Speculation: All Purpose LA Kings 2013-14 Trade Speculation/Rumors Part IV

[kingsfan28]

Not commenting on whether I agree with it or not, the logic is that the players just aren't performing/executing, and that's already got one coach canned--it's time to hold the players accountable before canning another coach. But you're also saying "IF" it's the coach, right? So if it really is the coach and it's totally apparent (which I'm not so sure it is), then yeah, it would be silly to place blame elsewhere.



Again, though, I don't really disagree with damacles. I think reality is closer to the middle. Our system had worked since Sutter's arrival--but he now needs to adjust. He needs to rework the system a little to fit the personnel because he needs to get the most out of his players the way Babcock seems to be able to do with Doughty, never mind the all-too-predictable elements of the system (i.e. I shouldn't be able to completely negate the Kings breakout by sitting on the winger at the faceoff dot).

I think you're right, but is Sutter capable of doing that? He seems very stubborn and set in his ways. We've had problems with certain teams this season and in the playoffs, and I've yet to see him make the adjustments to win the games.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Not commenting on whether I agree with it or not, the logic is that the players just aren't performing/executing, and that's already got one coach canned--it's time to hold the players accountable before canning another coach. But you're also saying "IF" it's the coach, right? So if it really is the coach and it's totally apparent (which I'm not so sure it is), then yeah, it would be silly to place blame elsewhere.

But your argument isn't logic.

You're saying that it's players' turn to be accountable, because their lack of performance in the past has already terminated one coach, and now, it's the players turn. That's NOT logic. That's just your personal opinion.

Logic is, if a team as a whole, and not just individual players are playing poorly, then there's something wrong with the system/coach. I don't care if we have to fire the coach 10 times in a row. If the right decision based on logic, is to fire the coach, then so be it.

The way it looks right now, even if we did move player(s), is that a permanent fix or just a bandaid over an open wound?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think you're right, but is Sutter capable of doing that? He seems very stubborn and set in his ways. We've had problems with certain teams this season and in the playoffs, and I've yet to see him make the adjustments to win the games.

I'm not so sure that he is, which is why, imo, this last home stretch and potential playoff run will tell us a lot about who this team/coach are and decide what path we face next season.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

But your argument isn't logic.

You're saying that it's players' turn to be accountable, because their lack of performance in the past has already terminated one coach, and now, it's the players turn. That's NOT logic. That's just your personal opinion.

Logic is, if a team as a whole, and not just individual players are playing poorly, then there's something wrong with the system/coach. I don't care if we have to fire the coach 10 times in a row. If the right decision based on logic, is to fire the coach, then so be it.

The way it looks right now, even if we did move player(s), is that a permanent fix or just a bandaid over an open wound?

Hey, it's not MY argument Just trying to see what says that. I just don't think it's as simple as alternating blame.

(Edit: my personal feeling is that this is a competitive roster and should be a home-ice playoff team in any division, so if they fall short, barring excessive injuries that we don't have, coaching/management heads are gonna roll)

I agree with you wholeheartedly that any moves we make at the deadline aren't going to magically move us from the 29th offense to the top 10. The guys on the current team and the team as a whole need to perform.

 

[KINGS17]

Last season the Kings finished in the Top 10 in the NHL in goals for, was the system a problem then, or were the players simply better at executing it?

The "system" is a proven winner when played well, especially in the playoffs. Should the Kings play differently in the regular season, or should they play the system that they will use in the playoffs?

But yeah, let's fire Sutter because his "system" no longer works. I will include one caveat, if Sutter has lost the room and the players no longer want to put out the effort required to win hockey games then Dean has a different task. He either weeds out the malcontents or he fires Sutter, or does both.

 

[Herby]

Agree with most people here, the Kings system is never going to be explosive offensively, but in the past it has scored enough to win games.

The reason the Kings aren't scoring as many goals as they did last year is because certain players are just not producing. You can't blame the system that Brown has 17 points in 60 games, Richards has 3 ES goals in 60 games, Williams may not crack 40 points and Voynov has regressed offensively. Those guys have just sucked and are the biggest reason our offense ranks 29th.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I think you're right, but is Sutter capable of doing that? He seems very stubborn and set in his ways. We've had problems with certain teams this season and in the playoffs, and I've yet to see him make the adjustments to win the games.

That's why he's gotten fired before. The same reason you've stated was the reason he's been fired by a couple teams. He's too stubborn.

 

[KINGS17]

That's why he's gotten fired before. The same reason you've stated was the reason he's been fired by a couple teams. He's too stubborn.

Really? Give us more details on why in your opinion he was fired in San Jose.

He wasn't fired as a coach in Calgary.

The rest is ancient history.

 

[Face Wash]

Breakouts are a huge deal...speed through the neutral zone is affected by that, bad luck has been involved (i.e.: Detroit), and guys not producing as we've been accustomed to. All have lead to this down turn. A Lack of discipline has also been a huge contributor. The Kings play a wear down style but they can't wear teams down when their best players have to be hard minutes killing more minor penalties than most other teams have to.

Look: I've always likened the Kings situation to the Lakers situation circa the late 90's. They had a young up and coming team (with Shaq & Kobe) learning how to play with an even-tempered X's and O's "teaching" coach named Del Harris. These players learned how to be professionals with Del, but despite having been to the NBA Finals once (with HOU) Del wasn't a "championship" coach. Del's fired after a sub-par start in 1998. The next season Phil is hired, brings in a boring uneventful but proven system (triangle) and the Lakers go to 7 NBA Finals and win 5 of them. The system didn't win it for them... their execution of the system, with the great veteran talent they had are what won it.

Same for the Kings...Terry Murray another even tempered X's and O's coach, teaches them about defensive hockey and the "value of checking", gets them to a certain point, then when the message grew stale as it did with Del Harris and the Lakers, Lombardi brings in a more aggressive system based more on breakouts and puck possession and clogging up the neutral zone without compromising defense...they bring in some offense (Carter) and the rest is history.

The Triangle is as old as basketball but when great players buy into an old but proven system...it doesn't matter, you'll win way more than you lose and win championships.

Same with the way the Kings play. Their system is older than Bobby Orr, and they won a championship with these guys, so it's proven. They just aren't executing. It's possible they may not have enough of the right talent to execute it properly, (although they did get off to the best start in franchise history hard as it might be to believe right now) and it's possible some guys may not be buying in right now, but while they're a boring hard team to watch play even when they win, I'm done criticizing the system. I've seen it work to a tee. I do think some talent adjustments need to be made and some guys need to step up or be sent out, but they need to execute better, that's for sure.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Really? Give us more details on why in your opinion he was fired in San Jose.

He wasn't fired as a coach in Calgary.

The rest is ancient history.

I read the Sharks board. I listened to their fans. You should go check it out.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I read the Sharks board. I listened to their fans. You should go check it out.

The holdouts from Nabokov and Brad Stuart were two big reasons why the Sharks had such a poor record that season. I thought Sutter worked marvels with what little talent he had to work with in San Jose.

 

[KINGS17]

I read the Sharks board. I listened to their fans. You should go check it out.

You mean you listen to the same type of fickle fans we have around here and take it as gospel, because I could have sworn that it had something to do with the holdouts of a couple of key players, sprinkled in with an injury or two, and some crappy attitudes caused by the issues I just mentioned.

I can read, I just am selective in the written word that I take seriously in forming an opinion.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Whether Sutter's system worked last year or not is irrelevant. The fact is, it doesn't seem to be working now. Who knows...it could very well be that Sutter has lost the team, much like Murray did. The team may have just tuned him out. Why is that not possible?

Having said that, I am willing to give Sutter little more time, but if the team continues to struggle like they have this new year, then it's sayonara Sutter!

 

[KINGS17]

Whether Sutter's system worked last year or not is irrelevant. The fact is, it doesn't seem to be working now. Who knows...it could very well be that Sutter has lost the team, much like Murray did. The team may have just tuned him out. Why is that not possible?

Having said that, I am willing to give Sutter little more time, but if the team continues to struggle like they have this new year, then it's sayonara Sutter!

Wow, that's mighty generous of you. Was his "system" working when the team got off to the best start in franchise history or was that just luck?

It's possible that some players may have tuned Sutter out. If that has happened again, I would say it's time to swap a few receivers, not the transmitter. Changing a few receivers might do wonders for the ability of the others to tune in.

 

[Trolfoli]

3rd discussion about Sutter/System...

Nothing to see here. Move along....

 

[HYORI 1963]

Wow, that's mighty generous of you. Was his "system" working when the team got off to the best start in franchise history or was that just luck?

What part of "the team may have tuned him out" do you not understand?

It's possible that some players may have tuned Sutter out. If that has happened again, I would say it's time to swap a few receivers, not the transmitter. Changing a few receivers might do wonders for the ability of the others to tune in.

In case you haven't watched many kings games this year, it's not a just a few players. The entire team has looked like a crap.

And I don't buy into your thinking that the blame should alternate. Where's the logic in that?

 

[Face Wash]

Whether Sutter's system worked last year or not is irrelevant. The fact is, it doesn't seem to be working now. Who knows...it could very well be that Sutter has lost the team, much like Murray did. The team may have just tuned him out. Why is that not possible?

They win a Cup, Then go to the WCFs, then get off to the best start in team history and all of a sudden he loses the team within a poor stretch of games from around XMAS to the Olympic break? Makes no sense unless he's actually done something to one or two players on the team...like a Dry Island thing or has been harassing a player or two which we would have heard about by now.

I don't like Sutter personally because he has poor communication skills which I think especially in LA are very important, but you're saying he's lost this team in the last 22 games after the team had it's most successful run in franchise history over two playoffs and about 100+ regular season games. I'm not buying it.

Having said that, I am willing to give Sutter little more time

Sutter called, he says "thanks...I appreciate the extra time you're giving me. Oh and by the way, it's a 3-2 league."

 

[Reaper45]

Lack of speed on d and the team in general, lack of production from the team as a whole. But definitely need more speed and better passing on d.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Sutter called, he says "thanks...I appreciate the extra time you're giving me. Oh and by the way, it's a 3-2 league."

Awesome!

Oh, and tell Sutter, more 3s and less 2s.

 

[KINGS17]

What part of "the team may have tuned him out" do you not understand?




In case you haven't watched many kings games this year, it's not a just a few players. The entire team has looked like a crap.

And I don't buy into your thinking that the blame should alternate. Where's the logic in that?

You really think that the entire team has tuned him out? Trust me if there is a problem like that, there is at least one ring leader. Dean's job would then be to decide if he should trade the ring leader(s) or fire the coach.

What kind of message does hiring a 3rd coach in less than 2 full seasons (in terms of the number of games played) send to the players in the room? Who is the boss, Dean or some select players?

Also, I would refer you to some of the players interviewed right before the Olympic break that quite candidly took responsibility for the recent poor play of the team.

I'm not saying the blame should alternate, I'm saying the crappy play over the last 15-20 games is the players' fault.

 

[KINGS17]

Lack of speed on d and the team in general, lack of production from the team as a whole. But definitely need more speed and better passing on d.

I tend to agree, and this may require some personnel changes. I have said that I would like to see Martinez in over Greene/Regehr. I'm concerned that Mitchell can no longer handle the kind of minutes the Kings need him to play against top-notch competition.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Also a crappy stretch of scheduling vs. all the best teams in the league. All the mileage and time zones. Sicknesses. Not finding scapegoats, but I'm sure this all contributed to the team funk. I think we all agree this is a high-energy system; it's hard to work that so well when you're playing 7 games in 11 nights in the farthest corners of the league after playing more hockey than any other team the last two years.

I'm willing to see how things shake out after the break. I'll be madder than anyone else if they continue down the same path, but I don't think that's likely.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Lack of speed on d and the team in general, lack of production from the team as a whole. But definitely need more speed and better passing on d.

And a lack of simple execution. Stringing passes together decisively tends to make you look quicker.

 

[KINGS17]

Also a crappy stretch of scheduling vs. all the best teams in the league. All the mileage and time zones. Sicknesses. Not finding scapegoats, but I'm sure this all contributed to the team funk. I think we all agree this is a high-energy system; it's hard to work that so well when you're playing 7 games in 11 nights in the farthest corners of the league after playing more hockey than any other team the last two years.

I'm willing to see how things shake out after the break. I'll be madder than anyone else if they continue down the same path, but I don't think that's likely.

A good point. The Kings play a style that is intended to grind the other team into a sticky paste during a 7-game series, not free-wheel their way to a win in the 5th game in 9 nights.

 

[HYORI 1963]

You really think that the entire team has tuned him out? Trust me if there is a problem like that, there is at least one ring leader. Dean's job would then be to decide if he should trade the ring leader(s) or fire the coach.

Unlike you, I'm keeping an open mind, and saying it's a possibility. Besides, where are you coming up with this "ring leader" nonsense? Who was the ring leader when Murray got fired?

What kind of message does hiring a 3rd coach in less than 2 full seasons (in terms of the number of games played) send to the players in the room? Who is the boss, Dean or some select players?

Who cares about a ****in message? You can worry about the drama and the message. I only care about winning another cup.

Also, I would refer you to some of the players interviewed right before the Olympic break that quite candidly took responsibility for the recent poor play of the team.

Shocking!

I'm not saying the blame should alternate, I'm saying the crappy play over the last 15-20 games is the players' fault.

How so?