a difference between acknowledging his PO failures and jumping on the Ehlers must go bandwagon because of it. That's why I question joining the chorus of criticism. That's why not.

I might feel very differently about the issue if I understood it better. I've seen some attempts at explaining it and even taken a stab at it myself. But nothing looks or feels to me like quite the right answer. If I could see that it is something unfixable I could get on board the 'move Ehlers because he sucks in the PO' bus. But I can't see that. I think that whatever it is it could probably be fixed.

The 1 thing that may be playing a big part goes back to the endless usage discussion. I have hesitated to even mention that one because it is almost a separate issue. Fixing Ehlers' PO success by addressing that one might just create other PO failure issues. So I leave that one to the regular season and the same issue that it always is. If that usage was changed for the whole regular season and was successful, then I would expect it to also succeed in the PO.

The emphasis on regular season and 5v5 isn't because ST and PO isn't a thing. It is because 5v5 is the only level playing field we have to use. Ehlers gets a lot less PP time than those he is compared to and the time he gets is with the lesser lights on the 2nd unit. The regular season v PO issue is different. Yes PO matter. They matter more than reg season. But then we run into trying to correctly identify the cause(s) and questions about sample size, etc.

I suspect it is at least partially about the difference between NHL reg season and NHL PO. You expect a difference in intensity. But there shouldn't be a whole different rulebook, but there is. Everyone knows it. It has always been that way - and it is just nuts!

Someone had posted that Ehlers ranked last on the PP this season. There's also that.

Ehlers' prime has coincided with his playoff resume thus far. He was a 2 time 60 point scorer before he ever played his 1st playoff game. I have a hard time seeing variance balancing out his numbers for him moving forward, like he's magically going to hit some inflexion point in his mid-30's.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think it's pretty easy to explain actually. Yes it's entirely based on eyewitness testimony but I feel like anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see the stark difference between how he plays in the regular season vs. how he plays in the playoffs.

He's afraid. It's plain as day. He avoids contact in the playoffs like if he gets hit he's going to die. The plays he has no issues trying to make in the regular season he gives up on the moment there is pressure on him from literally anyone small or big. Anytime he gets the puck in a dangerous area, his first thought seems to be "who is close and can they hit me?" If so he just throws the puck in deep, often giving up possession and turns away from the contact. It's more compounded by the fact that there is just less time and space in the playoffs to make plays and despite Nik being a premier skater, his mind often is playing catch up to his skating. If it didn't he'd be the next Bure.

We see it often when the checking gets tighter in the regular season. Great zone entry, skate around the zone in circles not knowing what to do or who to pass to because he won't drive to the net if there is a chance of being hit. It gets 100 times worse in the playoffs because he won't even attempt the potentially dangerous zone entry without tossing the puck away for fear of getting hit.

I don't accept that. But I guess I don't have 2 brain cells to rub together.

 

[Daximus]

I don't accept that. But I guess I don't have 2 brain cells to rub together.

What part don't you accept? You don't think he shys away from contact? You don't think he afraid to go to the dirty areas?

I mean it's pretty easy to see.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If Ehlers had only played 10 or even 15 playoff games i wouldn't be worried about his lack of production but 4 goals in 37 playoff games is a big enough sample to show that for some reason Ehlers can't get it done come playoff time. I don't really understand how you keep saying what happens in the playoffs doesn't mean shit , isn't the ultimate goal to win the Stanley Cup?

Your emphasis on the 4 goals is a little misleading. You keep saying that often enough and it starts to look a lot like only 4 points. He has 14 pts in those 37 games. Still disappointing underperformance, but less bad than the emphasis on 4 of those points.

 

[tbcwpg]

You know I've been playing around with edge data and Fly really stands out in comparison to the other top 6 players on the team.

I know some think we have a team of perimeter players in the top 6 but that really only applies to Ehlers. All of Perfetti, Scheifele and Vilardi are well above league average in terms of shots on goal from high danger location. KC is also above league average but not as good as the other three. Ehlers on the other hand was just average in terms of high danger shots. He was above average in mid to long distance shots. He is largely a perimeter shooter and imo when teams tighten up in the playoffs its much harder to score from distance and that is Fly's preferred type of game.

I know ice time will be brought up but Perfetti in far less minutes and games had roughly 20 more high dangerous shots on net then Ehlers. So to me it's a playstyle thing. Most of our top 6 is getting to those tough areas and imo that is where you need to go to score in the playoffs.

Most of Ehlers goals come from the hash marks or behind. MoneyPuck.com -Shot Maps

 

[Dirtbag151]

Can we rename this thread the 'Ehlers whine-a-thon' thread.?
Because there really Isn't much trade or free agent rumor sh#t going on here and the title is annoyingly misleading