Golf: All Purpose Golf Thread VI | 2017 PGA Tour Season: Here comes Cantlay!

[Preds Partisan]

DJ withdraws from Shell Houston Open. Good, give somebody else a chance to win!

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

If you want to think that, that's fine. I don't feel the need to defend myself because of it.

I'm not sure why it automatically has to be assumed that dislike for a player boils down to being a "hater" or perceiving him as competition for Rors. If I were to entertain that notion, as well as apply your logic, there'd be a long list of golfers (DJ, Day, Matsuyama) I enjoy watching that the same assumption should apply to. As previous iterations of these golf threads bear evidence of, there are a number of golfers I don't care for due to any number of reasons. In an individual sport, this is not entirely unusual and I explained a few short posts ago why Spieth rubs me the wrong way.



What exactly gave you that indication? You act as if all collapses are equal. The problem when you put words in others' mouths or assume things is you often look silly. But since we're on this topic, I'm the first one who'd admit that until Rory wins a Green Jacket, his collapse in 2011 hasn't fully been exorcised and is a mental roadblock to him winning at Augusta.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Spieth's collapse at Augusta last year was near the top of the list for biggest chokes in major history and you want to try to normalize or downplay the historical signifigance of it. Norman blowing a 6 shot lead to Faldo at Augusta in 1996; Van De Velde imploding with a 3 shot lead on the 18th at Carnoustie; Palmer handing it on a silver platter to Casper in '66 at Olympic; Scott bogeying the final 4 at Lytham in 2012; Mickelson at Winged Foot in 2006; Rors at Augusta in 2011; DJ at Pebble in 2010 -- you know what all of those have in common? They are the worst collapses in major history. There is a difference betwen Tiger losing (a 2 shot lead) to YE Yang and the referenced instances above. Spieth had a 5 shot lead with 9 holes to play before choking which speaks for itself and is pretty comparable to Norman's collapse in 1996.

And I just knew you would reference Spieth running around half naked at Bakers Bay as evidence of him having a personality. Never change, Wobbl...

I got that indication from the fact that you make such a mockery constantly of Spieth losing last year when Rory had a similar collapse at Augusta. I agree with you on all the listed collapse and would agree that they are rather similar. I honestly think if you are ranking Spieth's collapse above any of the others it can't be no more than personal opinion. I think any given person can rank those collapses in any way they want. I'm honestly not sure how Tiger at 2009 got brought into this. I don't think that was anything close to a collapse on the other levels and I don't know where anyone in this thread would have arrived at me making this assumption or anyone else.

I'm finished with this debate on personality as it's getting a bit ridiculous arguing about a subjective thing like personality when no athlete in history (that I'm aware of) has ever really been significantly ranked on personality over legitimate achievements. Its not worth debating anymore.

And I think DJ pulling out of Houston Open is smart. Why play that when you can prep for Augusta?

 

[Preds Partisan]

Also, Houston loses Shell as a sponsor after this week, they're 26th year and third longest sponsor on tour.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Also, Houston loses Shell as a sponsor after this week, they're 26th year and third longest sponsor on tour.

Oh Shell no

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Pavel was the one that brought up Tiger in 2009. My insinuation, perhaps poorly made, was that losing a major having while having a Sunday lead shouldn't automatically be classified as a choke. YE Yang deserves credit for how well he played during that round, especially on the back nine. Tiger didn't have his best stuff that day but nothing was handed to Yang and he didn't benefit from any egregious mistakes on Tiger's behalf.

When it comes to personality, you're correct, it is irrelevant when assessing an athlete's body of work and achievements. But let's be honest; golf is, and has always been, a niche sport and there is a symbiotic relationship between talent, personalities in the game and the state of the golf industry. We've seen the impact Palmer and Nicklaus, Seve and Trevino, Phil and Tiger have all had. The current crop on tour, while incredibly talented, for whatever reason doesn't seem to be growing the game or attracting many eyeballs to it as evidenced by the lackluster ratings the past couple years. Personally speaking, unless Rory is in the mix, even favorites like Day and DJ make it hard for me to feel invested or inclined to watch more than an hour or two on the weekend. I don't have 5 hours to spend watching when other more intriguing entertainment options are vying for my attention. Why do you think so many are still holding out hope for a Tiger renaissance? Love him or despise him, they're chasing that great white whale in a futile endeavor hoping that it will improve the dismal future outlook of the industry and reverse the decline of the game in its biggest market. Obviously the sport on TV is only a piece of the puzzle there and they need to make it more affordable and accessible (pace of play, course length/difficulty) to play as well which is an issue they don't seem interested in solving.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

In something I never thought I'd say, I'm actually becoming somewhat of a Phil fan now as well. Something clicked after that duel with Stenson at Troon for me. Even though I desperately wanted to see him lose, couldn't help but appreciate the golf he played that week.

Even though he's not a consistent factor anymore, he's still competitive and always plays exciting golf while having the ability to do things on a golf course nobody else in the world can do. I'm hoping he can factor in at Augusta this year because the tournament is just so much better with him having a chance on Sunday.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Pavel was the one that brought up Tiger in 2009. My insinuation, perhaps poorly made, was that losing a major having while having a Sunday lead shouldn't automatically be classified as a choke. YE Yang deserves credit for how well he played during that round, especially on the back nine. Tiger didn't have his best stuff that day but nothing was handed to Yang and he didn't benefit from any egregious mistakes on Tiger's behalf.

When it comes to personality, you're correct, it is irrelevant when assessing an athlete's body of work and achievements. But let's be honest; golf is, and has always been, a niche sport and there is a symbiotic relationship between talent, personalities in the game and the state of the golf industry. We've seen the impact Palmer and Nicklaus, Seve and Trevino, Phil and Tiger have all had. The current crop on tour, while incredibly talented, for whatever reason doesn't seem to be growing the game or attracting many eyeballs to it as evidenced by the lackluster ratings the past couple years. Personally speaking, unless Rory is in the mix, even favorites like Day and DJ make it hard for me to feel invested or inclined to watch more than an hour or two on the weekend. I don't have 5 hours to spend watching when other more intriguing entertainment options are vying for my attention. Why do you think so many are still holding out hope for a Tiger renaissance? Love him or despise him, they're chasing that great white whale in a futile endeavor hoping that it will improve the dismal future outlook of the industry and reverse the decline of the game in its biggest market. Obviously the sport on TV is only a piece of the puzzle there and they need to make it more affordable and accessible (pace of play, course length/difficulty) to play as well which is an issue they don't seem interested in solving.

In something I never thought I'd say, I'm actually becoming somewhat of a Phil fan now as well. Something clicked after that duel with Stenson at Troon for me. Even though I desperately wanted to see him lose, couldn't help but appreciate the golf he played that week.

Even though he's not a consistent factor anymore, he's still competitive and always plays exciting golf while having the ability to do things on a golf course nobody else in the world can do. I'm hoping he can factor in at Augusta this year because the tournament is just so much better with him having a chance on Sunday.

I feel like it's normal for people to want to watch the athlete they like or not watch at all. I know people who have done it for a variety of athletes.... Tiger, Peyton, Lebron, Phelps, Bolt etc etc I don't think that's going to change. Some people will always only be interesting in watching certain players. If you only want to watch Rory, I don't see an issue with that.

Also I don't think it is the responsibility of players to try and make efforts to grow the game beyond what they do to grow it just by playing and winning. Rory has said himself it isn't something he is worried about. I think it would be unjustified for one to say (I'm not saying you implied this in your post, but in general) that Jordan/Rory/Day etc should be dedicating time off the course to go above and beyond to grow the game. It sucks that the game is shrinking and the industry is getting smaller but that's the way it is. It doesn't have to always grow even if that would be nice. Plus it isn't like its just falling off a cliff.

Yeah I've liked seeing Phil do well this year and recently even though I used to not be a fan of his.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If you want to think that, that's fine. I don't feel the need to defend myself because of it.

I'm not sure why it automatically has to be assumed that dislike for a player boils down to being a "hater" or perceiving him as competition for Rors. If I were to entertain that notion, as well as apply your logic, there'd be a long list of golfers (DJ, Day, Matsuyama) I enjoy watching that the same assumption should apply to. As previous iterations of these golf threads bear evidence of, there are a number of golfers I don't care for due to any number of reasons. In an individual sport, this is not entirely unusual and I explained a few short posts ago why Spieth rubs me the wrong way.

Regardless, it just seems petty.

I have some complaints about most athletes, but I don't dislike them, and then launch attacks on them, like your original post was. I thought Rory made a very irresponsible comment about the Olympics, and I think his public treatment of Caroline Wozniacki is rude, but it doesn't mean I actively root against the guy because of it.

I mean, come on, your complaints are small ball. People could easily fire back at you that you supported a man who cheated on his pregnant wife with prostitutes.

Why is there a need to dislike any of these golfers for nothing important? I can understand being mad about serious indiscretions or cheating incidents on the course, but I think your complaints don't match up with your opinion. Golf isn't such a contentious sport. Lets not make it one. Just my take.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

DJ at Pebble in 2010 --

You forgot about 20 DJ bad collapses.

Thomas Bjorn at St George's had a really underrated choke.

Everyone will always mention last year's Masters, but I think the 2015 Open was the tougher loss because of what that win would've meant historically.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Pavel was the one that brought up Tiger in 2009. My insinuation, perhaps poorly made, was that losing a major having while having a Sunday lead shouldn't automatically be classified as a choke. YE Yang deserves credit for how well he played during that round, especially on the back nine. Tiger didn't have his best stuff that day but nothing was handed to Yang and he didn't benefit from any egregious mistakes on Tiger's behalf.

When it comes to personality, you're correct, it is irrelevant when assessing an athlete's body of work and achievements. But let's be honest; golf is, and has always been, a niche sport and there is a symbiotic relationship between talent, personalities in the game and the state of the golf industry. We've seen the impact Palmer and Nicklaus, Seve and Trevino, Phil and Tiger have all had. The current crop on tour, while incredibly talented, for whatever reason doesn't seem to be growing the game or attracting many eyeballs to it as evidenced by the lackluster ratings the past couple years. Personally speaking, unless Rory is in the mix, even favorites like Day and DJ make it hard for me to feel invested or inclined to watch more than an hour or two on the weekend. I don't have 5 hours to spend watching when other more intriguing entertainment options are vying for my attention. Why do you think so many are still holding out hope for a Tiger renaissance? Love him or despise him, they're chasing that great white whale in a futile endeavor hoping that it will improve the dismal future outlook of the industry and reverse the decline of the game in its biggest market. Obviously the sport on TV is only a piece of the puzzle there and they need to make it more affordable and accessible (pace of play, course length/difficulty) to play as well which is an issue they don't seem interested in solving.

Golf was no more popular before Tiger than it is right now. It was more popular with Tiger because he brought a whole different audience to the sport. It'll lose some viewers, but I think it was wishful thinking to think it would be more than a niche sport after Tiger. I don't know about you, but I didn't become a fan of Tiger because he had such a great personality. I became a fan because i liked his golf. In fact, one of the big knocks on Tiger is often his personality.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

wow reading his wiki page, I'm surprised CHIII doesn't have more than 2 PGA victories.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This Murray guy really knows how to ruffle some feathers.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/responds-murray-dont-be-jealous

 

[Dr John Carlson]

There are definitely players who have benefited from OWGR leniency toward European/Asian/Japanese tours, but I think Murray and Kraft should actually do something on the PGA Tour rather than the Web.com Tour before they starting talking ****.

At least Kraft had a runner-up at Pebble in February. I doubt Murray's 6 MCs so far this year would gain him much OWGR ground on any of the international tours.

 

[KaylaJ]

Agree with others that they really should've just made those comments in private.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

This Murray guy does sound a bit ridiculous with all the stuff he is tweeting, but I don't see much of an issue with people voicing displeasure over OWGR point distributions. Everything offends someone these days.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He's kinda right, although he's not in a good position to be getting into those types of arguments with An and Pieters.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Nice 8 under 64 to open for Rickie in Houston.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I see that Patty is rounding into form at just the right time.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This Twspot guy on twitter claims he has been told Tiger's playing in the Masters.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

I see that Patty is rounding into form at just the right time.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/i...debt-vegas-bettor-billy-walters-documents-say

Federal prosecutors broke down a series of stock trades by Phil Mickelson in 2012 and identified an alleged $1.9 million debt related to sports gambling during the high-profile trial of Las Vegas businessman and renowned gambler William "Billy" Walters.

According to transcripts of Thursday's proceedings, the prosecution told the court that an independent business management firm, if called to testify, would say Mickelson was a client and that "records show that in July 2012 Mickelson owed a debt to William T. Walters, the defendant, related to sports gambling." The prosecution added that on Sept. 19, 2012, Mickelson "transferred $1,950,000" to Walters.

Mickelson is on the witness list for Walters' defense. Mickelson has said he will not be called as a witness in the case. Walters' lawyers told Judge Kevin Castel last week that Mickelson's counsel had informed them that the golfer would invoke his Fifth Amendment right, if called.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/i...debt-vegas-bettor-billy-walters-documents-say

Federal prosecutors broke down a series of stock trades by Phil Mickelson in 2012 and identified an alleged $1.9 million debt related to sports gambling during the high-profile trial of Las Vegas businessman and renowned gambler William "Billy" Walters.

According to transcripts of Thursday's proceedings, the prosecution told the court that an independent business management firm, if called to testify, would say Mickelson was a client and that "records show that in July 2012 Mickelson owed a debt to William T. Walters, the defendant, related to sports gambling." The prosecution added that on Sept. 19, 2012, Mickelson "transferred $1,950,000" to Walters.

Mickelson is on the witness list for Walters' defense. Mickelson has said he will not be called as a witness in the case. Walters' lawyers told Judge Kevin Castel last week that Mickelson's counsel had informed them that the golfer would invoke his Fifth Amendment right, if called.

This isn't exactly news.

Nothing will come of a couple million dollars of white collar crime for a wealthy professional athlete, regardless of whether he is the witness or defendant.

Rich people are evidently above the law.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Holy **** Sung Kang snapped. Follows his opening -7 with a -9.

Rickie 8 back before starting his second round.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The weather forecast looks awful for the weekend. I really hope thats the reason Jordan decided to have his worst round of the year by five shots. Otherwise, worrying going into the Masters.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

A couple things I want to respond to in Wobbl's and Pavel's posts but I'll leave that for a later time when I have some free time and am not completely exhausted.

In the meantime, inquiring minds would like to know if the EA sports PGA Tour franchise is dead?

They released the one Rory game that was poorly received and this will now be two years without another iteration. I'm kind of disappointed because in my opinion TW PGA Tour 14 was one of the best games in the franchise from a gameplay mechanic point of view. All that needed fixing was a more realistic simulation mode that dropped some of the arcady aspects and more courses.