Golf: All Purpose Golf Thread VI | 2017 PGA Tour Season: Here comes Cantlay!

[MrFunnyWobbl]

****... DA Points got to -19.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Going to watch the final. Was going to do my essay today but slept like hell and can't think...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think Rahm could cement himself in the Spieth/Rory tier and/or achieve OWGR #1 this year. His potential is limitless.

Its possible, but I disagree. I wanted to bring this up now because Golf Channel is slobbering over him making the final, saying he's more talented than any current player because he has "no weaknesses." Statistically, around the greens he's pretty bad and he's only about average on the greens. His driving accuracy isn't the best, despite hitting it a long way. I like Rahm, but lets just put things into perspective.

At the same age, these were the stats of Rory and Jordan.

Rory: 1 major, 4 total pro wins, five top 10's in majors
Jordan: 2 majors, 8 total pro wins, Fed Ex Cup Champion, five top 10's in majors.
Rahm:1 pro win, 0 majors, 0 top tens in majors.

So I think people need to put things in perspective. Rahm is good, but this slobber-fest over Rahm is out of control. And yeah, the other two got a head start to their pro career, but they got a head start because they were good enough to be winning majors at a younger age. Lets see Rahm win a major before he joins the big four who are all proven major winners, world #1's, and three of the four have won 5 times with a major in a season, Rahm has one career pro win. Its kind of annoying that every single player who wins one event, plays well for a stretch is all of a sudden part of the big (insert number, we gotta be at 20 by now ). Then they turn into Rickie Fowler, and people realize how dumb it was. And I'm not saying Rahm will be Rickie Fowler, but they gotta let the guy accomplish something first. Arron Oberholser started this slobbering two weeks ago.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Its possible, but I disagree. I wanted to bring this up now because Golf Channel is slobbering over him making the final, saying he's more talented than any current player because he has "no weaknesses." Statistically, around the greens he's pretty bad and he's only about average on the greens. His driving accuracy isn't the best, despite hitting it a long way. I like Rahm, but lets just put things into perspective.

At the same age, these were the stats of Rory and Jordan.

Rory: 1 major, 4 total pro wins, five top 10's in majors
Jordan: 2 majors, 8 total pro wins, Fed Ex Cup Champion, five top 10's in majors.
Rahm:1 pro win, 0 majors, 0 top tens in majors.

So I think people need to put things in perspective. Rahm is good, but this slobber-fest over Rahm is out of control. And yeah, the other two got a head start to their pro career, but they got a head start because they were good enough to be winning majors at a younger age. Lets see Rahm win a major before he joins the big four who are all proven major winners, world #1's, and three of the four have won 5 times with a major in a season, Rahm has one career pro win. Its kind of annoying that every single player who wins one event, plays well for a stretch is all of a sudden part of the big (insert number, we gotta be at 20 by now ). Then they turn into Rickie Fowler, and people realize how dumb it was. And I'm not saying Rahm will be Rickie Fowler, but they gotta let the guy accomplish something first. Arron Oberholser started this slobbering two weeks ago.

That's fair, but I think what he is doing on his first season on tour is impressive and shows that he has a lot of potential to join elite category.

As far as the bolded, I hate how people talk about talent. Talent doesn't change based on how many wins a player does/doesn't have. Talent doesn't suddenly change if a player starts winning. If someone obscure player like Shawn Stefani went on a tear and won the next 12 majors straight, it doesn't mean he suddenly got talented, he would always have been that talented and just have put it together.

Talent doesn't change. If Jordan had no Top 20s for the rest of his career, he would still be as talented.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'd put Rahm potential somewhere between McIlroy/Spieth level and Day/Johnson level in terms of what I think his eventual career accomplishments can be. Maybe around Mickelson level. He has a big disadvantage, he's a few years behind these guys at the same age.

But I kind of think talent in golf is misunderstood. People have been talking about for years how DJ was so talented, but I'm not sure I agree. Now he's incredibly talented and has done an excellent job of adding things to his game, but talent isn't just who hits it the farthest. It involves touch, the mental side of the game, clutchness, accuracy. For years, DJ was a huge butcher within 150 yards of a green, and he was very inconsistent on them, along with having some of the worst course management I've seen, his course management lost him a number of majors early in his career. And he was not clutch at all. These things should be included in talent. McIlroy probably isn't even as consistent of a ball striker as DJ and DJ hits the ball longer than him, but Rory has been so much more clutch in his career, has much better course management, is better around the greens. This all adds up. Its why Rory will be the better golfer over the course of his career, despite having similar strengths and weaknesses, and not even being as consistent TTG as DJ or hitting the ball as far.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

I'd put Rahm potential somewhere between McIlroy/Spieth level and Day/Johnson level in terms of what I think his eventual career accomplishments can be. Maybe around Mickelson level. He has a big disadvantage, he's a few years behind these guys at the same age.

But I kind of think talent in golf is misunderstood. People have been talking about for years how DJ was so talented, but I'm not sure I agree. Now he's incredibly talented and has done an excellent job of adding things to his game, but talent isn't just who hits it the farthest. It involves touch, the mental side of the game, clutchness, accuracy. For years, DJ was a huge butcher within 150 yards of a green, and he was very inconsistent on them, along with having some of the worst course management I've seen, his course management lost him a number of majors early in his career. And he was not clutch at all. These things should be included in talent. McIlroy probably isn't even as consistent of a ball striker as DJ and DJ hits the ball longer than him, but Rory has been so much more clutch in his career, has much better course management, is better around the greens. This all adds up. Its why Rory will be the better golfer over the course of his career, despite having similar strengths and weaknesses, and not even being as consistent TTG as DJ or hitting the ball as far.

I wouldn't include mental aspect as talent.

Rahm in trouble early.

2 down thru 4.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Rahm yikes dude.

Can't make a short putt

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

HIO for Tanihara

 

[Dr John Carlson]

Not the strongest golf on display today.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Not the strongest golf on display today.

Very poor from Rahm. Granted I stopped watching when he was 5 down after 8. Got two back looks like.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

And now Rahm is clutching up.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

Then he blows it on 18. DJ has won 3 in a row.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Then he blows it on 18. DJ has won 3 in a row.

Brutal chip. Should've got down in 2.

DJ absolutely on fire.

 

[Hire Sather]

DJ is so likeable, love to see him on top of his game.

Golf needs someone to win multiple majors this year.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

DJ is so likeable, love to see him on top of his game.

Golf needs someone to win multiple majors this year.

Really? I don't think he is that likeable. Rory, Jordan and Day are all much more likeable.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't find DJ likable or unlikable. He just seems dull. From what I read, he's a really nice guy. Just doesn't show any personality. The only unlikable players are Bubba and I can see why someone might dislike Patrick Reed, although I don't mind him that much. There are reasons to dislike Tiger and Phil, but if someone dislikes any of the other big names, I think they just have something personal against them. There really isn't much those others have done to be unlikable.

DJ now has all the pressure on him. Three in a row, he'll be considered the big favorite at Augusta by many, and if he wins next week, he'll go into Augusta with more attention on his win streak than him possibly winning the tournament. He played 7 competitive rounds this week, and Augusta will be his 3rd tournament in a row. Thats a lot of golf in three weeks, especially with majors taking about two times as much out of players as regular events.

He's going into the Masters as the absolute target. This should bode really well for Rory, Jordan, Phil. Pressure is off them, its all on DJ.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

I don't find DJ likable or unlikable. He just seems dull. From what I read, he's a really nice guy. Just doesn't show any personality. The only unlikable players are Bubba and I can see why someone might dislike Patrick Reed, although I don't mind him that much. There are reasons to dislike Tiger and Phil, but if someone dislikes any of the other big names, I think they just have something personal against them. There really isn't much those others have done to be unlikable.

DJ now has all the pressure on him. Three in a row, he'll be considered the big favorite at Augusta by many, and if he wins next week, he'll go into Augusta with more attention on his win streak than him possibly winning the tournament. He played 7 competitive rounds this week, and Augusta will be his 3rd tournament in a row. Thats a lot of golf in three weeks, especially with majors taking about two times as much out of players as regular events.

He's going into the Masters as the absolute target. This should bode really well for Rory, Jordan, Phil. Pressure is off them, its all on DJ.

His dullness and lack of personality is what is unlikeable imo. Jordan, Jason and Rory all show some personality or family life that is endearing and relatable. I've cut Bubba some slack after seeing his 60 minutes showing his mental obstacles.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Jordan Spieth is the epitome of a dull athlete with very little personality to me. Kind of like a hockey player in that regard, actually. I dislike him because of the pace he plays at and his hissy fits when things don't go his way, not because of anything personal. The "we" thing comes off as artificial and forced too, in my opinion. The one thing I respect about him though is the relationship he has with his sister.

As for being a "target" or having "pressure" going into Augusta, it will be on Spieth as much as it is on anyone else. The ultimate choke job at 12 last year and the 3 straight years of high finishes there will be a focus. A lot of people will be expecting him or waiting to see if he's exorcised his demons after that hilarious choke that's all seared into our memories though.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I don't find any of the top players particularly likable except for Rory. Day's constant illnesses are off-putting even if they are genuine, and his staredown of Jimmy Walker at last year's PGA was kind of lame. DJ has the personality of a brick. Matsuyama's club dropping shenanigans are annoying. Stenson is cool enough, I guess, but he needs to do better at the majors.

Spieth seems like a legitimately nice guy but something about him just sort of rubs me the wrong way. I definitely agree that the "we" thing is forced. Then again, I am a fan of Patrick Reed, whose history on and off the course can allegedly be described as... unscrupulous. Maybe I am not the person to judge.

Also, Bryson didn't win.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Jordan Spieth is the epitome of a dull athlete with very little personality to me. Kind of like a hockey player in that regard, actually. I dislike him because of the pace he plays at and his hissy fits when things don't go his way, not because of anything personal. The "we" thing comes off as artificial and forced too, in my opinion. The one thing I respect about him though is the relationship he has with his sister.

As for being a "target" or having "pressure" going into Augusta, it will be on Spieth as much as it is on anyone else. The ultimate choke job at 12 last year and the 3 straight years of high finishes there will be a focus. A lot of people will be expecting him or waiting to see if he's exorcised his demons after that hilarious choke that's all seared into our memories though.

Or maybe you are just a hater.

Seriously, you are reaching because you perceive him to be competition for Rory. I always hated when other TW fans did this to Rory when he started being good at the end of Tiger's time being good. You are better than being petty.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Jordan Spieth is the epitome of a dull athlete with very little personality to me. Kind of like a hockey player in that regard, actually. I dislike him because of the pace he plays at and his hissy fits when things don't go his way, not because of anything personal. The "we" thing comes off as artificial and forced too, in my opinion. The one thing I respect about him though is the relationship he has with his sister.

As for being a "target" or having "pressure" going into Augusta, it will be on Spieth as much as it is on anyone else. The ultimate choke job at 12 last year and the 3 straight years of high finishes there will be a focus. A lot of people will be expecting him or waiting to see if he's exorcised his demons after that hilarious choke that's all seared into our memories though.

You act like Jordan is the only one who has ever choked a major away. Rory choked away the Masters in 2011. Does that mean he needs to "exorcise his demons" ? In fact I would say a lot of Players, especially multiple major champions, with the exception of Tiger, have either choked away a major or atleast failed to close one out on Sunday at some point in their career. For most players its going to happen at some point in their career and to attack Jordan for what happened at 12 last year is ridiculous.

Also I would hardly say Jordan doesn't have personality. I'm not sure what you follow, but all the interviews and professional stuff I've seen have shown personality. Plus he clearly has shown off his personality as a regular early twentys kid with Bakers Bay and what not.

I think you have it out for him for some unknown reason and thus scrutinize him with a much different standard than anyone else.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You act like Jordan is the only one who has ever choked a major away. Rory choked away the Masters in 2011. Does that mean he needs to "exorcise his demons" ? In fact I would say a lot of Players, especially multiple major champions, with the exception of Tiger, have either choked away a major or atleast failed to close one out on Sunday at some point in their career. For most players its going to happen at some point in their career and to attack Jordan for what happened at 12 last year is ridiculous.

Also I would hardly say Jordan doesn't have personality. I'm not sure what you follow, but all the interviews and professional stuff I've seen have shown personality. Plus he clearly has shown off his personality as a regular early twentys kid with Bakers Bay and what not.

I think you have it out for him for some unknown reason and thus scrutinize him with a much different standard than anyone else.

Tiger even choked away a major. 2009 PGA.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Tiger even choked away a major. 2009 PGA.

Yes I know, but what other ones. Lots of players have choked away multiple. Tiger choked away one and won 14. That's an insane record.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Day might play in the Masters. Hopefully he's able to.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Or maybe you are just a hater.

Seriously, you are reaching because you perceive him to be competition for Rory. I always hated when other TW fans did this to Rory when he started being good at the end of Tiger's time being good. You are better than being petty.

If you want to think that, that's fine. I don't feel the need to defend myself because of it.

I'm not sure why it automatically has to be assumed that dislike for a player boils down to being a "hater" or perceiving him as competition for Rors. If I were to entertain that notion, as well as apply your logic, there'd be a long list of golfers (DJ, Day, Matsuyama) I enjoy watching that the same assumption should apply to. As previous iterations of these golf threads bear evidence of, there are a number of golfers I don't care for due to any number of reasons. In an individual sport, this is not entirely unusual and I explained a few short posts ago why Spieth rubs me the wrong way.

You act like Jordan is the only one who has ever choked a major away. Rory choked away the Masters in 2011. Does that mean he needs to "exorcise his demons" ? In fact I would say a lot of Players, especially multiple major champions, with the exception of Tiger, have either choked away a major or atleast failed to close one out on Sunday at some point in their career. For most players its going to happen at some point in their career and to attack Jordan for what happened at 12 last year is ridiculous.

What exactly gave you that indication? You act as if all collapses are equal. The problem when you put words in others' mouths or assume things is you often look silly. But since we're on this topic, I'm the first one who'd admit that until Rory wins a Green Jacket, his collapse in 2011 hasn't fully been exorcised and is a mental roadblock to him winning at Augusta.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Spieth's collapse at Augusta last year was near the top of the list for biggest chokes in major history and you want to try to normalize or downplay the historical signifigance of it. Norman blowing a 6 shot lead to Faldo at Augusta in 1996; Van De Velde imploding with a 3 shot lead on the 18th at Carnoustie; Palmer handing it on a silver platter to Casper in '66 at Olympic; Scott bogeying the final 4 at Lytham in 2012; Mickelson at Winged Foot in 2006; Rors at Augusta in 2011; DJ at Pebble in 2010 -- you know what all of those have in common? They are the worst collapses in major history. There is a difference betwen Tiger losing (a 2 shot lead) to YE Yang and the referenced instances above. Spieth had a 5 shot lead with 9 holes to play before choking which speaks for itself and is pretty comparable to Norman's collapse in 1996.

And I just knew you would reference Spieth running around half naked at Bakers Bay as evidence of him having a personality. Never change, Wobbl...