Golf: All Purpose Golf Thread VI | 2017 PGA Tour Season: Here comes Cantlay!

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Jan 3, 2012
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The weather forecast looks awful for the weekend. I really hope thats the reason Jordan decided to have his worst round of the year by five shots. Otherwise, worrying going into the Masters.


Simple Explanation. Jordan wants to give the longest odds he can to his fans and supporters so they maximize winnings when they bet on him and he wins the Masters.

A couple things I want to respond to in Wobbl's and Pavel's posts but I'll leave that for a later time when I have some free time and am not completely exhausted.

In the meantime, inquiring minds would like to know if the EA sports PGA Tour franchise is dead?

They released the one Rory game that was poorly received and this will now be two years without another iteration. I'm kind of disappointed because in my opinion TW PGA Tour 14 was one of the best games in the franchise from a gameplay mechanic point of view. All that needed fixing was a more realistic simulation mode that dropped some of the arcady aspects and more courses.

I don't play the game so can't really comment on it directly. I play World Golf Tour online which is doing quite well, atleast I think. I would speculate that the EA's franchise is declining in sales along with the rest of the industry.
 

Hire Sather

He Is Our Star
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Tiger busting out his 'Not tournament ready" line.

He hasn't been tournament ready for years with how he's played.

What a shame. Just wish he and his people would stop lying...they assured everyone his back spasms were nothing and he's been out two months.

Wouldnt be surprised to see him announce another surgery.

I love Tiger and root for him, but the way he and his people handle the media aspects of his injuries is frustrating.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
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I love how he refuses to announce a timetable. He won't even tell people how far along in his recovery he is.

I think people are getting tired of his secretive bull-****. Not a word from him about when he might return. Same thing he did after he WD from that Dubai event.
 

Soliloquy of a Dogge

I love you, Boots
Aug 8, 2012
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Woof.

I vaguely recall somebody being sick and tired of Tiger's dog and pony show in this very thread a month or so ago before finally deciding enough was enough and refusing to waste any more time caring about the sideshow his career has become. Sad seeing a legendary career reduced to ashes and being remembered this way though.
 

PanthersPens62

Paul & Stanley
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Woof.

I vaguely recall somebody being sick and tired of Tiger's dog and pony show in this very thread a month or so ago before finally deciding enough was enough and refusing to waste any more time caring about the sideshow his career has become. Sad seeing a legendary career reduced to ashes and being remembered this way though.
I believe that was you! :naughty:

Just. Retire. Already.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
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Just when you think Rickie is overrated, he plays well. And just when you think he's good, he plays poorly.

Is anything going to change or will he play this way his whole career?
 

Soliloquy of a Dogge

I love you, Boots
Aug 8, 2012
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I believe that was you! :naughty:

Just. Retire. Already.

Right?

It's just bizarre at this point. Even if he does come back, his game isn't consistent or good enough to win tournaments. I can only imagine he'd be playing for his hubris.

At least in tennis our mutual rooting interest, Serena, is still going strong though PP62. Kinda concerned about her very limited playing schedule, I really wanted to go see her and Fed at IW this year :(
 

PanthersPens62

Paul & Stanley
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Right?

It's just bizarre at this point. Even if he does come back, his game isn't consistent or good enough to win tournaments. I can only imagine he'd be playing for his hubris.

At least in tennis our mutual rooting interest, Serena, is still going strong though PP62. Kinda concerned about her very limited playing schedule, I really wanted to go see her and Fed at IW this year :(
At this point I'm fine with her just playing majors. Can't let the body take too much physical toll.

As for Tiger, I can't in my wildest dreams imagine him even coming close to winning another tourney again
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
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Right?

It's just bizarre at this point. Even if he does come back, his game isn't consistent or good enough to win tournaments. I can only imagine he'd be playing for his hubris.

At least in tennis our mutual rooting interest, Serena, is still going strong though PP62. Kinda concerned about her very limited playing schedule, I really wanted to go see her and Fed at IW this year :(

Is it going to feel weird watching the Oilers in the playoffs? Oilers fans are usually more concerned with the draft this time of year. :laugh:
 
Jan 3, 2012
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Why would Tiger retire? There is no point in retiring in golf. Just stop entering events. If he announces retirement he will lose sponsorship dollars. Just make excuses and don't play and be defacto retired.
 

Soliloquy of a Dogge

I love you, Boots
Aug 8, 2012
40,873
5,512
San Diego, CA
At this point I'm fine with her just playing majors. Can't let the body take too much physical toll.

As for Tiger, I can't in my wildest dreams imagine him even coming close to winning another tourney again

Yeah, I have no problems with that. Especially if it keeps her playing another 2 or 3 years. Do think she needs warm-up events before the slams though as she can't afford to be rusty in early rounds.

Is it going to feel weird watching the Oilers in the playoffs? Oilers fans are usually more concerned with the draft this time of year. :laugh:

Absolutely bizarre... :laugh: I never thought they were gonna have as good a season as they're having.

My interest and fandom almost completely died in the organization during their decade of suck. If it weren't for the change in management and Drai + McDavid, they would've lost me as a fan.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
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Absolutely bizarre... :laugh: I never thought they were gonna have as good a season as they're having.

My interest and fandom almost completely died in the organization during their decade of suck. If it weren't for the change in management and Drai + McDavid, they would've lost me as a fan.

I hope we get a Battle of Alberta. That would be excellent. Those are the two teams I'm rooting for out West.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
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I came up with what I think is a very interesting way to compare the past two eras. If you don't care about stuff like this, just skip over my post. This is going to be a long post. I wanted to try to compare all the eras, but it won't work because the data for anything before the early 90's is off.

I was thinking what would be the best way to compare eras, and what makes sense to me is PGA Tour scoring average. Its split up into two categories, adjusted and actual. Adjusted accounts for the difficulty of courses, actual is the pure average. Adjusted is supposed to account for some players playing easier events and others playing harder events. On the other hand, one might say it all evens out over a year and its flawed to say its a better field just because less under par wins.

I would've liked to include Nicklaus, Palmer, Player, all those players in this, but scoring average in the 60's, 70's, 80's just doesn't match up well with the two most recent eras. So what I did was take the top two players from the previous era, Tiger and Phil, and I also added in what I guess is being known as the big four of this era, Dustin, Jason, Rory and Jordan. I only counted seasons where they were PGA Tour members. All of them had seasons where they played events but weren't members. I didn't want to include questionable data where they played some events when they were like 16 or 17 or played some events when they were really on the Web.com Tour or in college or only European Tour members, so I just decided on years they were PGA Tour members.

I also made two categories for Tiger because the second part of his career has not had many years where he even played the minimum # of events to qualify for the scoring title. I think of the other golfers, there was like one or two instances where the others didn't so I just counted all their seasons, and for Tiger I did a category of his full seasons and partial seasons, since I thought that was the easiest way to categorize it. I included 2017 in the data. We are three months in, the data isn't that much of a SSS at this point. Most of the players at the top of the 2017 list are the best players in the world.

This is what the data looked like when I cleaned it up. I have a spreadsheet of what it looks like with all the individual seasons marked down.

Tiger Woods:

Adjusted, Actual for full seasons: 68.560, 69.282
Adjusted, Actual for all seasons: 69.265, 69.930

Phil Mickelson:

Adjusted, Actual for all seasons: 69.960, 70.355

Dustin Johnson:

Adjusted, Actual for all seasons: 69.986, 70.24

Jason Day:

Adjusted, Actual for all seasons: 70.049, 70.219

Rory McIlroy:

Adjusted, Actual for all seasons: 69.412, 69.913

Jordan Spieth:

Adjusted, Actual for all seasons: 69.413, 69.426

Here are my data-based conclusions. I tried to keep this as neutral as possible.

1. Tiger's full season data is absolutely absurd. He's almost a full shot better than second place in adjusted scoring for his full seasons. To give you an indication of how much better he is than second place, the difference between his average full season scoring average and the average scoring average for the typical season of that margin is somewhere between the usual margin of first and around 5th in a season with a very good top player, and the difference between about 1st and 10th in a bunched up season. It shows just how much better at his best he was than anyone. Tiger was on another planet at his best. The current best for the most part are about as close to 7th or 8th best as they are to Tiger.

2. The individual season data is not included in that list, but Tiger had only two full seasons in his career where his adjusted scoring average was not lower than 69, and these were two of his first three full seasons. The worst full season of Tiger's career, his scoring average was within .050 of a stroke of the best season of Mickelson, Day and Johnson's careers.

3. With the Tiger great seasons comes the awful seasons that he's had the last 7 years. I'm not sure this is a great representation of Tiger's seasons, as some of these seasons he played very few rounds, but I thought this was the best way to represent it. I think for most of the golfers, the representation of their all time scoring average for all events in all seasons is probably very close to the average of all their seasons, but for Tiger, I think it may be a little off because in some of these seasons he played so few events. His career scoring average is probably right around 69. I've just thrown an unintentional alley-oop to Tiger jokes. Lets just keep this about golf.

4. Mickelson's career had no exceptional seasons. He was just very steady in his scoring averages. Not a steady golfer week to weak, but steady year to year. He's trailed off a little the last few years, but not that bad. He probably should've won since the 2013 Open. His stats the last few years are of a guy who has won on the PGA Tour since 2013.

5. Day and DJ have very similar stats. And their stats closely mirror Mickelson. His career stats are just ahead of their stats, but they are just entering their prime, so they could catch up. If you are looking for a career comparable for those two, Mickelson would not be a bad starting place. DJ has a slightly better adjusted scoring average than Day, but Day has a slightly better non-adjusted scoring average, meaning they are probably around the same level. Day has a slightly better best season than DJ.

6. If you are looking for the best of this current era, this is a two man run-away. Its Rory and its Jordan. Its exceptionally close though. Rory has an edge by .007 of a point in adjusted scoring average. That is so small that one good or bad tournament for either one could change that. On the contrary, Jordan has a much better non-adjusted scoring average. Jordan's adjusted and non-adjusted are just about the same. Rory's are not, and everyone else's are not. If you buy into strength of field mattering with the adjustment, the difference with this would be that Jordan plays about an average difficulty schedule, Rory and everyone else in this category play a tough schedule. Looking at it season by season, it does seem to be that this might be a SSS anomaly in Jordan's stats. He's only on his 5th season so skewing could definitely happen in his data, and his non-adjusted is way lower than his adjusted this season. Every other season so far, his adjusted has been notably lower than his non-adjusted, so this should probably correct itself eventually.

7. Rory's best seasons are surprisingly better than Jordan's best seasons. Most would think that all you hear about in the media is how Jordan's 2015 is one of the best ever, and that very well probably is the case, but one thing these stats do not account for is putting extra emphasis on majors that are normally put on them in debates about who's the best. While Rory's best seasons are a little better than Jordan's best seasons, Jordan has been more consistent from season to season.

8. As mentioned, this does not putter proper emphasis on majors. With this type of formula, Angel Cabrera would probably be some no name Web.com tour player, not a two time major Champion. This formula is more about season to season scoring, showing up every week you play and playing well. This formula does not account for DJ's major struggles or Day's major struggles, and it didn't account for Phil's major struggles that he had up until he won the 2004 Masters.

9. If you want to use this formula to predict success, Day and Johnson have both underperformed in majors. McIlroy and Spieth are hard to judge, as they are clearly a tier above the other three, but a few tiers below Tiger. Their stats are why I wanted to get stats from previous eras. I wanted to see where they would stack up to Nicklaus, Palmer, Player, Watson, as that would give a better barometer of the types of careers they could have. Comparing them to peak Tiger who was the most dominant player ever gets no one anywhere, they clearly are not at the level of peak Tiger.

10. So how would they all be ranked based on this formula?

1. Tiger-I don't need to explain this, even if you include all seasons, instead of full seasons.

big gap

2. Rory/Jordan-Flip a coin for now. Nearly identical.

gap

4. Mickelson/Day/Johnson-Another coin flip. Mickelson's career has already played out so maybe he gets a slight advantage as he had late career success that Day and Johnson are projected to have, but have not had yet, so its not a given. Between Day and Johnson, its even more of a coin flip. I wouldn't be able to statistically separate the two.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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6. If you are looking for the best of this current era, this is a two man run-away. Its Rory and its Jordan. Its exceptionally close though. Rory has an edge by .007 of a point in adjusted scoring average. That is so small that one good or bad tournament for either one could change that. On the contrary, Jordan has a much better non-adjusted scoring average. Jordan's adjusted and non-adjusted are just about the same. Rory's are not, and everyone else's are not. If you buy into strength of field mattering with the adjustment, the difference with this would be that Jordan plays about an average difficulty schedule, Rory and everyone else in this category play a tough schedule. Looking at it season by season, it does seem to be that this might be a SSS anomaly in Jordan's stats. He's only on his 5th season so skewing could definitely happen in his data, and his non-adjusted is way lower than his adjusted this season. Every other season so far, his adjusted has been notably lower than his non-adjusted, so this should probably correct itself eventually.

7. Rory's best seasons are surprisingly better than Jordan's best seasons. Most would think that all you hear about in the media is how Jordan's 2015 is one of the best ever, and that very well probably is the case, but one thing these stats do not account for is putting extra emphasis on majors that are normally put on them in debates about who's the best. While Rory's best seasons are a little better than Jordan's best seasons, Jordan has been more consistent from season to season.

8. As mentioned, this does not putter proper emphasis on majors. With this type of formula, Angel Cabrera would probably be some no name Web.com tour player, not a two time major Champion. This formula is more about season to season scoring, showing up every week you play and playing well. This formula does not account for DJ's major struggles or Day's major struggles, and it didn't account for Phil's major struggles that he had up until he won the 2004 Masters.

9. If you want to use this formula to predict success, Day and Johnson have both underperformed in majors. McIlroy and Spieth are hard to judge, as they are clearly a tier above the other three, but a few tiers below Tiger. Their stats are why I wanted to get stats from previous eras. I wanted to see where they would stack up to Nicklaus, Palmer, Player, Watson, as that would give a better barometer of the types of careers they could have. Comparing them to peak Tiger who was the most dominant player ever gets no one anywhere, they clearly are not at the level of peak Tiger.

Holy **** this is amazing. How long did this take you?

I think the bolded makes sense because if you look at Rory's career wins on PGA tour, he actually only has 3 wins that aren't majors, WGC or playoff events. And two of those wins are at Quail Hollow. Indicating he only really plays big PGA Tour events.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
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Holy **** this is amazing. How long did this take you?

I think the bolded makes sense because if you look at Rory's career wins on PGA tour, he actually only has 3 wins that aren't majors, WGC or playoff events. And two of those wins are at Quail Hollow. Indicating he only really plays big PGA Tour events.

I didn't do it all at once. I've been working on this for about a week, but maybe in total it took me three hours.

Its not perfect, as I really wanted data from the 60's, 70's and 80's, but I think its a good representation of the Tiger era and then the current one.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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I didn't do it all at once. I've been working on this for about a week, but maybe in total it took me three hours.

Its not perfect, as I really wanted data from the 60's, 70's and 80's, but I think its a good representation of the Tiger era and then the current one.

Hard to compare those eras though. Different equipment, fitness and health regime etc etc

Rickie collapsing. Shame.

Hoping Wie can make ANA interesting
 
Jan 3, 2012
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Yo Pavs,

Next Saturday is the Masters and BVB plays Bayern at 12:30pm EST.


Which to give more attention too? Leaders will tee off around half I'd think.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
59,707
26,405
New York
Yo Pavs,

Next Saturday is the Masters and BVB plays Bayern at 12:30pm EST.


Which to give more attention too? Leaders will tee off around half I'd think.

As I was saying yesterday in the German Football thread, I actually don't care that much about yesterday's derby or next weekend's game. I didn't even bother to wake up in time for the first half. I missed most of yesterday's match. UCL or bust this season, as the league is already gone. Cup would be nice, thats the game against Bavaria I'd prefer to win. We pretty much are almost in the UCL for next season, so the league games really don't matter to me.

I've already gotten this mapped out. I plan way ahead with everything. :laugh: TV Coverage for the Masters starts at 3PM Saturday, Sunday its at 2, the Dortmund match should be over by like 2:30, so its really not a problem. The 3rd to last group usually tees off at 2:30, 2nd to last 2:40, last 2:50, so its not a problem as long as Jordan is in one of those three groups. I don't even know if I'll watch the Dortmund game, I might watch the Rangers game, which is at 12:30, also.

I gotta make sure I get all my work done early, so I don't have to do any next weekend. But I also have the following Monday and Tuesday off because I think its some Jewish holiday early that week. These holidays never line up with full days getting cancelled for me, its usually just like one class, but this year, it works out perfectly with my schedule, and I get all of Monday and Tuesday off.
 
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Jan 3, 2012
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As I was saying yesterday in the German Football thread, I actually don't care that much about yesterday's derby or next weekend's game. I didn't even bother to wake up in time for the first half. I missed most of yesterday's match. UCL or bust this season, as the league is already gone. Cup would be nice, thats the game against Bavaria I'd prefer to win. We pretty much are almost in the UCL for next season, so the league games really don't matter to me.

I've already gotten this mapped out. I plan way ahead with everything. :laugh: TV Coverage for the Masters starts at 3PM Saturday, Sunday its at 2, the Dortmund match should be over by like 2:30, so its really not a problem. The 3rd to last group usually tees off at 2:30, 2nd to last 2:40, last 2:50, so its not a problem as long as Jordan is in one of those three groups. I don't even know if I'll watch the Dortmund game, I might watch the Rangers game, which is at 12:30, also.

I gotta make sure I get all my work done early, so I don't have to do any next weekend. But I also have the following Monday and Tuesday off because I think its some Jewish holiday early that week. These holidays never line up with full days getting cancelled for me, its usually just like one class, but this year, it works out perfectly with my schedule, and I get all of Monday and Tuesday off.

Yeah I don't wake up for most 9:30am est games. Too early. I caught the last twenty of yesterdays. But Bayern is Bayern and usually when we play them it is really good back and forth exciting counter games, which is why it is ideal to watch.

I have exams Thursday at 8:30 and Friday at 12:30 but after that I can just watch all weekend which is nice. Hopefully some good HD streams are around.

I don't watch any hockey really anymore. Not that interesting. I follow the standings, and may watch the finals. Would rather watch basketball tbh.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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What a ****ing joke

are you kidding me

Ok so she accidently moved the ball .5 inches on a 2 foot putt. So she loses the tournament on a 4 stroke penalty

what a god damn farce.

And the penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard is ridic and should be done away with.
 
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