Rumor: ALL PURPOSE JT MILLER THREAD PT2 - It's Been 84 Years....

[RutherPlan]

Vancouver media gets zero information from the Canucks since Rutherford took over so they have to resort making things up in order to pay their bills.

 

[bossram]

Lol. Drance really isn’t as bright as he thinks he is.

It's not a wild statement in the least.

Look at the cap environment of the NHL. Any team that would want Miller isn't going to have the cap space to add him. The Canucks will necessarily have to take money back.

Teams are giving away high-level players like Pacioretty and Bjorkstrand away for free. The amount of competitive teams that can absorb a $5M+ cap hit with no trouble is basically zero.

 

[Love]

It's not a wild statement in the least.

Look at the cap environment of the NHL. Any team that would want Miller isn't going to have the cap space to add him. The Canucks will necessarily have to take money back.

Teams are giving away high-level players like Pacioretty and Bjorkstrand away for free. The amount of competitive teams that can absorb a $5M+ cap hit with no trouble is basically zero.

It’s not wild to acknowledge that the cap situation is crazy this off-season I agree. But it is wild to be so close minded to think that this is the only way a Miller trade can happen. There’s are about a million different scenarios where the team receiving Miller sends the Canucks the equivalent salary back. How is that so hard for him to comprehend? I even posted a trade the other day where the salaries match up perfectly.

Drance is just so negative all the time it gets annoying. I understand being a realist as I am one as well - I was as big of a Benning hater as anyone, I was pro tank and was constantly saying we need a real rebuild. But I can’t help but notice that even as the team clearly improves Drance has nothing to say but negativity.

 

[Canuck86]

Canucks have overplayed their hand here.

Canuck Management has overplayed their hand on July 25th for their leading scorer from last year that has a year left on his reasonable 5.25m contract...

Never change people, long time from now till the deadline...only way your statement is true is if Miller is NOT traded by the TDL and he does walks NEXT July as a free agent and Canucks are left looking like idiots sure

 

[Canuck86]

Look at the cap environment of the NHL. Any team that would want Miller isn't going to have the cap space to add him. The Canucks will necessarily have to take money back.

Teams are giving away high-level players like Pacioretty and Bjorkstrand away for free. The amount of competitive teams that can absorb a $5M+ cap hit with no trouble is basically zero.

Not true at all, if a team wants JT and they offer a good return the Canucks like they could retain 50% of his cap hit... Do I see the Canucks doing this right now no! Would that be a likely option at the 2023 TDL Yes!

Teams also gave away those players because they put Themselves in a bad spot!

 

[bossram]

It’s not wild to acknowledge that the cap situation is crazy this off-season I agree. But it is wild to be so close minded to think that this is the only way a Miller trade can happen. There’s are about a million different scenarios where the team receiving Miller sends the Canucks the equivalent salary back. How is that so hard for him to comprehend? I even posted a trade the other day where the salaries match up perfectly.

Drance is just so negative all the time it gets annoying. I understand being a realist as I am one as well - I was as big of a Benning hater as anyone, I was pro tank and was constantly saying we need a real rebuild. But I can’t help but notice that even as the team clearly improves Drance has nothing to say but negativity.

So your only qualm with Drance's statement is just that it would be a "bad contract". Not that the Canucks wouldn't have to eat some kind of money coming back - whether it's "bad" or not.

So you're splitting hairs here. You're upset with Drancer over degrees of difference. Alright then.

I've never found Drance to be negative. He's a realist. That's much better to have from a beat reporter than Edmonton's MSM water-carrier guys. I remember reading him on CanucksArmy back in the 2010 to 2013 days, he was pretty positive about the group. Curious...might that be because the team was actually good?

Has the team improved? Yes. Drancer has said as much. He is probably higher on the actual playing ability of Mikeyev and Lazar than most are. But similarly, it's completely fair to say that in making those signings (Mikheyev mostly) that the Canucks have evaporated any cap flexibility they had. That's just the truth. Now they've put themselves in a difficult cap situation, in an environment where essentially every other competitive team is also in a difficult cap situation. That limits their options significantly.

 

[My3Sons]

Canuck Management has overplayed their hand on July 25th for their leading scorer from last year that has a year left on his reasonable 5.25m contract...

Never change people, long time from now till the deadline...only way your statement is true is if Miller is NOT traded by the TDL and he does walks NEXT July as a free agent and Canucks are left looking like idiots sure

My guess is that the offers VAN is getting aren’t much different than they will get at the trade deadline. May as well just hold onto him and if nothing materializes they can get the same low first and a decent prospect then.

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

It's not a wild statement in the least.

Look at the cap environment of the NHL. Any team that would want Miller isn't going to have the cap space to add him. The Canucks will necessarily have to take money back.

Teams are giving away high-level players like Pacioretty and Bjorkstrand away for free. The amount of competitive teams that can absorb a $5M+ cap hit with no trouble is basically zero.

Pacioretty is one of your examples? VGK are way beyond Cap Hell at this moment and still need to shed cap, and/or hope they can put a contract on IR to start the season. After Webers LTIR is activated, they have little over 6m in space and only 16 roster spots filed. 3 RFA's to sign which will take more than that 6m, and still need to make up at least 1 more roster spot just to be compliant. Pacioretty was given away for free only because they had no other option. Bjorkstrand was a similar situation after Laine was traded.
Canucks are not in this position of weakness. We have a full roster with and just under cap once Ferland hits LTIR. Sure we need to trade a forward to improve defense, but we don't NEED to do this. Our improved forward group should already make Demko's job easier.

 

[IslandersFan17]

They really screwed the pooch with botching the islanders trade

 

[bossram]

Not true at all, if a team wants JT and they offer a good return the Canucks like they could retain 50% of his cap hit... Do I see the Canucks doing this right now no! Would that be a likely option at the 2023 TDL Yes!

Teams also gave away those players because they put Themselves in a bad spot!

Quick perusal at CapFriendly...over half the teams in the league cannot currently even absorb half of Miller's contract without sending money back. Even more (CAR, CGY, NYR, BOS, NYI, DAL) don't actually have the space it appears because they have key RFAs to re-sign.

The Canucks would have to take salary back. Point blank.

Sure, they always have the option to move him at the deadline. But if they are forced to do so, it will likely be because they're out of the playoff race. In that case, the season will already be looked at as a disaster.

 

[Love]

So your only qualm with Drance's statement is just that it would be a "bad contract". Not that the Canucks wouldn't have to eat some kind of money coming back - whether it's "bad" or not.

So you're splitting hairs here. You're upset with Drancer over degrees of difference. Alright then.

I've never found Drance to be negative. He's a realist. That's much better to have from a beat reporter than Edmonton's MSM water-carrier guys. I remember reading him on CanucksArmy back in the 2010 to 2013 days, he was pretty positive about the group. Curious...might that be because the team was actually good?

Has the team improved? Yes. Drancer has said as much. He is probably higher on the actual playing ability of Mikeyev and Lazar than most are. But similarly, it's completely fair to say that in making those signings (Mikheyev mostly) that the Canucks have evaporated any cap flexibility they had. That's just the truth. Now they've put themselves in a difficult cap situation, in an environment where essentially every other competitive team is also in a difficult cap situation. That limits their options significantly.

There’s a massive difference between the Canucks taking a bad contract and having salaries match in a trade. Not even close to being the same.

It’s a dumb comment from Drance. The Canucks under no circumstances should be taking a bad contract in return for JT. Does Drance think the Canucks need to attach a 1st to Miller in order to get rid of him? Because that’s the same stupid line of thinking.

 

[bossram]

There’s a massive difference between the Canucks taking a bad contract and having salaries match in a trade. Not even close to being the same.

It’s a dumb comment from Drance. The Canucks under no circumstances should be taking a bad contract in return for JT. Does Drance think the Canucks need to attach a 1st to Miller in order to get rid of him? Because that’s the same stupid line of thinking.

If you want to maximize Miller's value, the Canucks are much better off taking "bad money" back and having the additional pieces being high-value futures.

E.g. sure, if Miller went to CBJ for Roslovic + Peeke + 1st, the salaries are pretty close. Roslovic isn't a "bad money" deal. But I don't exactly rate him that highly. He's just a middle-six guy. If the Canucks tried to immediately flip Roslovic, they would not return much (look at how a guy like Dylan Strome was valued...)

I would rather take back Nyquist, or even Voracek - a bad money deal - and get back better future pieces on the return.

 

[Love]

If you want to maximize Miller's value, the Canucks are much better off taking "bad money" back and having the additional pieces being high-value futures.

E.g. sure, if Miller went to CBJ for Roslovic + Peeke + 1st, the salaries are pretty close. Roslovic isn't a "bad money" deal. But I don't exactly rate him that highly. He's just a middle-six guy. If the Canucks tried to immediately flip Roslovic, they would not return much (look at how a guy like Dylan Strome was valued...)

I would rather take back Nyquist, or even Voracek - a bad money deal - and get back better future pieces on the return.

Sure that’s a fine strategy if that’s how they want to play it. But that’s also very different than saying “I don’t know how this gets done unless the Canucks take back a bad contract.” Drance’s statement is so utterly absurd. It’s sensationalized blathering.

 

[Soups On]

Sure that’s a fine strategy if that’s how they want to play it. But that’s also very different than saying “I don’t know how this gets done unless the Canucks take back a bad contract.” Drance’s statement is so utterly absurd. It’s sensationalized blathering.

Agreed.I t's a lot less sensationalist for him to just say the Canucks would have to take some cap back due to the cap availability on contending teams. Cap =/= bad contract and he knows it. As the above poster mentioned, Roslovic isn't a bad contract and with Nyquist expiring this season, his isn't bad at all. Hell, Canucks can use that as a bargaining chip - Miller at $2.6 million is so stupidly valuable for a cup contender.



This Miller saga is so interesting.

 

[Love]

Agreed.I t's a lot less sensationalist for him to just say the Canucks would have to take some cap back due to the cap availability on contending teams. Cap =/= bad contract and he knows it. As the above poster mentioned, Roslovic isn't a bad contract and with Nyquist expiring this season, his isn't bad at all. Hell, Canucks can use that as a bargaining chip - Miller at $2.6 million is so stupidly valuable for a cup contender.



This Miller saga is so interesting.

It is so interesting. Especially since I don’t think an extension is entirely off the table yet… as much as there’s risk for the Canucks to start the season without Miller extended or traded, it’s also risky for Miller to go into the season without a new contract.

 

[Soups On]

It is so interesting. Especially since I don’t think an extension is entirely off the table yet… as much as there’s risk for the Canucks to start the season without Miller extended or traded, it’s also risky for Miller to go into the season without a new contract.

If the team signs Miller to a magical 5 year contract at $8 million and trades Horvat/Boeser and Pearson (Dickinson too please), I wouldn't be mad. If that's a legitimate possibility, which I mostly doubt, it would be one crazy twist to this offseason.

 

[IslandersFan17]

It is so interesting. Especially since I don’t think an extension is entirely off the table yet… as much as there’s risk for the Canucks to start the season without Miller extended or traded, it’s also risky for Miller to go into the season without a new contract.

It’s absolutely risky for the player to gamble on themselves, but if he has another big year and hits UFA the contract offers he likely get will be better than present day

 

[bossram]

Sure that’s a fine strategy if that’s how they want to play it. But that’s also very different than saying “I don’t know how this gets done unless the Canucks take back a bad contract.” Drance’s statement is so utterly absurd. It’s sensationalized blathering.

Again, so you're disagreeing with him just on the degrees of contract the Canucks will have to take back. And calling it "absurd". Alright then man.

Like yes, the Canucks could take back salary on a moderate-decent player. But the overall Miller return package probably won't be that great then. So what's the point? Allvin will have help out for some mid-level assets? When he probably could've got the same or better at the deadline?

I'm not sure why that kind of deal gets done either.

Maybe there's a package where the Canucks take back a Zucker/Nyquist/JVR type "bad contract" and the rest of the return is stronger. That should be preferable to VAN.

 

[bossram]

Agreed.I t's a lot less sensationalist for him to just say the Canucks would have to take some cap back due to the cap availability on contending teams. Cap =/= bad contract and he knows it. As the above poster mentioned, Roslovic isn't a bad contract and with Nyquist expiring this season, his isn't bad at all. Hell, Canucks can use that as a bargaining chip - Miller at $2.6 million is so stupidly valuable for a cup contender.



This Miller saga is so interesting.

Yes, as I said, I don't think Roslosic is a "bad contract". But I don't really rate him highly. I wouldn't call his contract "good". If he's one of the centerpieces of a Miller trade, you've lost. If the Canucks had Roslovic on the roster right now, they'd have trouble flipping him for a 2nd round pick.

Nyquist is absolutely a "bad contract". You couldn't move it without adding assets as payment. Which is why CBJ opted to deal Bjorkstrand - they obviously didn't want to pay to deal Nyquist. If the Canucks take Nyquist back, they should expect a better package overall.

Miller at $2.6 should be valuable, totally. But there still aren't a lot of teams that could even fit that amount in, and salary will still have to come back.

 

[Canuck86]

They really screwed the pooch with botching the islanders trade

What deal is this your talking about, do you know the actual offer? NYI haven't done anything to improve their team this off season as of yet

Quick perusal at CapFriendly...over half the teams in the league cannot currently even absorb half of Miller's contract without sending money back. Even more (CAR, CGY, NYR, BOS, NYI, DAL) don't actually have the space it appears because they have key RFAs to re-sign.

The Canucks would have to take salary back. Point blank.

Sure, they always have the option to move him at the deadline. But if they are forced to do so, it will likely be because they're out of the playoff race. In that case, the season will already be looked at as a disaster.

Of course Canucks would take salary back if it was an expiring deal or someone they could keep with an extension like Severson for example. Also, teams can gain cap space during the year if they use LTIR I believe and 50% of 5.25m at the TDL is not going to be much cap added for the team acquiring JT

 

[Canuck86]

Yes, as I said, I don't think Roslosic is a "bad contract". But I don't really rate him highly. I wouldn't call his contract "good". If he's one of the centerpieces of a Miller trade, you've lost. If the Canucks had Roslovic on the roster right now, they'd have trouble flipping him for a 2nd round pick.

Nyquist is absolutely a "bad contract". You couldn't move it without adding assets as payment. Which is why CBJ opted to deal Bjorkstrand - they obviously didn't want to pay to deal Nyquist. If the Canucks take Nyquist back, they should expect a better package overall.

Miller at $2.6 should be valuable, totally. But there still aren't a lot of teams that could even fit that amount in, and salary will still have to come back.

If the Canucks are getting a return of ELC's of a young player or prospect and additional assets then taking someone like Zucker or Nyquist would make sense and the hope would be the Canucks could then flip that player to another team for a pick before TDL is over, can retain on the player too possibly

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Any chance he gets traded without an extension to Colorado and Colorado just pays a ton for him for one year just to go balls deep for another cup?

 

[IslandersFan17]

What deal is this your talking about, do you know the actual offer? NYI haven't done anything to improve their team this off season as of yet


Of course Canucks would take salary back if it was an expiring deal or someone they could keep with an extension like Severson for example. Also, teams can gain cap space during the year if they use LTIR I believe and 50% of 5.25m at the TDL is not going to be much cap added for the team acquiring JT

The deal that fell through because they wouldn’t let Lou talk to Miller, and seeing as how the Canucks haven’t moved Miller, leads me to believe the Canucks aren’t getting the offers they want either.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

The deal that fell through because they wouldn’t let Lou talk to Miller, and seeing as how the Canucks haven’t moved Miller, leads me to believe the Canucks aren’t getting the offers they want either.

I think it's pretty clear by now that Miller won't bring back the type of value that his stats suggest be should.

 

[Luck 6]

It’s absolutely risky for the player to gamble on themselves, but if he has another big year and hits UFA the contract offers he likely get will be better than present day

You could also make a case that if Miller starts the season hot, and some teams / players come slow out the gate, the trade offers for Miller might increase as well. It could of course go the other way too, but the market for Miller definitely changes as the season progresses.