Prospect Info: All-Purpose Prospect Thread v11.0: The D Man Cometh

[Kevin Musto]

This doesn't apply to NCAA players. Mitchell or Barratt, if signed, would burn a year by playing 1 game.

 

[SnakePlissken]

How would Mitchell burn a year on his ELC when he doesn't even have one, yet? He's a college player(amateur), he can't have a pro contract while in college. He'll likely sign his ELC once his college season is over. I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt he'll play a single game this season. The Hawks likely aren't making the playoffs, and he also has to make the decision to sign the ELC, which I doubt he does before the end of the Hawks season. If he does, I believe he can't go back and play college. He has to go pro, so that's a big decision to make, and it all depends on when his college team gets knocked out.

It was 50's hypothetical that Mitchell and Krys would sign and play games with Rockford or Hawks this year. That's a pretty common enticement to get the college kids to sign and allow them to burn a year of their ELC by playing games this season.

I think he's correct that Krys, since he was 20 before this season started, would burn a year if he plays even one game for Rockford this season and therefore he would be eligible for the expansion draft if that happened. But I think the rules are different for 18 and 19 year olds, where that 10 game threshold applies before they burn a year. I was just looking for clarity on whether that threshold applies to Mitchell since he turned 20 after the season started. It could impact whether he could play any games for Rockford once DU is eliminated. It's also possible he would get a taste with Hawks if we're eliminated and it wouldn't impact his expansion draft eligibility.

 

[ChiHawks10]

It was 50's hypothetical that Mitchell and Krys would sign and play games with Rockford or Hawks this year. That's a pretty common enticement to get the college kids to sign and allow them to burn a year of their ELC by playing games this season.

I think he's correct that Krys, since he was 20 before this season started, would burn a year if he plays even one game for Rockford this season and therefore he would be eligible for the expansion draft if that happened. But I think the rules are different for 18 and 19 year olds, where that 10 game threshold applies before they burn a year. I was just looking for clarity on whether that threshold applies to Mitchell since he turned 20 after the season started. It could impact whether he could play any games for Rockford once DU is eliminated. It's also possible he would get a taste with Hawks if we're eliminated and it wouldn't impact his expansion draft eligibility.

I'm pretty sure Mitchell is unaffected, as he was 19 at the start of this season, and didn't turn 20 between September 1st and December 31st of the season.

 

[SnakePlissken]

This doesn't apply to NCAA players. Mitchell or Barratt, if signed, would burn a year by playing 1 game.

But when Quinn Hughes signed with VAN they mentioned the 10 game limit with respect to his expansion draft eligibility, so I think the rule is age-driven even for NCAA players.

 

[borednow]

For those who are interested, there are some nice FAQs on capfriendly.com that explain things like ELC slide and Expansion draft eligibility in specific detail, hint hint.

 

[ChiHawks10]

This doesn't apply to NCAA players. Mitchell or Barratt, if signed, would burn a year by playing 1 game.

College players don't even have ELCs, so they can't burn a year. The second a NCAA player signs a pro contract, he's no longer considered amateur, and is not eligible to return to NCAA play, IIRC. This is why it's such a huge decision for Mitchell to make. If he decides to go pro, he can't go back and play for Denver. His college career will be over.

Then he follows standard CBA ELC rules. Which are dependent on age cutoffs as far as burning a year goes. For Mitchell, I believe 1 game would burn a year, because he was already 20 when he signed his ELC. Any college player who is 18 or 19, and signs an ELC, and doesn't turn 20 during that season between(I believe) September 1st and December 31st, would only burn a year if they played more than 10 games.

 

[Kevin Musto]

College players don't even have ELCs, so they can't burn a year. The second a NCAA player signs a pro contract, he's no longer considered amateur, and is not eligible to return to NCAA play, IIRC. This is why it's such a huge decision for Mitchell to make. If he decides to go pro, he can't go back and play for Denver. His college career will be over.

Then he follows standard CBA ELC rules. Which are dependent on age cutoffs as far as burning a year goes. For Mitchell, I believe 1 game would burn a year, because he was already 20 when he signed his ELC. Any college player who is 18 or 19, and signs an ELC, and doesn't turn 20 during that season between(I believe) September 1st and December 31st, would only burn a year if they played more than 10 games.

I didn't say anything that contradicts what you said.

Once Mitchell and Barratt sign their ELCs, they will burn a year by playing 1 game.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I didn't say anything that contradicts what you said.

Once Mitchell and Barratt sign their ELCs, they will burn a year by playing 1 game.

Your post said this doesn't pertain to NCAA players, when that's not necessarily true. Your post sounds like you're saying that it doesn't matter for any NCAA player, no matter what. If a NCAA player signs an ELC at 18 or 19, they can play up to 10 games. If a NCAA player signs it at 20, they would burn a year with just one game.

Example:

Player A plays 1 year of college at 18 years old. When his season ends, he decides to sign his ELC and go pro. He would have to play over 10 games to burn a year of the ELC.

Best case scenario for the Hawks with Mitchell, would have been him turning 20 in like July... but his bday was in January, so he'd burn a year with just a single game.

I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

The ELC rules, and slides and stuff can be kinda confusing.

 

[AmericanDream]

College players don't even have ELCs, so they can't burn a year. The second a NCAA player signs a pro contract, he's no longer considered amateur, and is not eligible to return to NCAA play, IIRC. This is why it's such a huge decision for Mitchell to make. If he decides to go pro, he can't go back and play for Denver. His college career will be over.

Then he follows standard CBA ELC rules. Which are dependent on age cutoffs as far as burning a year goes. For Mitchell, I believe 1 game would burn a year, because he was already 20 when he signed his ELC. Any college player who is 18 or 19, and signs an ELC, and doesn't turn 20 during that season between(I believe) September 1st and December 31st, would only burn a year if they played more than 10 games.

wrong.

 

[ChiHawks10]

wrong.

Very insightful information you provided to back up your response.

What is wrong about it?

 

[AmericanDream]

Very insightful information you provided to back up your response.

What is wrong about it?

lol, just wanted to see you meltdown!

 

[ChiHawks10]

lol, just wanted to see you meltdown!

I didn't, though.

 

[Hawkaholic]

This doesn't apply to NCAA players. Mitchell or Barratt, if signed, would burn a year by playing 1 game.

Not sure about Mitchell, but yes on Barratt, although he would need to play NHL games next year as well, which isn't a guarantee.

 

[pvr]

While I’m concerned about burning a year off the ELC, I’m more concerned about exposure for the expansion draft. For that I believe any NHL games this year counts as a year for the expansion draft.

 

[Hawkaholic]

While I’m concerned about burning a year off the ELC, I’m more concerned about exposure for the expansion draft. For that I believe any NHL games this year counts as a year for the expansion draft.

They can play a game this year, but as long as they don't play more than 11 games next year I believe they will be exempt.

 

[pvr]

They can play a game this year, but as long as they don't play more than 11 games next year I believe they will be exempt.

I’d like some confirmation. There was a thread somewhere in the main boards, within which someone definitively stated that even just one game this year counted as a year in the NHL for purposes of the draft. This is very much unlike a player who doesn’t lose a year on the ELC for the game played.

 

[AmericanDream]

I didn't, though.

I was trying hahahaha

 

[ChiHawks10]

I was trying hahahaha

In your own words...

f*** off.

 

[SnakePlissken]

Your post said this doesn't pertain to NCAA players, when that's not necessarily true. Your post sounds like you're saying that it doesn't matter for any NCAA player, no matter what. If a NCAA player signs an ELC at 18 or 19, they can play up to 10 games. If a NCAA player signs it at 20, they would burn a year with just one game.

Example:

Player A plays 1 year of college at 18 years old. When his season ends, he decides to sign his ELC and go pro. He would have to play over 10 games to burn a year of the ELC.

Best case scenario for the Hawks with Mitchell, would have been him turning 20 in like July... but his bday was in January, so he'd burn a year with just a single game.

I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

The ELC rules, and slides and stuff can be kinda confusing.

Speaking of confusing, this article says that, if he had been healthy enough, 10 vs. 11 games would have had different ramifications for Q Hughes with respect to expansion eligibility and arbitration rights. Madness!

 

[borednow]

So much misinformation in these last few pages...

Ahem.

Per Capfriendly,
What is an Entry Level Slide?

If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.

This means that neither Barratt's nor Mitchell's ELC would slide if they signed with us this calendar year since they will both be 20 years old as of September 15, 2019. Therefore, if one of those guys signs an ELC that begins this season, they will burn the first year of their contract and have 2 years left on their ELC this summer regardless of how many games they play this season. Otherwise, if they sign an ELC that begins next season, they will have 3 years left on their ELC. On another note if you read the above explanation carefully you'll notice that the ELC slide threshold is 9/10 games and not 10/11 games.

As for expansion draft eligibility, this article does a great job of explaining the technical details: Clarification On Definition Of First And Second Year Professionals - SinBin.vegas

The key thing to note is that a season of professional experience is defined as 10 or more pro games played while under an NHL SPC. Therefore, if Barratt or Mitchell signs an ELC that begins next season and an AHL tryout contract after their college season ends, they can play as many AHL games as they want and remain exempt from the expansion draft. However, if they sign an ELC that begins this season, they can't play any more than 9 NHL/AHL games or they will be eligible for the expansion draft.

 

[Kevin Musto]

So much misinformation in these last few pages...

Ahem.

Per Capfriendly,
What is an Entry Level Slide?

If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.

This means that neither Barratt's nor Mitchell's ELC would slide if they signed with us this calendar year since they will both be 20 years old as of September 15, 2019. Therefore, if one of those guys signs an ELC that begins this season, they will burn the first year of their contract and have 2 years left on their ELC this summer regardless of how many games they play this season. Otherwise, if they sign an ELC that begins next season, they will have 3 years left on their ELC. On another note if you read the above explanation carefully you'll notice that the ELC slide threshold is 9/10 games and not 10/11 games.

As for expansion draft eligibility, this article does a great job of explaining the technical details: Clarification On Definition Of First And Second Year Professionals - SinBin.vegas

The key thing to note is that a season of professional experience is defined as 10 or more pro games played while under an NHL SPC. Therefore, if Barratt or Mitchell signs an ELC that begins next season and an AHL tryout contract after their college season ends, they can play as many AHL games as they want and remain exempt from the expansion draft. However, if they sign an ELC that begins this season, they can't play any more than 9 NHL/AHL games or they will be eligible for the expansion draft.

I think @ChiHawks10 had this all right

 

[ChiHawks10]

I think @ChiHawks10 had this all right

Pretty sure this a a tl;dr version of everything I said...

 

[borednow]

I think @ChiHawks10 had this all right

Most of it, yes, but the date when the player actually signs the contract is what's important here. Since Mitchell and Barratt are both 20 already, their ELCs will not slide under any circumstances, even if they play 0 games.

 

[AmericanDream]

Pretty sure this a a tl;dr version of everything I said...

wrong.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Most of it, yes, but the date when the player actually signs the contract is what's important here. Since Mitchell and Barratt are both 20 already, their ELCs will not slide under any circumstances, even if they play 0 games.

Right, but that has no effect on the expansion draft.