All Purpose Morgan Rielly Discussion

[audiotunesx]

Extend him whiles his value is low. 26 y/o, new coach, new partner...

 

[bossram]

We will have to give up Dermott or Holl to make that happen. I think this is the offseason we need to decide what we're doing.

Protect 8. Big four up front, then Muzzin, Holl, Brodie, Dermott.

You trade Rielly for flexibility. Should get a nice haul of moveable assets and cap space.

Next season:
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Brodie
Dermott - Liljegren

Leafs don't need Rielly. He's not a true 1D, can't play credible defense, and isn't a playdriver. He can rack up points, but I think a lot of guys can just by sliding the puck to Matthews/Marner on the PP.

 

[Notsince67]

Protect 8. Big four up front, then Muzzin, Holl, Brodie, Dermott.

You trade Rielly for flexibility. Should get a nice haul of moveable assets and cap space.

Next season:
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Brodie
Dermott - Liljegren

Leafs don't need Rielly. He's not a true 1D, can't play credible defense, and isn't a playdriver. He can rack up points, but I think a lot of guys can just by sliding the puck to Matthews/Marner on the PP.

Dont be dumb

 

[Critical13]

Protect 8. Big four up front, then Muzzin, Holl, Brodie, Dermott.

You trade Rielly for flexibility. Should get a nice haul of moveable assets and cap space.

Next season:
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Brodie
Dermott - Liljegren

Leafs don't need Rielly. He's not a true 1D, can't play credible defense, and isn't a playdriver. He can rack up points, but I think a lot of guys can just by sliding the puck to Matthews/Marner on the PP.

You would lose Hyman in that scenario.

 

[bossram]

Dont be dumb
View attachment 397941

Aaah yes, the infamous one-game sample size.

You would lose Hyman in that scenario.

He's a pending UFA. I mean, I guess Seattle could claim him, but then Hyman can just go to UFA anyway. Just have a handshake agreement in place to re-sign Hyman after the expansion draft.

 

[Notsince67]

Aaah yes, the infamous one-game sample size.



He's a pending UFA. I mean, I guess Seattle could claim him, but then Hyman can just go to UFA anyway. Just have a handshake agreement in place to re-sign Hyman after the expansion draft.

LMAO.
You folks take a few games and decide our stud dman in his eighth year is no longer worthy. I've published plenty on QOC (he has face some of the most difficult quality of competition weighted accross his minutes in the league for years). He eats minutes and puts up among the highest points among dmen in the league.
If you think a guy like Rielly is easy to find, you are playing too many video games. Yeah lets give up a #1D for nothing and spend a fortune in futures to get another one who will cost the moon in capspace. Makes total sense

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Give him his due Rielly was very very good last night ... if he plays like last night for rest of season then that is a different equation to consider ... no brutal pinches, no skating up ice as 4th forward with reckless abandon, no risky running around in his own end ... but keep a few timely rushes when we can stuck to bring puck up ice ... I think someone spoke to him and told him to settle down and play more team responsibly .. clearly he can play better .. da issue is will he revert to prior form against Habs on Saturday ... we will see?????????/

 

[bossram]

LMAO.
You folks take a few games and decide our stud dman in his eighth year is no longer worthy. I've published plenty on QOC (he has face some of the most difficult quality of competition weighted accross his minutes in the league for years). He eats minutes and puts up among the highest points among dmen in the league.
If you think a guy like Rielly is easy to find, you are playing too many video games. Yeah lets give up a #1D for nothing and spend a fortune in futures to get another one who will cost the moon in capspace. Makes total sense

He's not a true 1D. He can't play defense. Nylander defends the rush more effectively than him, for real. Rielly is what you get when you put an elite winger on defense. He's been like this his whole career, this isn't something new. He has outstanding offense but gives a lot of it back. And lol, you're the one posting a one-game chart and telling me I'm judging based on a few games.

It's so funny how so many people are like "points aren't everything" when criticizing some players, then immediately turn around and yell "LOOK AT THE POINTZZ" when evaluating other players. Erik Gustaffsson racked up 60 by sitting on an elite PP one year. I could get some points on Toronto's PP just by sliding the puck to Matthews or Marner.

Using RAPM (which controls for QoC, teammates, zone starts), Rielly has been one of the worst defensemen defensively over the last 3 years. Yah it's something to play tough minutes, but getting shelled in those tough minutes isn't a positive. And yes, he more than makes up for it offensively. But the end product is more of just a "good" defenseman, not a 1D. The Leafs will need to make hard decisions over who they retain in order to keep cap flexibility. Rielly will need a raise after next season. To me, Rielly is a guy who isn't vital to the team but will net a very nice return in a trade. His PP utility is replaceable, but at even strength he is a defensive liability.

 

[Notsince67]

He's not a true 1D. He can't play defense. Nylander defends the rush more effectively than him, for real. Rielly is what you get when you put an elite winger on defense. He's been like this his whole career, this isn't something new. He has outstanding offense but gives a lot of it back. And lol, you're the one posting a one-game chart and telling me I'm judging based on a few games.

It's so funny how so many people are like "points aren't everything" when criticizing some players, then immediately turn around and yell "LOOK AT THE POINTZZ" when evaluating other players. Erik Gustaffsson racked up 60 by sitting on an elite PP one year. I could get some points on Toronto's PP just by sliding the puck to Matthews or Marner.

Using RAPM (which controls for QoC, teammates, zone starts), Rielly has been one of the worst defensemen defensively over the last 3 years. Yah it's something to play tough minutes, but getting shelled in those tough minutes isn't a positive. And yes, he more than makes up for it offensively. But the end product is more of just a "good" defenseman, not a 1D. The Leafs will need to make hard decisions over who they retain in order to keep cap flexibility. Rielly will need a raise after next season. To me, Rielly is a guy who isn't vital to the team but will net a very nice return in a trade. His PP utility is replaceable, but at even strength he is a defensive liability.

List 31 dmen who are better.

 

[bossram]

List 31 dmen who are better.

I see you have no actual response, LOL.

 

[Critical13]

He's not a true 1D. He can't play defense. Nylander defends the rush more effectively than him, for real. Rielly is what you get when you put an elite winger on defense. He's been like this his whole career, this isn't something new. He has outstanding offense but gives a lot of it back. And lol, you're the one posting a one-game chart and telling me I'm judging based on a few games.

It's so funny how so many people are like "points aren't everything" when criticizing some players, then immediately turn around and yell "LOOK AT THE POINTZZ" when evaluating other players. Erik Gustaffsson racked up 60 by sitting on an elite PP one year. I could get some points on Toronto's PP just by sliding the puck to Matthews or Marner.

Using RAPM (which controls for QoC, teammates, zone starts), Rielly has been one of the worst defensemen defensively over the last 3 years. Yah it's something to play tough minutes, but getting shelled in those tough minutes isn't a positive. And yes, he more than makes up for it offensively. But the end product is more of just a "good" defenseman, not a 1D. The Leafs will need to make hard decisions over who they retain in order to keep cap flexibility. Rielly will need a raise after next season. To me, Rielly is a guy who isn't vital to the team but will net a very nice return in a trade. His PP utility is replaceable, but at even strength he is a defensive liability.

Agreed! And that matches the eye test. Rielly is stockpiling points by feeding it to players who are actually creating offence. I have only really see him drive plays on a dozen shifts this year, including power plays.

 

[Notsince67]

I see you have no actual response, LOL.

You can obfuscate all you want. Going through a long winded post with Rapm or whatever just gets past a simple smell test. There are 31 teams. Rielly in your mind is not a #1 so clearly there must be 31 better dmen. Name them and cut the bs.

 

[rumman]

List 31 dmen who are better.

I could name 31 D men I’d rather have than MR, but anyone obviously better wouldn’t fit cap wise and the rest would be better defenders with less offensive chops, something I’d be willing to accept, AND would improve the team imo.

 

[Notsince67]

I could name 31 D men I’d rather have than MR, but anyone obviously better wouldn’t fit cap wise and the rest would be better defenders with less offensive chops, something I’d be willing to accept, AND would improve the team imo.

Go ahead and try.
If you want to pick 2nd and third pairing dmen who you claim are #1 equivalents, Id be interested in seeing that.

 

[bossram]

You can obfuscate all you want. Going through a long winded post with Rapm or whatever just gets past a simple smell test. There are 31 teams. Rielly in your mind is not a #1 so clearly there must be 31 better dmen. Name them and cut the bs.

In no particular order, I would rank these players ahead of Rielly:

Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, Ryan Ellis, Charlie McAvoy, Ryan Pulock, Victor Hedman, Adam Fox, Jared Spurgeon, Alex Pietrangelo, Jonas Brodin, Miro Heiskanen, Mark Giordano, Torey Krug, Dougie Hamilton, Jake Muzzin, Kris Letang, Jake Muzzin, Matthias Ehkolm, Jaccob Slavin, Roman Josi, Aaron Ekblad, Shea Theodore, Jeff Petry, Thomas Chabot

So off the top of my head, that's 24 guys I would put ahead of Rielly. Then I'd throw him somewhere in the group of 19 below.

I would put Rielly somewhere in this group of names: Phillipe Myers, John Carlson, Travis Sanheim, Justin Holl, Colton Parayko, Rasmus Andersson, Mikhail Sergachev, Nate Schmidt, Brett Pesce, Ryan McDonagh, TJ Brodie, Hampus Lindholm, Samuel Girard, Mackenzie Weegar, Jakob Chychrun, Zack Werenski, Vladislav Gavrikov, Adam Pelech, Brandon Carlo, Devon Toews.

Split him somewhere in the middle of that second group and he's just outside the top-31. A good defenseman, but not elite, and not a 1D. I'm not saying Rielly is bad at all. But he has very glaring defensive deficiencies and I think the PP production is largely replaceable. The team has hard choices ahead of them to retain cap flexibility. Moving Rielly can alleviate cap concerns and net some serious assets in return.

Now I don't see you making any other legitimate arguments, so I'll consider this case closed.

 

[rumman]

In no particular order, I would rank these players ahead of Rielly:

Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, Ryan Ellis, Charlie McAvoy, Ryan Pulock, Victor Hedman, Adam Fox, Jared Spurgeon, Alex Pietrangelo, Jonas Brodin, Miro Heiskanen, Mark Giordano, Torey Krug, Dougie Hamilton, Jake Muzzin, Kris Letang, Jake Muzzin, Matthias Ehkolm, Jaccob Slavin, Roman Josi, Aaron Ekblad, Shea Theodore, Jeff Petry, Thomas Chabot

So off the top of my head, that's 24 guys I would put ahead of Rielly. Then I'd throw him somewhere in the group of 19 below.

I would put Rielly somewhere in this group of names: Phillipe Myers, John Carlson, Travis Sanheim, Justin Holl, Colton Parayko, Rasmus Andersson, Mikhail Sergachev, Nate Schmidt, Brett Pesce, Ryan McDonagh, TJ Brodie, Hampus Lindholm, Samuel Girard, Mackenzie Weegar, Jakob Chychrun, Zack Werenski, Vladislav Gavrikov, Adam Pelech, Brandon Carlo, Devon Toews.

Split him somewhere in the middle of that second group and he's just outside the top-31. A good defenseman, but not elite, and not a 1D. I'm not saying Rielly is bad at all. But he has very glaring defensive deficiencies and I think the PP production is largely replaceable. The team has hard choices ahead of them to retain cap flexibility. Moving Rielly can alleviate cap concerns and net some serious assets in return.

Now I don't see you making any other legitimate arguments, so I'll consider this case closed.

No Shea Weber?

 

[Notsince67]

In no particular order, I would rank these players ahead of Rielly:

Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, Ryan Ellis, Charlie McAvoy, Ryan Pulock, Victor Hedman, Adam Fox, Jared Spurgeon, Alex Pietrangelo, Jonas Brodin, Miro Heiskanen, Mark Giordano, Torey Krug, Dougie Hamilton, Jake Muzzin, Kris Letang, Jake Muzzin, Matthias Ehkolm, Jaccob Slavin, Roman Josi, Aaron Ekblad, Shea Theodore, Jeff Petry, Thomas Chabot

So off the top of my head, that's 24 guys I would put ahead of Rielly. Then I'd throw him somewhere in the group of 19 below.

I would put Rielly somewhere in this group of names: Phillipe Myers, John Carlson, Travis Sanheim, Justin Holl, Colton Parayko, Rasmus Andersson, Mikhail Sergachev, Nate Schmidt, Brett Pesce, Ryan McDonagh, TJ Brodie, Hampus Lindholm, Samuel Girard, Mackenzie Weegar, Jakob Chychrun, Zack Werenski, Vladislav Gavrikov, Adam Pelech, Brandon Carlo, Devon Toews.

Split him somewhere in the middle of that second group and he's just outside the top-31. A good defenseman, but not elite, and not a 1D. I'm not saying Rielly is bad at all. But he has very glaring defensive deficiencies and I think the PP production is largely replaceable. The team has hard choices ahead of them to retain cap flexibility. Moving Rielly can alleviate cap concerns and net some serious assets in return.

Now I don't see you making any other legitimate arguments, so I'll consider this case closed.

Is this a joke? You really believe the market for all these players are higher than Rielly?

....I mean ...Ekblad...pullock...sanheim...Myers...
This is moronic

 

[bossram]

No Shea Weber?

"Off the top of my head"...and kinda glancing at GAR/60 lists. I would still have Weber in the 2nd group.

 

[bossram]

Is this a joke? You really believe the market for all these players are higher than Rielly?

....I mean ...Ekblad...pullock...sanheim...Myers...
This is moronic

I never said "the market" values those players more. If you want to make an argument, make an accurate one.

You asked for a list of players I thought were better. Not "more valuable". I gave you that list. Additionally, I gave you a second list of players I think are comparable to Rielly in quality. A lot of those names you scoff at because they don't have the POINTZZ, but they can actually defend and the metrics back that up. For example, over the past 3 seasons by RAPM xGA, Ryan Pulock defends better than roughly 80% of defensemen in the NHL. Couple that with neutral offensive impact (but plus shooting talent), you have a very capable defender. Now Rielly is one of the most talented offensive defensemen in the league. But he's literally in the bottom 2.5% of defensive ability. The net impact at even strength doesn't end up being that large.

Now, I've given you statistical evidence. I've given you the list you asked for. You haven't made any legit arguments, so like I said earlier, I'll consider it case closed.

 

[rumman]

Is this a joke? You really believe the market for all these players are higher than Rielly?

....I mean ...Ekblad...pullock...sanheim...Myers...
This is moronic

I think Philippe Myers has huge upside.

 

[rumman]

Is this a joke? You really believe the market for all these players are higher than Rielly?

....I mean ...Ekblad...pullock...sanheim...Myers...
This is moronic

I think plenty of the players bossram mentioned would be a better fit than MR, maybe not better overall, but Leafs need defenders who can defend, so “better player” is too vague a term, criteria should be better “defensively.”

 

[Dayjobdave]

I think Morgan has been a great player for the Leafs and a great teammate. Personally I would keep him and I think he brings more offence than just feedin*the puck to Marner and watching what happens.

that being said, the cap makes this a discussion at least. And it is a tribute to the management that someone could make an argument for an acceptable d core without him that doesn’t also involve bringing in a d man from outside.

 

[Notsince67]

I never said "the market" values those players more. If you want to make an argument, make an accurate one.

You asked for a list of players I thought were better. Not "more valuable". I gave you that list. Additionally, I gave you a second list of players I think are comparable to Rielly in quality. A lot of those names you scoff at because they don't have the POINTZZ, but they can actually defend and the metrics back that up. For example, over the past 3 seasons by RAPM xGA, Ryan Pulock defends better than roughly 80% of defensemen in the NHL. Couple that with neutral offensive impact (but plus shooting talent), you have a very capable defender. Now Rielly is one of the most talented offensive defensemen in the league. But he's literally in the bottom 2.5% of defensive ability. The net impact at even strength doesn't end up being that large.

Now, I've given you statistical evidence. I've given you the list you asked for. You haven't made any legit arguments, so like I said earlier, I'll consider it case closed.

Wait. Your definition of better isnt related to market value? Why am I wasting my time?

 

[Notsince67]

I think plenty of the players bossram mentioned would be a better fit than MR, maybe not better overall, but Leafs need defenders who can defend, so “better player” is too vague a term, criteria should be better “defensively.”

Look. I can agree to listen to component discussions but when someone advocates we lose a person of Riellys value to Seattle for nothing, he is nothing but a troll.

 

[Notsince67]

I think Philippe Myers has huge upside.

Maybe but you trade Meyers 1 for 1 with Rielly and if not, why not? You might not like Rielly as a dman but saying he isnt a #1 D is ridiculous.