Rumor: ALL PURPOSE JT MILLER THREAD PT2 - It's Been 84 Years....
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Here is one for you.........................
Washington.........Eller(Cap dump), McMichaels, Iorio, 2022-1st, 2023-2nd
for
Vancouver.............Miller 50% retained and Hoglander, and 2023-3rd
Washington.........Eller(Cap dump), McMichaels, Iorio, 2022-1st, 2023-2nd
for
Vancouver.............Miller 50% retained and Hoglander, and 2023-3rd
Tob
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2017
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I don't know if it's a useful exercise or a fair way to think about the flat cap and acquisition cost this way but say you are Tom Fitzgerald and you have 2 proposals on tap a month ago.
Ty Smith+3rd for Marino (5YRSX4.4M) and 3rd+4th for Bjornstrand (4YRSX5.4M). Or you have something that the Canucks are asking for 2023 1st, roster player, top prospect which for the sake of argument I will go with 2023 NJD 1st, Haula, and Holtz (Haula is meh but Holtz is a good pick up so I am sticking with that to balance out the value,). Miller comes with a Mika Zibanejad or F.Forsberg type extention is place. He is 2 years older so 6YRSX$8.5M which I think is a very fair end of day contract, it could even be 7 years if the newly acquired player has all the leverage in extension talks.
If you're Fitzgerald, do you go with Bjornstrand (27-30), Marino (25-29) signed throughout their prime at combined $9.8M while giving up Ty Smith, 3rd, 3rd, 4th and retaining 2023 1st, Haula, Holtz or do you go with Miller (30 at $5.5M, 31-36 at $8.5M) while giving up 2023 1st, Haula, Holtz and retaining Ty Smith, 3rd, 3rd, 4th. The extra defenseman you'll need to fill Marino's spot in the Miller route is going to cost another at least $1M in cap so the cap usage washes.
Year 1 with Miller at his prime, age 30 at $5.5M, I would take Miller that year. Year 2 Miller's raise kicks in and the cap between Scenario 1 and 2 is a wash. If Miller is a 90+ point player I would give the win to Miller route assuming Holtz isn't bashing heads in the NHL yet. If in year 3 Miller (age 32) is a 70-80 point player, the overall value of having 2 ELCs ready to help (2023 1st rounder, Holtz) and still in their prime Bjron (29) and Marino (27) may very easily outweight Miller as a 70-80 point player at $8.5M.
There are only going to be more and more of these Marino and Bjornstrand trade opportunities for GMs that have cap space and keep it open until another GM is backed into a corner.
For players in their prime like Fiala and Tkachuk, the acquisition cost can be justified. Miller's value has always had to be a deadline no cap no worries no extension type of a return. unsurprising he didn't go last season or so far. Miller is worth too much to the Canucks' chances next season to simply do what Kyle Davidson is doing when he knows he's tanking and should get the rebuild started ASAP even if the value isn't great.
Ty Smith+3rd for Marino (5YRSX4.4M) and 3rd+4th for Bjornstrand (4YRSX5.4M). Or you have something that the Canucks are asking for 2023 1st, roster player, top prospect which for the sake of argument I will go with 2023 NJD 1st, Haula, and Holtz (Haula is meh but Holtz is a good pick up so I am sticking with that to balance out the value,). Miller comes with a Mika Zibanejad or F.Forsberg type extention is place. He is 2 years older so 6YRSX$8.5M which I think is a very fair end of day contract, it could even be 7 years if the newly acquired player has all the leverage in extension talks.
If you're Fitzgerald, do you go with Bjornstrand (27-30), Marino (25-29) signed throughout their prime at combined $9.8M while giving up Ty Smith, 3rd, 3rd, 4th and retaining 2023 1st, Haula, Holtz or do you go with Miller (30 at $5.5M, 31-36 at $8.5M) while giving up 2023 1st, Haula, Holtz and retaining Ty Smith, 3rd, 3rd, 4th. The extra defenseman you'll need to fill Marino's spot in the Miller route is going to cost another at least $1M in cap so the cap usage washes.
Year 1 with Miller at his prime, age 30 at $5.5M, I would take Miller that year. Year 2 Miller's raise kicks in and the cap between Scenario 1 and 2 is a wash. If Miller is a 90+ point player I would give the win to Miller route assuming Holtz isn't bashing heads in the NHL yet. If in year 3 Miller (age 32) is a 70-80 point player, the overall value of having 2 ELCs ready to help (2023 1st rounder, Holtz) and still in their prime Bjron (29) and Marino (27) may very easily outweight Miller as a 70-80 point player at $8.5M.
There are only going to be more and more of these Marino and Bjornstrand trade opportunities for GMs that have cap space and keep it open until another GM is backed into a corner.
For players in their prime like Fiala and Tkachuk, the acquisition cost can be justified. Miller's value has always had to be a deadline no cap no worries no extension type of a return. unsurprising he didn't go last season or so far. Miller is worth too much to the Canucks' chances next season to simply do what Kyle Davidson is doing when he knows he's tanking and should get the rebuild started ASAP even if the value isn't great.
To Vancouver:
Brett Pesce
Martin Necas
2023 1st
To Carolina:
Miller @ 50%
Brett Pesce
Martin Necas
2023 1st
To Carolina:
Miller @ 50%
Prepare to be roasted. I'd love Pesce in a deal for Miller but Carolina fans are not willing to part with him.
cc
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2002
- 10,222
- 2,104
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
BWJM
Registered User
I'm thinking in that scenario it would be like
To Pit: Miller @50% + Dickinson + Dipietro
To Van: Zucker (1 year cap dump/reclamation project) + '23 1st + 24 2nd + Poulin + Clang/Blomqvist
Not sure what’s the point in predicting trades at this point. If somebody suggested that Calgary or CBJ trade a month ago, everyone would be like that’s insane.
It’s obvious now novody can really predict what the trade market will be like because the returns are completely different than what we are used to.
I think this makes more sense for both sides, as Carolina would be looking for a big d coming back, but its a tight cap world so Canucks fans may not like only getting this back in this deal:
To Vancouver: Pesce, Necas, 2023 1st, 2024 3rd
To Carolina: Miller @50%, Poolman, 2025 5th
Why would caroline do this? They also don't need a C, or anymore forward. They aren't trading pesce. and they don't pay for rentals
Zucker will not waive for Canada
Mal Reynolds
never goes smooth, how come it never goes smooth?
- Sep 28, 2008
- 1,690
- 613
That's a very fair and well thought out proposal (as usual)
I *do* have several suggestions however
Big D don't get much bigger than Tyler Myers, so I suggest swapping him for Poolman (and removing the 5th). The Canucks will need to clear cap to give Necas a new contract, and the Canes will need a RHD.
And last but not least, because the Chaos Giraffe is so much better than Poolman that 3rd on Carolina's side should be upgraded to a guy like Scott Morrow.
Canucks LB
My Favourite, Gone too soon, RIP Luc, We miss you
- Oct 12, 2008
- 80,131
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Shocker
Registered User
- Dec 20, 2019
- 2,141
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Did y'all see this bit of total speculation with a sensationalist title:
theprovince.com
Will Canucks’ Noah Dobson domino finally fall on NHL summer trade front?
Young right-shot blueliner, coveted by Canucks in the buildup to 2018 draft, could be back in play with J.T. Miller on the market.
theprovince.com
StickShift
Puxsonnetey Petey saw his shadow
*shrug* it’s the dog days of summer and there isn’t a lot to write about this team. Journalist has gotta get paid to write something.Did y'all see this bit of total speculation with a sensationalist title:
Will Canucks’ Noah Dobson domino finally fall on NHL summer trade front?
Young right-shot blueliner, coveted by Canucks in the buildup to 2018 draft, could be back in play with J.T. Miller on the market.
He’s probably going to write a sensationalist article for each team that could conceivably be a fit for JT Miller and use the most unrealistic asset. Get ready for “Will Columbus finally solve their Kent Johnson problem?” or “Does Colorado finally play their Bowen Byram card this off-season?” as the next articles.
spockBokk
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2013
- 7,626
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The Canes wouldn’t trade Necas and Pesce for Laine, who had yrs of team control left and you actually think a deal where they add a 1st to that package is feasible for them to take on a rental?
Let’s break this down:
-The Canes wouldn’t trade a 1st last year for a rental, so logic would dictate that that wouldn’t deal a 1st this yr for 1yr of Miller. So even if the deal was a 1st one for one for Miller, the Canes historically will refuse
-To think 1yr of Miller gets you a top 4 RD signed for 2 more years is just delusional thinking, no chance
-The Canes are on record as saying they don’t want to deal Necas. They have all the leverage in his current RFA negotiations and 4 more yrs of team control. Not to mention, Necas is 7yrs younger than Miller. Again, no chance they trade Necas for 1 yr of Miller
So, in conclusion, none of these pieces would be traded on their own for 1yr of Miller, much less all 3. I’d suggest taking this one back to the drawing board, and on a personal note, you might want to start preparing yourself for epic levels of disappointment if you think that package is at all a realistic return.
Last edited:
Peter Griffin
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2003
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You mean the pick swap trade of 13th for 15th+? You don’t actually buy the nonsense that a JT Miller trade fell apart on the draft floor, minutes away from the pick being on the clock because Lou wanted to hammer out a contract with JT on the fly, do you?
Nico Cauzuki
Registered User
Ararana
Registered User
Is that the same moron who fabricated the Byram rumors at the deadline and was forced to admit he speculated the entire thing yet wrote it as creditable rumor?
IslandersFan17
Registered User
Nah of course not, but I’ll certainly take the word of a random poster on HFBoards
Peter Griffin
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2003
- 35,771
- 8,697
It's not my word. I'm just thinking logically and not trying to produce hits.
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