OT: All-Purpose Expos Return Speculation Topic -- Part Deux

[HuGort]

Last week was Expos week on 690. Good interviews , Ross Grimsley, Dave Van Horne, Claude Raymond. In case any Expos fans out there.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Last week was Expos week on 690. Good interviews , Ross Grimsley, Dave Van Horne, Claude Raymond. In case any Expos fans out there.

There’s still a few of us around. I was lucky enough to have been at Jarry Park when Gary Carter hit his first career home run. I went to the game with my late mother who was a huge Montreal Royals fan. I remember telling her at the time that Carter had a chance of being the first home grown Expo player to make the Hall of Fame. Good times. Good memories of a much simpler time.

 

[HuGort]

There’s still a few of us around. I was lucky enough to have been at Jarry Park when Gary Carter hit his first career home run. I went to the game with my late mother who was a huge Montreal Royals fan. I remember telling her at the time that Carter had a chance of being the first home grown Expo player to make the Hall of Fame. Good times. Good memories of a much simpler time.

Yup, you know what tomorrow is?

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

It's sad that this town lost such a historical sports franchise. They may have not won a World Series, but they came pretty close to it.

Seeing these players signing deals now for close to a billion, makes it virtually impossible for a return. The city's representatives have other priorities, including converting majour streets into bike paths, but let's not get into that political debate here.

This team could have been saved, if all parties involved made such a commitment. It's clear to me that back then, nobody cared. Self determination of the province and language debates were taking center stage. Also, all this commotion was responsible for the Nordiques' demise. In the end, this just facilitated the purchase of the Jays by Rogers, which saved them from a possible relocation down South. I may have offended some, but you all have yourselves to blame. We all now dream and reminisce of what he had.

Let's just hope we can hold on to the Impact or whatever it's called right now indefinately.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

It's a real shame there isn't a true big money bid in place. The MLB is looking to move a couple teams in the worst way right now, the timing would have been real perfect. An MLSE type structure would be a license to print money in Montreal if someone could put it all together.

 

[HuGort]

It's sad that this town lost such a historical sports franchise. They may have not won a World Series, but they came pretty close to it.

Seeing these players signing deals now for close to a billion, makes it virtually impossible for a return. The city's representatives have other priorities, including converting majour streets into bike paths, but let's not get into that political debate here.

This team could have been saved, if all parties involved made such a commitment. It's clear to me that back then, nobody cared. Self determination of the province and language debates were taking center stage. Also, all this commotion was responsible for the Nordiques' demise. In the end, this just facilitated the purchase of the Jays by Rogers, which saved them from a possible relocation down South. I may have offended some, but you all have yourselves to blame. We all now dream and reminisce of what he had.

Let's just hope we can hold on to the Impact or whatever it's called right now indefinately.

Expos were lost over 10 million dollars back in 1994. The year Expos were on pace for 110 wins. Cancellation of season and lost playoff revenue was expected to be 16 million.

When baseball resumed, in 1995, the Expos discarded 4 players. Larry Walker, Grissom, Ken Hill and John Wettleland. They made 10 million that year.

If there had been a playoff in 94, and that team stayed together no doubt there would have been a Labatt Park in 1998. Instead Brouhu sold the team to Loria. Who sealed the Expos fate

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Expos were lost over 10 million dollars back in 1994. The year Expos were on pace for 110 wins. Cancellation of season and lost playoff revenue was expected to be 16 million.

When baseball resumed, in 1995, the Expos discarded 4 players. Larry Walker, Grissom, Ken Hill and John Wettleland. They made 10 million that year.

If there had been a playoff in 94, and that team stayed together no doubt there would have been a Labatt Park in 1998. Instead Brouhu sold the team to Loria. Who sealed the Expos fate

It's easy to blame Brochu, the strike and the losses. Brochu asked for help from the provincial government, but received none. Instead, the government had other priorities, independence. Again, no need to start a heated political debate over the matter. When you look back, 10 million is peanuts nowadays, independence was never achieved. Now we can cry about the Expos leaving all night. In the end, we are the voters and elect governments.

The government surely stepped in to block the sale of Videotron to Rogers. Those 250 million from our taxes were given to Rogers as penalty for them to buy the Jays.

 

[HuGort]

It's easy to blame Brochu, the strike and the losses. Brochu asked for help from the provincial government, but received none. Instead, the government had other priorities, independence. Again, no need to start a heated political debate over the matter. When you look back, 10 million is peanuts nowadays, independence was never achieved. Now we can cry about the Expos leaving all night. In the end, we are the voters and elect governments.

The government surely stepped in to block the sale of Videotron to Rogers. Those 250 million from our taxes were given to Rogers as penalty for them to buy the Jays.

All that wouldn't of happened though if they kept '94 team together. Been a successful team well into late 90s. A few playoff series would have kept that team together until revenue sharing and then tv money. Labatt Park would have came into being. Federal govt had already gave the team a piece of land downtown

Expos '94 were one of best teams ever formed. They had a .650% winning percentage. A .600% winning percentage in baseball is considered outstanding. Larry Walker was a sure-fire hall of famer he wasn't even offered a contract.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

It's easy to blame Brochu, the strike and the losses. Brochu asked for help from the provincial government, but received none. Instead, the government had other priorities, independence. Again, no need to start a heated political debate over the matter. When you look back, 10 million is peanuts nowadays, independence was never achieved. Now we can cry about the Expos leaving all night. In the end, we are the voters and elect governments.

The government surely stepped in to block the sale of Videotron to Rogers. Those 250 million from our taxes were given to Rogers as penalty for them to buy the Jays.

As they say: people deserve the government they have.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

All that wouldn't of happened though if they kept '94 team together. Been a successful team well into late 90s. A few playoff series would have kept that team together until revenue sharing and then tv money. Labatt Park would have came into being. Federal govt had already gave the team a piece of land downtown

Expos '94 were one of best teams ever formed. They had a .650% winning percentage. A .600% winning percentage in baseball is considered outstanding. Larry Walker was a sure-fire hall of famer he wasn't even offered a contract.

I'm sorry I have to disagree. Yes, they made some questionnable moves, but they asked help from the province and received nothing, or very little. Yes, the federal government gave them land, but ultimately Brochu and the other stakeholders wanted out. No other local investors showed up. The issue became a hot potato for baseball. The province did absolutely nothing, nor the city. The federal government did its part though. The Nordiques received little provincial aid, and that also sealed their fate. Yes, Brochu can be pointed the finger for a lot of things, but you need to understand that he was looking for solutions.

The province was more focused on acheiving independence, language debates and the backlash from the referendum that followed. It took a good decade for things to settle down, but the team was already gone. Even with the current government, the language issue came back.

The Habs were horrible throughout the 90s and eventually sold to an American. All parties rushed to save them and keep them put. Nobody cared about the Expos, plain and simple. They were drawing 5000 fans per game at most the last few years. There was plenty of time to do something though and MLB tried. The proof was that they still kept the team alive for 9 more years, but no one wanted to purchase them. The players vetoed the contraction plan, so MLB had no other choice.

The Habs have started a recent firesale and were doing the same in the 90s, yet the fanbase never dwindled. Can Montreal support another MLB franchise? The answer is no. If you expect a team to be a contender year after year, to go see their games, then you're a classic bandwagon fan. There is no die hard fanbase. Montreal is Habsland and all other franchises will be eclipsed or doomed.

Let's support the Impact because their days seem numbered too. As for the Als, pretty sure the CFL will do everything to keep them put. The Expos were terrible at marketing and didn't appeal to all the french fanbase. Had they drafted local players and put more effort into developping a Quebec elite junior baseball program, we would probably still have a team. There are simply no local investors, particularly french, that are interested by the mere thought of baseball. Coderre got Bronfman again to talk about an eventual return, but we all knew it was just a smokescreen.

The provincial government has also learned after the PKP fiasco not to partner with individual greedy billionaires no more. However, bringing back the Expos and Nordiques would require a huge provincial commitment and investment, because local billionaires are afraid to throw money away for a non existant fanbase. Unfortunately, that 10 million that was required to save the Nordiques or Expos back then, now carries a price tag of 500 million + to revive both franchises. So, let's not make the same mistake with our soccer club.

It all boils down to this, sport fanchises are owned by the rich and small markets cannot support these teams. Asking local governments to intervene is always a touchy subject, because it involves tax payer money. The Packers were saved because the local populace found an ingenious way. Looking back at that 10 million dollar investment to keep the team alive, seems nothing today. However, 370 million thrown away for an arena with no NHL franchise seems like a waste.

 

[HuGort]

I'm sorry I have to disagree. Yes, they made some questionnable moves, but they asked help from the province and received nothing, or very little. Yes, the federal government gave them land, but ultimately Brochu and the other stakeholders wanted out. No other local investors showed up. The issue became a hot potato for baseball. The province did absolutely nothing, nor the city. The federal government did its part though. The Nordiques received little provincial aid, and that also sealed their fate. Yes, Brochu can be pointed the finger for a lot of things, but you need to understand that he was looking for solutions.

The province was more focused on acheiving independence, language debates and the backlash from the referendum that followed. It took a good decade for things to settle down, but the team was already gone. Even with the current government, the language issue came back.

The Habs were horrible throughout the 90s and eventually sold to an American. All parties rushed to save them and keep them put. Nobody cared about the Expos, plain and simple. They were drawing 5000 fans per game at most the last few years. There was plenty of time to do something though and MLB tried. The proof was that they still kept the team alive for 9 more years, but no one wanted to purchase them. The players vetoed the contraction plan, so MLB had no other choice.

The Habs have started a recent firesale and were doing the same in the 90s, yet the fanbase never dwindled. Can Montreal support another MLB franchise? The answer is no. If you expect a team to be a contender year after year, to go see their games, then you're a classic bandwagon fan. There is no die hard fanbase. Montreal is Habsland and all other franchises will be eclipsed or doomed.

Let's support the Impact because their days seem numbered too. As for the Als, pretty sure the CFL will do everything to keep them put. The Expos were terrible at marketing and didn't appeal to all the french fanbase. Had they drafted local players and put more effort into developping a Quebec elite junior baseball program, we would probably still have a team. There are simply no local investors, particularly french, that are interested by the mere thought of baseball. Coderre got Bronfman again to talk about an eventual return, but we all knew it was just a smokescreen.

The provincial government has also learned after the PKP fiasco not to partner with individual greedy billionaires no more. However, bringing back the Expos and Nordiques would require a huge provincial commitment and investment, because local billionaires are afraid to throw money away for a non existant fanbase. Unfortunately, that 10 million that was required to save the Nordiques or Expos back then, now carries a price tag of 500 million + to revive both franchises. So, let's not make the same mistake with our soccer club.

It all boils down to this, sport fanchises are owned by the rich and small markets cannot support these teams. Asking local governments to intervene is always a touchy subject, because it involves tax payer money. The Packers were saved because the local populace found an ingenious way. Looking back at that 10 million dollar investment to keep the team alive, seems nothing today. However, 370 million thrown away for an arena with no NHL franchise seems like a waste.

Brochu and his group gave up on team because Quebec govt wouldn't help. Federal govt did but Provincial wouldn't. Bouchard said they wouldn't spend their money to employ a couple dozen Americans. Obviously he never had the vision. For each team gets 66 million a year alone from league tv contract. That's not counting local tv contracts. Before that the Blue Jays survived the 90s on revenue sharing.

But all that wouldn't occured if not for cancelled '94 team and missed revenue. That team was not only good, but young. Added 16 million a year in extra revenue would have kept team afloat. Been no Loria. A downtown stadium would make Expos a mid market team today.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Brochu and his group gave up on team because Quebec govt wouldn't help. Federal govt did but Provincial wouldn't. Bouchard said they wouldn't spend their money to employ a couple dozen Americans. Obviously he never had the vision. For each team gets 66 million a year alone from league tv contract. That's not counting local tv contracts. Before that the Blue Jays survived the 90s on revenue sharing.

But all that wouldn't occured if not for cancelled '94 team and missed revenue. That team was not only good, but young. Added 16 million a year in extra revenue would have kept team afloat. Been no Loria. A downtown stadium would make Expos a mid market team today.

You are rephrasing what I have stated numerous times.....but you are still ignoring the real issue. Had their been a die hard fanbase averaging more than 10 000 per game, the team would still be around, because local investors would have bought them.

Our tax money saved the Jays, plain and simple.

 

[BLONG7]

Brochu/Loria/Samson/MLB all had blood on their hands..................still sad all these years later.
It hurts to think what they all did to our favorite MLB team.
I was just a kid growing up loving the Expos.............amazing talent aquired through drafting and development.....what an organization of baseball minds....................all for nothing.

Greed and Money..............sad. So so many things went wrong.

 

[JianYang]

The government probably didn't like the optics of funding the expos especially since they were still having to sink so much money into the Big O.

Speaking of the big O, did they ever end up using the supposed retractable roof during a game.... And does anyone remember it without the roof? I just wonder how it felt. I just saw the concept of how the roof was supposed to work, and I've never seen anything like it, lol.

I assume it was a similar feeling to bc place where it feels more like opening the sunroof of a car than being outside.

 

[RC51]

I dont want ANY baseball in MTL and not ONE dime spent on ANYTHING , UNTIL, MLB brings in a total CAP on all teams and a CAP that all teams can live with and not a fake that would give the rich teams a 10 billion cap and its not my fault if you cant afford a 10 billion dollar cap ALL BULL SHIIIIT CAP.
Every baseball team should accept a cap that ALL teams can afford. A cap accepted by ALL TEAMS not just a 50%+1. ALL TEAMS SIGN ON or 100% sign on.

 

[BLONG7]

I dont want ANY baseball in MTL and not ONE dime spent on ANYTHING , UNTIL, MLB brings in a total CAP on all teams and a CAP that all teams can live with and not a fake that would give the rich teams a 10 billion cap and its not my fault if you cant afford a 10 billion dollar cap ALL BULL SHIIIIT CAP.
Every baseball team should accept a cap that ALL teams can afford. A cap accepted by ALL TEAMS not just a 50%+1. ALL TEAMS SIGN ON or 100% sign on.

Agreed..................and it's coming. They will lose at least a half a season, and more likely a full season to get their greedy union and agents to understand the whole concept.

When I hear thugs like Scott Boras call teams a cancer to the game, who use their welfare money to make their scouting and minor league systems better, rather than give it to a free agent, it makes my blood boil.

Guys like Scott Boras, ARE the cancer.

Are MLB the only major sport without a hard cap? I think they are...............hope they lose a full season and never get that money back.

 

[Runner77]

Agreed..................and it's coming. They will lose at least a half a season, and more likely a full season to get their greedy union and agents to understand the whole concept.

When I hear thugs like Scott Boras call teams a cancer to the game, who use their welfare money to make their scouting and minor league systems better, rather than give it to a free agent, it makes my blood boil.

Guys like Scott Boras, ARE the cancer.

Are MLB the only major sport without a hard cap? I think they are...............hope they lose a full season and never get that money back.

Reading this article about the Mets’ potential payroll more than did it for me. Just look at these salaries. Of course, the chump fan will be paying for it one way or the other. I don’t want a team either unless and until MLB puts its financial house in order.

How Mets’ 2023 payroll could skyrocket to $345 million

For the Mets to return intact a team that is steamrolling toward the franchise’s first postseason appearance in six years, it will not be cheap.

nypost.com

 

[GrandBison]

The government probably didn't like the optics of funding the expos especially since they were still having to sink so much money into the Big O.

Speaking of the big O, did they ever end up using the supposed retractable roof during a game.... And does anyone remember it without the roof? I just wonder how it felt. I just saw the concept of how the roof was supposed to work, and I've never seen anything like it, lol.

I assume it was a similar feeling to bc place where it feels more like opening the sunroof of a car than being outside.

It was quite a process to open the roof,, but at some point in the 90, there was no roof at all and you're right, the feeling was being inside with some big shade demarcations.

 

[GrandBison]

And for you baseball fans: les Aigles de Trois-Rivières, 1h30 from Montreal, good caliber (Frontier League is Equivalent to A+), very nice old school stadium... and you can cheer against Québec City and Ottawa!

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Brochu/Loria/Samson/MLB all had blood on their hands..................still sad all these years later.
It hurts to think what they all did to our favorite MLB team.
I was just a kid growing up loving the Expos.............amazing talent aquired through drafting and development.....what an organization of baseball minds....................all for nothing.

Greed and Money..............sad. So so many things went wrong.

That's how most companies are run, all about profits. MLB is a company and making revenue is their sole purpose. "Well, nobody was going to see the games because they sold assets for free". I find this statement quite perplexing and just emphasizes the fact that there was never really a solid baseball following in this town. Had there been a fanbase, local investors may have kept the team alive. No local buyers, no one interested to save the team, including provincial and city officials. Then came a greedy sketchy owner who manipulated MLB, and managed to purchase the Marlins down the road. MLB tried to find local investors, but none showed up. A group from Washington jumped on the occasion. The rest is history. Three things went wrong: no political interest or commitment, no fanbase and no investors. Let's stop blaming others and learn our lessons. The Habs traded Roy and their captain for nothing, yet the team never lost its loyal crowd. And that makes a huge difference.

 

[BLONG7]

Reading this article about the Mets’ potential payroll more than did it for me. Just look at these salaries. Of course, the chump fan will be paying for it one way or the other. I don’t want a team either unless and until MLB puts its financial house in order.

How Mets’ 2023 payroll could skyrocket to $345 million

For the Mets to return intact a team that is steamrolling toward the franchise’s first postseason appearance in six years, it will not be cheap.

nypost.com

Wow.............................just wow.
Sickening....WTF is wrong with these guys. MLB are definitely heading for a year off, real soon.
When is the MLB current labour agreement up?

 

[BLONG7]

That's how most companies are run, all about profits. MLB is a company and making revenue is their sole purpose. "Well, nobody was going to see the games because they sold assets for free". I find this statement quite perplexing and just emphasizes the fact that there was never really a solid baseball following in this town. Had there been a fanbase, local investors may have kept the team alive. No local buyers, no one interested to save the team, including provincial and city officials. Then came a greedy sketchy owner who manipulated MLB, and managed to purchase the Marlins down the road. MLB tried to find local investors, but none showed up. A group from Washington jumped on the occasion. The rest is history. Three things went wrong: no political interest or commitment, no fanbase and no investors. Let's stop blaming others and learn our lessons. The Habs traded Roy and their captain for nothing, yet the team never lost its loyal crowd. And that makes a huge difference.

Some good points, but mine was there was a group of individuals who just were not interested in doing something to help the Expos, for their personal gain, but you make some great points also..............there were a ton of reasons it didn't work.
Wishing the Bronfmans had never sold the team, and who knows what could have happened.

 

[Runner77]

I’m no longer following baseball day-to-day but this story about the son of ex-Expo Fernando Fatis, makes me happy I don’t: Fernando Tatis Jr. offers ridiculous lie as sad excuse for being a PED cheat

Fatis Jr. is both a cheat and a liar and the idiot Pads committed $341 Million to this poor excuse of a human being. He thinks he’s smarter than everyone however he was cunning enough to fool the Pads, I’ll give him that.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

If someone in Quebec, would have been smart enough to buy the Expos, for dirt cheap back then, he would have made a lot of money, just by today's value of a major league franchise.

Unfortunately, due to the political instability and uncertain future of the province at the time, no local investor was willing to shove money into them.

Had the provincial government given a loan to Brochu, the team may have been saved. There was really no fanbase and any smart person would have stayed away, you would be selling at a loss. It would also be extremely difficult to sustain current player salaries without a solid fanbase. Loria managed to cunn MLB unfortunately and purchase the Marlins instead. He managed to acquire 93% ownership overnight, because the other stakeholders didn't care and just handed him their shares for free.

 

[HuGort]

You are rephrasing what I have stated numerous times.....but you are still ignoring the real issue. Had their been a die hard fanbase averaging more than 10 000 per game, the team would still be around, because local investors would have bought them.

Our tax money saved the Jays, plain and simple.

You're wrong on both counts! Emphasis isn't solely on ticket sales. National tv money is huge. Not to mention big local and Canada wide tv money.

Plus, Expos did have a die hard fan base. If you put decent place to play and decent product on field they will support the team. To prove it the Expos averaged 2.3 million fans a year for 5 straight years. From 1979-1983. One of best draws in baseball.

Put a shitty team on field in run down stadium with owner like Loria or Brochu then no.