All Purpose Mitch Marner Talk II

[A1LeafNation]

If he plays like this, he is worth the 10.9m

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don’t care how many points he gets or how he gets them. He has to play defensively aware and I'm good. He’s the Nhl leading scorer for another day. I just know that motivates him just like it motivates McDavid. I don’t want him solely transfixed on offense like McDavid. He’s already plays a better defensive game than him but needs to continue widening the gap defensively.
Marner does loads of great nifty things offensively and is improving defensively.
He might win a scoring title or two in his career.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Honestly, why not? If the Leafs keep winning, and the games stay as close as they have been, he's obviously trusted to kill off those final minutes.

I've never understood the slander against EN goals. It means the coach wants you out there, and you have the puck despite being down a man.

Exactly. There is nothing else to it. Anybody seeing it any other way is underhanded

 

[Notsince67]

You really think it's possible he keeps scoring empty net goals at a rate of 2 goals every 7 games? Really?

This is a specious argument. you ignored everything else I said.
Just find some little explanation to slam the kid and explain away his performance.
Here is a hint...the great ones get a fair share of ENG including OVI, and Marner is a better puck retriever.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honestly, why not? If the Leafs keep winning, and the games stay as close as they have been, he's obviously trusted to kill off those final minutes.

I've never understood the slander against EN goals. It means the coach wants you out there, and you have the puck despite being down a man.

Seems almost impossible but your optimism in this regard does make me wonder what the record is for most empty net goals in a season by a single player. I do suspect it's well below 24 which is what he currently projects to over 82 games. I mean come on, 24 empty net goals? I'd guess the current record is under 10.

OK I just looked it up, Pavel Bure holds the record with 9 EN goals in one season. Yeah looks like I was right, it's not realistic to expect Marner to keep up the 24 RN goal pace for very long.

I wouldn't say slander but of course scoring on an empty net is nowhere near as difficult as scoring on a goalie.

Marner is one of the highest paid players in the world, he damn well better be one of the players the coach wants out there in any situation.

 

[dangomon]

Seems almost impossible but your optimism in this regard does make me wonder what the record is for most empty net goals in a season by a single player. I do suspect it's well below 24 which is what he currently projects to over 82 games. I mean come on, 24 empty net goals? I'd guess the current record is under 10.

OK I just looked it up, Pavel Bure holds the record with 9 EN goals in one season. Yeah looks like I was right, it's not realistic to expect Marner to keep up the 24 RN goal pace for very long.

I wouldn't say slander but of course scoring on an empty net is nowhere near as difficult as scoring on a goalie.

Marner is one of the highest paid players in the world, he damn well better be one of the players the coach wants out there in any situation.

Bolded is obviously true, no one can question that finishing that play is significantly easier (literally just hit the net). But the build up to that play is often more difficult (hence why a player as amazing as Bure could only manage 9 in one season).

You're right, current pace is unrealistic. But the rate at which the Leafs' are heading into the final minute with a 1 goal lead is also probably higher than you'd expect. Every game this year has been tight either way, causing a lot of empty nets (on both sides).

 

[LeafGrief]

Marner is playing well this year, a whole lot better than last year, but I still haven't been blown away by him at ES. Pretty happy with his PK'ing and closing out games, and you can't beat his PP production, but he's still not driving play at evens very well. His metrics are all pretty weak at 5on5.

I'm certainly not worried about him, he's miles better than he was last year, but he's not at the point yet where I'm back to fawning over his every move.

Interestingly, his xGF is actually pretty good, he's leading the team in that margin. He's doing well at generating scoring chances and even high danger chances. His metrics are just bad because he's getting caved in for chances against. For comparison, Matthews has 76 chances for at ES, Marner has 69. But Matthews only has 44 chances against and Marner has 63 against.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is a specious argument. you ignored everything else I said.
Just find some little explanation to slam the kid and explain away his performance.
Here is a hint...the great ones get a fair share of ENG including OVI, and Marner is a better puck retriever.

I said it was obvious Marner can't keep up the EN goal pace.

You replied with - nothing is obvious.

I responded to that particular point so it's not so much that I was ignoring the rest of your post, it's more like everything else you said I didn't have an issue with.

I'm not slamming the kid at all, just telling it like it is. He's a great player, the stats Zeke posted have him as the 11th best forward in the NHL (10-12 are tightly packed, he's between Point and Crosby). I'd say that's about right, fantastic player. He's not all that close to the top 5 though and I believe he's the 5th highest paid player in the NHL, that's not even factoring in all the front loading and bonus payments which make that contract even better. I'd say 99+% of people here agree he's overpaid which is all I'm saying. Maybe he'll get better, maybe we'll see him add a dangerous shot to his game and become a bigger scoring threat and reach that next level and earn his pay, that would be awesome.

He's overpaid but not by all that much. Best playmaker on the Leafs, maybe the best ever. Better?

But back to the original point, the current record for EN goals in a season is 9 held by Bure. I stand by what I said - expecting Marner to keep up a 24 EN goal pace is absurd. It's just not gonna happen, that's all there is to it.

 

[Notsince67]

Honestly, why not? If the Leafs keep winning, and the games stay as close as they have been, he's obviously trusted to kill off those final minutes.

I've never understood the slander against EN goals. It means the coach wants you out there, and you have the puck despite being down a man.

In 1999-2000, Bure put up 9 of them. Such a lucky player.

 

[Mickey Marner]

The top line has looked off to me all season, but that's okay as long as they get it together for the playoffs.

This team really needs an eighth top-9 forward. Right now we're Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot, Hyman, Mikheyev deep and then a bunch of fringe NHL'ers. Another quality forward would help a lot.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bolded is obviously true, no one can question that finishing that play is significantly easier (literally just hit the net). But the build up to that play is often more difficult (hence why a player as amazing as Bure could only manage 9 in one season).

You're right, current pace is unrealistic. But the rate at which the Leafs' are heading into the final minute with a 1 goal lead is also probably higher than you'd expect. Every game this year has been tight either way, causing a lot of empty nets (on both sides).

Yup, current pace is unrealistic. But maybe he'll break Bure's record one day, that's obviously in the realm of possibility. Not that it's a record I GAF about but whatever.

Marner is playing well this year, a whole lot better than last year, but I still haven't been blown away by him at ES. Pretty happy with his PK'ing and closing out games, and you can't beat his PP production, but he's still not driving play at evens very well. His metrics are all pretty weak at 5on5.

I'm certainly not worried about him, he's miles better than he was last year, but he's not at the point yet where I'm back to fawning over his every move.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The top line has looked off to me all season, but that's okay as long as they get it together for the playoffs.

This team really needs an eighth top-9 forward. Right now we're Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot, Hyman, Mikheyev deep and then a bunch of fringe NHL'ers. Another quality forward would help a lot.

This team's fine as long as they play up to their potential. The defence is a dream come true compared to previous years, our top end talent at the forward position is something most teams can only dream about so if our goaltending holds up and everyone else plays the way they can, we can play with anyone.

What we really need is for our goaltending to hold up. That's by far the biggest question mark, much more important then adding another forward. A team could always be better but if this 8th forward is our biggest issue, we're more than fine. JMHO.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don’t care how many points he gets or how he gets them. He has to play defensively aware and I'm good. He’s the Nhl leading scorer for another day. I just know that motivates him just like it motivates McDavid. I don’t want him solely transfixed on offense like McDavid. He’s already plays a better defensive game than him but needs to continue widening the gap defensively.
Marner does loads of great nifty things offensively and is improving defensively.
He might win a scoring title or two in his career.

With 2-3 minutes left in game Mitch was skating back at his own blue line with Flames in possession ... it was a 3 on 3 situation ... then Mitch lets his man go and for some unknown reason circles at blue line where Flames got a great high danger chance on resulting 3 on 2 ... clearly Matty was caught up ice and Mitch has to play centre in that situation and stay with opposing centre ... but he didn't he peeled off hoping to get quick breakout pass up ice on attack in a game we are winning 3-2 ... to me that says all you need to say to ur teammates first and then fans ... that is exactly what needs to change and fast ...

 

[Wafflewhipper]

With 2-3 minutes left in game Mitch was skating back at his own blue line with Flames in possession ... it was a 3 on 3 situation ... then Mitch lets his man go and for some unknown reason circles at blue line where Flames got a great high danger chance on resulting 3 on 2 ... clearly Matty was caught up ice and Mitch has to play centre in that situation and stay with opposing centre ... but he didn't he peeled off hoping to get quick breakout pass up ice on attack in a game we are winning 3-2 ... to me that says all you need to say to ur teammates first and then fans ... that is exactly what needs to change and fast ...

I was cursing him on that. You can’t do that. I don’t know what that was. It’s infuriating to me. Keefe likely wasn’t very happy with many players yesterday. I see the win but it’s nit a reason to ignore the crap misplays. Yes they need fixing fast. I seen it too and pretty much came unglued ha

 

[Gary Nylund]

I was cursing him on that. You can’t do that. I don’t know what that was. It’s infuriating to me. Keefe likely wasn’t very happy with many players yesterday. I see the win but it’s nit a reason to ignore the crap misplays. Yes they need fixing fast. I seen it too and pretty much came unglued ha

Careful now, you may get grief for "hating" on the kid.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Careful now, you may get grief for "hating" on the kid.

Yeah but I don’t. He’s great lots and stupid sometimes too.

 

[horner]

This is a specious argument. you ignored everything else I said.
Just find some little explanation to slam the kid and explain away his performance.
Here is a hint...the great ones get a fair share of ENG including OVI, and Marner is a better puck retriever.

I agree
He is in the right place to score those goals.
Some people just can't enjoy they need to bitch .

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I agree
He is in the right place to score those goals.
Some people just can't enjoy they need to bitch .

Lol true

 

[HarryLime]

Impressive start to the season but he needs to bring it in the playoffs for me to get over last year and the salary. Against a team like Montreal I fear he'd get bodied.

 

[horner]

Impressive start to the season but he needs to bring it in the playoffs for me to get over last year and the salary. Against a team like Montreal I fear he'd get bodied.

Wait till we get there .
Relax just enjoy.

 

[horner]

The crazy part is he and Mathews can be better 5 on 5 .
Wait till they really get in a grove..
No exhibition games either.
Enjoy

 

[Dekes For Days]

He's been pretty lucky so far this season.

EN points aside, his underlying numbers are not abnormal or particularly "lucky". One could just as easily say he's been unlucky, as every single one of his points has been a primary point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Impressive start to the season but he needs to bring it in the playoffs for me to get over last year and the salary. Against a team like Montreal I fear he'd get bodied.

Agree 100%. I don't care if he puts up 120 points in 56 games, if he's mediocre and "not physically engaged" again in the playoffs it means squat to me. Put up 48 points in 56 games instead but follow it up with 26 points in 26 playoff games and I'll be his biggest fan.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He's been pretty lucky so far this season. If I'm not mistaken, two of his 4 goals are empty netters, it's obvious he can't keep up that pace for an entire season and the two assists last night were nothing spectacular for sure considering how fluky the goals themselves were. Not hating on the kid or anything (though I do think he's overpaid) but his point producing pace after 7 games doesn't mean much.

Wouldn't you agree that Marner is off to a better start compared to last season?

 

[LeafsNation75]

The top line has looked off to me all season, but that's okay as long as they get it together for the playoffs.

This team really needs an eighth top-9 forward. Right now we're Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot, Hyman, Mikheyev deep and then a bunch of fringe NHL'ers. Another quality forward would help a lot.

How much of that was Matthews and Marner adjusting to playing with Thornton instead of Hyman?