Speculation: All Purpose LA Kings 2013-14 Trade Speculation/Rumors Part IV

[KingKopitar11*]

Eloquently stating what everyone thinks. Like always.

And I just noticed your avatar is gone...

Mods always targeting me. Lol.

 

[DocWest]

Nope. Private talks with people I'm not willing to share. But what I can say is there are very distinct reasons why he's made it this far that a lot of you people underestimate and don't realize hold a lot of value.

 

[gonnaneedsomewine]

There is way too much West Coast ignorance here as it pertains to Grabner with people calling him a 30 goal scorer and saying he's better than Cogliano. He is blazing fast and that's about it. Yeah he has a "30 goal season" but he is not that type of annual 30 goal scorer. He's not even a top 6 player on a good team like LA. He can't even crack the top 6 or PP units on the lowly Islanders. There's no shot I'm giving up a young guy like Pearson or Vey for him.

I'm not a big fan of any of these alleged targets for the Kings like Moulson or Vanek or Grabner or MacDonald. The only guy that's been talked about that I like as a player is Sam Gagner. He's a bit finesse but is a very good skater with a tremendous set of hands and brings some playmaking and speed to the forward position. I just wish he was a winger with a left-handed shot because there's really no room for him at center with Kopitar and Richards and we are so right handed shot heavy on the wings.

However, I'd still take Gagner and his reasonable cap hit (IMO) and move him to the wing like we did with Carter, as I think Gagner's style of play is better suited for the wing anyway and he would flourish there because he is not really a strong/physical defensive presence down the middle and would not be burdened with as many defensive responsibilities

 

[Reclamation Project]

Yeah, I noticed that too. He's always thought he's better than us and has never shied away from showing it. It's his world, we just troll in it.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

So what does Cogliano have that Grabner doesn't?

 

[damacles1156]

Muzzin has all the tools to be a legit Top 4 Defender, his brain just needs to catch up.

That is why he is receiving the ice time, and opportunity to do so with the Kings.

When Muzzin is playing with confidence, he is a very good defender.

The kid is just inconsistent, but that's normal for young guys with under 150 NHL games.

He is not as good as some make him out to be, he is also not as bad as people make him out to be.

He is in the middle.

110 NHL games 11G 23A 34P +17. Not bad for a 24 year old.

Plenty of young Defenders, have done far worse.

 

[NikF]

Muzzin has some pretty decent offensive ability once the puck is already in the offensive zone. His physical tools are pretty good as well. If his reads and his puck-movement in transition settings pick up he'll make a solid top 4.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Muzzin has all the tools to be a legit Top 4 Defender, his brain just needs to catch up.

That is why he is receiving the ice time, and opportunity to do so with the Kings.

When Muzzin is playing with confidence, he is a very good defender.

The kid is just inconsistent, but that's normal for young guys with under 150 NHL games.

He is not as good as some make him out to be, he is also not as bad as people make him out to be.

He is in the middle.

His toolbox is on Pluto. He's not very bright. He has decent moments, and moments where you think he is impersonating charlie chapelin. I think you confuse his recklessness for confidence.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Mods always targeting me. Lol.

You have a target on your chest!

 

[KingKopitar11*]

You have a target on your chest!

Lol. Pretty much, but damn finlands jersey is always one of my favorites. Russia's is always the best though

 

[Reclamation Project]

Lol. Pretty much, but damn finlands jersey is always one of my favorites. Russia's is always the best though

Japan looks badass. The black with red captaincy letters looks incredible.

But I'm always in the minority as I LOVE all black gear. I'd buy one right now, but I can't find them anywhere. Too fly.

 

[gonnaneedsomewine]

So what does Cogliano have that Grabner doesn't?

Cogliano is a much better two way player IMO, and despite his lack of size plays a much "grittier" game than Grabner. Grabner is a very soft player. Cogilano is undoubtedly better defensively and definitely has better "hockey sense" than Grabner. Grabner is a great skater but offers virtually nothing else. His 30 goal season was more of a fluke than an actual representation of who he truly is.

I just believe Cogliano can impact the game in more ways than Grabner. You can rely on Cogliano to play a solid two way game, he's a better facilitator than Grabner, he can kill penalties and also chip in offensively, he can play in the top 6 if you need him to or he can play in the bottom 6. Yeah, looking at the stat sheet you may be unimpressed, but when you watch the game and see Cogliano out there, you can tell he clearly helps his team more than Grabner does.

I also think Cogliano and Gagner are sometimes undervalued by fans because they came out of the gate on fire as rookies, looking like the next big things and set expectations so high that people are disappointed that they are not Taylor Hall or Nugent-Hopkins level type of players. Both are good, productive NHL players who have their flaws but also have a great deal to offer to their team.

 

[Trolfoli]

I enjoy going to the other teams section and reading up on the guys that are getting over hyped on the trade section.

Grabner
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1597923

MacDonald
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1526993

Muzzin is just going to take time to develop. If the Kings were looking at a deep playoff run this year, Muzzin as a top pairing isn't going to work. Since that's less likely at this point and the Kings may need to do a slight re-tool Muzzin's just fine.

Then the Kings could come back from the break re-energized and just blow it up like we know they're capable of. Guess we'll see.

 

[CNS]

Yeah, I noticed that too. He's always thought he's better than us and has never shied away from showing it. It's his world, we just troll in it.

This is very true.

But I am better than you. There's just no debate there.

 

[TROLLCHUK]

I enjoy going to the other teams section and reading up on the guys that are getting over hyped on the trade section.

Grabner
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1597923

MacDonald
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1526993

Muzzin is just going to take time to develop. If the Kings were looking at a deep playoff run this year, Muzzin as a top pairing isn't going to work. Since that's less likely at this point and the Kings may need to do a slight re-tool Muzzin's just fine.

Then the Kings could come back from the break re-energized and just blow it up like we know they're capable of. Guess we'll see.

Hey, stop looking at our posts bashing our trade bait!!!!

Those two are awesome! You will trade us you Jones, Muzzin and Toffoli.

BTW, looking at your user name, are we related?

 

[Duc620]

Regarding Muzzin: the thing I see this year is that the number of mistakes is reduced and his big "what the hell do I do ??" mistakes are down. He is now making mistakes while making the correct decision - a vital improvement in his development - but still makes rookie errors in a technical sense; for instance, the wrong pace on a pass; or from a lack of experience; as in, "in this situation (score, zone, momentum) this play off the glass always works - I'll make it my go to play". But, his basic athleticism and reach are going to make him a very good D in a couple of years.

The difference between him and Jack Johnson is palpable. JJ often plays as if there was only one way to play D - the Jack Johnson Way. It's as if he is not only ignoring system and instruction - it's not even on his radar.

Muzzin is the exact opposite. He tries so hard to make exactly the correct decision you can see him going through the steps to make plays exactly how the coaches want him to make them. With time and after those decisions become instinctive he will be the player scouts and coaches see in him. We will be very happy when that happens.

I'd rather he made those mistakes in first half games under real pressure - and playing for the KINGS - because that's how you grow real solid players and a team of players who play together for years.

Detroit's done this for decades. Look what they're doing right now - they brought in a bunch of their minor players and the team is still playing at a very high level while their stars are out with injuries.

GKG!!

 

[santiclaws]

There is no mystery as to what people see in Muzzin. He has all the tools. What he lacks is experience. What are you people expecting out of a guy who is 24 and has about 90 games of NHL experience. No mistakes? Few mistakes? It doesn't work that way, unless you're truly a premier player like a Doughty. There is a steep learning curve for a majority of defensemen breaking into the NHL. Scuderi was a pretty good defensive player for us, you'd agree? He wasn't good enough to play in the NHL at all until he was what, 26? Mitchell didn't play a full season in the NHL until 26 either, and he made a ton of mistakes as well.There was this huge, Slovakian defenseman who the Islanders gave up on because he was making a ton of mistakes in his own zone. Anyone know what happened to him? And thankfully, the Kings were so right to get rid of Larry Murphy before he became an even bigger burden. Darryl Sydor, too. So, yes, we should give up on Muzzin immediately. He'll never amount to anything because we know from previous experience that young defensemen never improve.

 

[The Tikkanen]

There is no mystery as to what people see in Muzzin. He has all the tools. What he lacks is experience. What are you people expecting out of a guy who is 24 and has about 90 games of NHL experience. No mistakes? Few mistakes? It doesn't work that way, unless you're truly a premier player like a Doughty. There is a steep learning curve for a majority of defensemen breaking into the NHL. Scuderi was a pretty good defensive player for us, you'd agree? He wasn't good enough to play in the NHL at all until he was what, 26? Mitchell didn't play a full season in the NHL until 26 either, and he made a ton of mistakes as well.There was this huge, Slovakian defenseman who the Islanders gave up on because he was making a ton of mistakes in his own zone. Anyone know what happened to him? And thankfully, the Kings were so right to get rid of Larry Murphy before he became an even bigger burden. Darryl Sydor, too. So, yes, we should give up on Muzzin immediately. He'll never amount to anything because we know from previous experience that young defensemen never improve.

Solid points, the Kings have done a great job in the past of unloading defensemen before it was time to unload them-young and old. With Doughty, Muzzin and Voynov the Kings are in a good position for years to come since they can shuffle stay at home dmen for the other 3 spots or possibly develop a quality stay at home-much harder to find good, young offensive defensemen. With young defenders you have to give them the benefit of the doubt and then once you want to trade them give them some more which is hard if you're a fan.

 

[bmr]

After pondering this team for quite some time, I think I figured out the best move for the Kings:

As far as the trade market goes - i'm not liking anything i'm seeing out there. We need a PLAYOFF performer and that all points to Briere. We know that he's played with Carter/Richards and he has done very well. Put Toffoli/Kopitar/Williams on the top line and then put King/Stoll/Brown on the third. Those are 3 very good lines. Then you can use the remaining guys to create the 4th.

As far as defense - that's a big question mark for me. I might be willing to give Muzzin another chance. He thinks too much. He needs to just play extremely physical and make decisive passes with the puck. When he does that, he's one of the best on the team.

Honestly, I think that 1 move would create ripple effects on this team that would help us tremendously, especially on the PP. We could roll 2 very good lines with a new look.

What you guys think?

 

[YP44]

anyone think DL goes after Lubo? He still has one year on his deal would help our PP, and maybe with the Islanders not wanting him to go to Sochi there could be some hostility there.

 

[Duc620]

Best guess on personnel moves? Major move: DL goes for a proven stay-at-home physical D from a team falling out of contention. Minor move: a solid mid level left wing - one who will not excite most King fans.

nice post Santiclaws...great examples of players lost in the "Pre-Development Program" Kings system.

 

[Bandit]

There is no mystery as to what people see in Muzzin. He has all the tools. What he lacks is experience. What are you people expecting out of a guy who is 24 and has about 90 games of NHL experience. No mistakes? Few mistakes? It doesn't work that way, unless you're truly a premier player like a Doughty. There is a steep learning curve for a majority of defensemen breaking into the NHL. Scuderi was a pretty good defensive player for us, you'd agree? He wasn't good enough to play in the NHL at all until he was what, 26? Mitchell didn't play a full season in the NHL until 26 either, and he made a ton of mistakes as well.There was this huge, Slovakian defenseman who the Islanders gave up on because he was making a ton of mistakes in his own zone. Anyone know what happened to him? And thankfully, the Kings were so right to get rid of Larry Murphy before he became an even bigger burden. Darryl Sydor, too. So, yes, we should give up on Muzzin immediately. He'll never amount to anything because we know from previous experience that young defensemen never improve.

The problem is that while he's learning he's dragging down our best defenseman. That of course is not so much a Muzzin problem as it is a Lombardi problem. But ideally when you're breaking in a rookie who is not of the Blake/Doughty/Weber/Suter caliber, you would do it somewhere other than on your top pair.

 

[Reclamation Project]

This is very true.

But I am better than you. There's just no debate there.

I had In-N-Out for lunch.

 

[King'sPawn]

Well it certainly isn't his passing or shooting because he tends to miss his targets or shoot into shinpads, so the only thing left is either his skating (which I don't think is all that great to be honest with you) or his ability to rush the puck up the ice, which is better than half the dmen on the roster, but still prone to mistakes from time to time.

The fact you mention only four qualities you are evaluating him on demonstrates why a large portion of people have uninformed evaluations.

You're great Ziggy, but there are honestly so many things that are overlooked on the ice as well as off ice factors which influence value in these players. There's a smidgeon I know but am on the phone and this is already too annoying to write.

 

[onlyalad]

The problem is we want a 75 inch TV but only have a 32 inch budget. We are trying to turn in some used games to cover the rest but all the stores are already loaded on the games we want to sell.
I dont think a big trade happens.