Pitt adds a lot more to this. This also doesn't help us. NJD for Severson + is our best trade, helps us now and in the future.
Rumor: ALL PURPOSE JT MILLER THREAD PT2 - It's Been 84 Years....
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Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
The only reason we want to trade Miller is not that he is a bad player, it's because his age doesn't fit our competitive window. You realized that Severson is turning 28 next month right? He is 17 months younger than Miller.
Canucks have one of if not the worst prospect pools in the league. We need some young players to retool/rebuild.
He is decently physical and defensively responsible. I ignore his =/- due to the fact that they didn't have any goaltending. What would be a better RHD option available? Trade Miller and sign Klingberg? I'd rather have Severson and extend him.
The Canucks cap situation is pretty bad. They'd have to move out more salary to fit in an extension for a guy like Severson.
And you don't "gain" cap space in LTIR. It just allows a team to exceed the cap by the AAV of the injured player (if they use it correctly). Once the player is healthy, the club has to be back below the cap.
Like I said earlier, if the Canucks are in a position where they're selling at the TDL, the season will have already been a big failure for Allvin/JR.
No. They'll value him like a rental, which is what he is to COL.
The Canucks need to do something about Miller. Yes, they do. They are certainly in a position of weakness. It's re-sign Miller to a big deal, trade him, or he walks next summer.
And yeah, Pacioretty is an example. Bjorkstrand is an example. Teams have no cap space. I'm not saying the Canucks will sell Miller for free. They won't. As I've said repeatedly, the return on Miller will be hampered because other teams can't afford to absorb his salary without sending salary back.
Other clubs have made their moves this offseason and are capped out. Allvin/JR overplayed their hand on Miller and are going to be scrambling now.
100%. Any team that needs scoring punch can add it dirt cheap from a capped out team. This is partly why the market for Miller is going to be so thin.
Would the players available be as good as Miller? Well, no. But in getting a Bjorkstrand, are you getting 70-80% of Miller for basically free? Pretty much. It's a better deal for a club looking to add. Combine that with the much lower contract investment, retention of other assets, and it's obvious.
Why would CAR ever have been interested in JT when they could get paid to take Pacioretty?
The reason why we trade Miller is because we need to improve our top 4 and can lose a forward. I would trade Garland(Though I don't really want to) before Miller, but we can get more for Miller to help the team now and in the future.
Teams will have a ton of cap space at the deadline, and Canucks will have a retention slot. The only other high profile forward we know will be available is Kane, and Miller realistically has more overall value due to no NTV and Kane having a full NMC.
I doubt Kane waives for any team he doesn't see as a contender, and Chicago/the other team will probably need a 3rd team involved to help eat cap hit to make that trade work. Canucks don't need to do that. the Fiala trade is the bare minimum of a Miller trade IMO.
Management has now come out and said under no scenario will they let JT Miller walk away for nothing.
I'm now comfortable waiting until the TDL to move Miller. Lets just hope that the greedy owner doesnt veto any trade because the Canucks are in a playoff spot. I also dont know what that would do to the room if the team trades Miller mid season while in a playoff spot.
Regardless, thats the spot were in to try and get the best value for Miller.
Copp- for 1st, 2nd, 5th, Barron
Foligno- 1st and 4th
If those guys returned that at the deadline, Miller is going to get great return, especially if the Canucks retain him down to 2.5 mil pro rated by the deadline.
I'm now comfortable waiting until the TDL to move Miller. Lets just hope that the greedy owner doesnt veto any trade because the Canucks are in a playoff spot. I also dont know what that would do to the room if the team trades Miller mid season while in a playoff spot.
Regardless, thats the spot were in to try and get the best value for Miller.
Copp- for 1st, 2nd, 5th, Barron
Foligno- 1st and 4th
If those guys returned that at the deadline, Miller is going to get great return, especially if the Canucks retain him down to 2.5 mil pro rated by the deadline.
seems odd that they would deny a team to talk to JT, also the draft was before free agency which from what I understand you couldn't even sign JT to an extension at the draft.
Secondly, there is no rush to move JT. It is a risk to keep him going into the season...that will give vancouver media non stop JT questions.
If Canucks keep JT and he is healthy at the TDL they will still receive a decent offer for JT and at that time they would likely entertain retaining 50% on JT to increase the return
Garland has next to no trade value right now. Vancouver is not getting a top-four defenseman in return for him.
Sure, the TDL is the Canucks' last resort and they will be able to move Miller then. But there is a lot of risk involved with going that route: 1), that if the Canucks are close to a playoff spot, Aqua will bar moving Miller under any circumstances, and 2) Miller gets injured or has a down season.
The ship has sailed on moving Miller this summer, JR/Allvin overplayed their hands. The teams that would have been willing to offer a Fiala-esque return for an extended Miller have made their moves and are capped out now.
Always enjoy reading this topic, I know where other teams fans are coming from but when some statements are made about Canucks cap space etc it makes me laugh. Canucks aren't in cap hell like some on here seem to think, they have over 3m in deap money due to VirtanenHoltby/Halak so that comes off the books for next year. It is likely the Canucks trade at least 1 forward making over 2m ie: Dickinson/Pearson/Garland but it will depend on how Hoglander, Podkolzin, Kuzmenko play and if they are extended.
No rush to move JT, lots of time before the season starts and probably other teams are taking a break during the summer and probably pick things up in August sometime to look at who is left in FA or who is available in trade.
My question is what is going on with Kadri? Did he sign with the NYI and they just aren't disclosing it...or has Kadri asked for too much $ and term for 1ppg season and a cup ring but is also turning 32 in Oct. A team would be stupid to offer him more than 5 years at a high cap hit in my opinion. Kadri is a 2nd line player who will trend down to a #3c later in his contract most likely or get dealt to a crappy team like Arizona
No rush to move JT, lots of time before the season starts and probably other teams are taking a break during the summer and probably pick things up in August sometime to look at who is left in FA or who is available in trade.
My question is what is going on with Kadri? Did he sign with the NYI and they just aren't disclosing it...or has Kadri asked for too much $ and term for 1ppg season and a cup ring but is also turning 32 in Oct. A team would be stupid to offer him more than 5 years at a high cap hit in my opinion. Kadri is a 2nd line player who will trend down to a #3c later in his contract most likely or get dealt to a crappy team like Arizona
Say what? A top 6 winger who was near the top of the team in scoring 5 on 5. Garland doesn't get much PP time, but to say Garland has no value is just silly.
Does he return a top 4 RHD, most likely not but depends on the team acquiring him. Do they have excess RHD and someone a bit older who they may not want to commit to? Or Canucks add to Garland in a potential deal. I think the team will see how these other F's do before moving Galand.
Kuzmenko 1yr deal see how he adjusts to the NHL, he may be traded at TDL or already be resigned
Podkolzin- hopefully more opportunity for him this year to progress
Hoglander- See how he coms back after surgery, coach BB seemed to reduce his ice time as season went on
Pearson is a serviceable player, not overpaid and could stay a Canuck or might get dealt for a pick or prospect. He has a Cup ring and is versatile and can play up and down the line up. Would be an easy player to move in the last year of his deal
One of the top 5v5 producers, who produced at a 2nd line level with no PP1 time, and is quite good defensively has no value? the only thing that hurts his value is that the teams with Cap Space shouldn't spend assets to get him, and the teams that want him don't have the cap space. 49 points at 5v5 puts him as one of the top forwards at 5v5 in the league.
Total Points he was the 21st best RW in the league. Ranks a lot higher if you only count 5v5. To think that he doesn't have value as a 1st line producer is pure ignorance.
With 32 teams in the league, there are 192 top 6 spots. he was 104th in total scoring for forwards. Which ranks him as a high end 2nd line player. and that gets better, yet again, if you take away the Power Play points. The fact that he doesn't get a sniff at PP1 and our PP2 barely see's play makes no sense.
JR and Allvin did overplay their hand with Miller, but we can still resign him. He still has a ton of value at TDL when teams have extra cap space. If NJD don't get Kadri, I would also wager that he is #1 on their list as well. Thy seem to want to take the next step, and surrounding Hischier/Hughes with the best forward available will be the best play for them. Worry about resigning later.
his 5v5 numbers are at a first line level. 49 5v5 points is pretty elite. Few players have more. he is 51 league wide scoring at 5v5. THAT is elite scoring. If he had PP1 time and added about 10-20 pts he would have 1st line numbers.
Go look at what mid-level wingers are being traded for right now, even high-level wingers like Bjorkstrand and Pacioretty...and tell me what Garland's value is. It isn't much.
Teams have no cap space. They aren't going to value a mid-range scoring winger on a $5M AAV that highly. Especially when you could sign a roughly equivalent player from the UFA scrap heap for far cheaper.
You don't need to tell me how good Garland is. I like him, personally. And he is a very efficient 5v5 scorer. But he doesn't really have any trade value. No one can absorb his cap hit, so unless you're giving him away for free, teams aren't going to be willing to trade for him.
And Miller isn't moving this summer. The Canucks overplayed their hand. Teams have made their moves and are capped out. NJ is in the same boat. He's not going there. Talk to NJ fans, they don't even want him.
You are beyond clueless. You keep bringing up two players that were traded by teams trading from a position of weakness. Canucks are trading from a position of strength. Once Ferland is on LTIR we are under the cap. CBJ got assets for Bjorkstrand despite a position of weakness, and his cap hit is higher than Garland.
IslandersFan17
Registered User
Yeah, no, absolutely you>Elliot Friedman I get it.
Canucks are under the cap now, even before Ferland goes LTIR, Poolman will probably go into LTIR too,
Only reason the Canucks would move anyone for a bargain is they have an immediate plan to use that cap space.
for instance, Garland for a 2nd round pick
then
Klingberg signed 6mil for 5 years.
Otherwise, they are under the cap and dont need to move Garland or anyone for a discount, they can make trades in season or at the trade deadline.
Only reason the Canucks would move anyone for a bargain is they have an immediate plan to use that cap space.
for instance, Garland for a 2nd round pick
then
Klingberg signed 6mil for 5 years.
Otherwise, they are under the cap and dont need to move Garland or anyone for a discount, they can make trades in season or at the trade deadline.
It's not about the Canucks. You actually need to think about the league as a whole.
What competitive teams can absorb a $5M cap hit right now? Basically none. The first cap casualties for teams in cap trouble are almost always mid-level wingers. So why would those same teams dump a guy to clear cap space for a similar player?
Why are teams going to value Garland highly when you can still find mid-range scoring wingers for dirt cheap in the UFA market?
It's pretty clear the trade value of mid-level scoring wingers has evaporated.
You're calling me clueless, yet you can't actually consider any other factors outside the Canucks. You might want to be a little less condescending and actually think. I've never said the Canucks have to trade Garland. You're the one bringing him up as a trade candidate. I'm just correctly identifying that Garland has little trade value, which you don't seem to understand.
We are 2.7m over until Ferland is on LTIR with a full 23 man roster ATM.
Do you want me to start listing JUST competitive teams, or the teams looking to take the next step?
You might want to look at their cap sheets. Over half the league has less than $5M in cap space. They can't absorb Garland without moving money.
Going beyond those clubs, teams like NJD, CGY, NYI, and DAL have key RFAs to re-sign, which would eat up most of their available space.
What's your trade market? WPG and DET basically?
Once again, you haven't considered the actual cap environment of the league. No club is valuing a mid-level scoring winger on a $5M AAV highly when they don't have any cap space. Especially when you can just sign a scoring winger for cheap in UFA.
If our main target is a top 4 RHD, removing that cap is taken into consideration with the trade. Only reason I will leave NJD out is because they already have 2 shrimps in Hughes and Bratt. Buffalo likely doesn't want another season as a bottom feeder, Sens, Wings, Jets, Islanders(until they announce Kadri), Flames(though we wouldn't trade him in the division) Preds if we can do a deal around Fabbro, Bruins if the rumor that Carlo could be had is true, Canes after they activate Gardners LTIR,
None of these teams even have a top-four RHD they can trade - they're not moving a RHD for a mid-range winger when RHD is a bigger need for them. NYI could maybe move Mayfield but they are completely capped out and would still need to clear more salary. CAR is not moving Pesce or Burns. NAS is not moving Fabbro, he's their top-pair RD and he's 24.
You still haven't thought of any transactions from the other club's view.
NAS just got McDonagh and have Carrier, Fabbro can be available if they want to improve forward depth. Car has over 8m in space and Necas is likely bridged, they can afford to send prospects for him. NYI I only mentioned because they do have space until Kadri is signed.
Garland is at the upper tier of top 6 forwards, Mid-Range is a term generally used for players better suited for the 3rd line, but can play 2nd line. Garland is much better than that.
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